So stupid! Quote directly from the Osage Nation web site: "Through conditions set in treaties, the Osage Tribe was able to obtain the mineral rights to all of what is now Osage County." It was two Acts of Congress approved June 5, 1872 and March 3, 1873 that authorized the purchase of the Osage reservation from the Cherokee, not a treaty. The Tribe has the mineral rights because it has a deed to the Osage reservation in trust with the United States of America. When the reservation was partitioned among the individual Osages, the mineral rights were reserved to the Osage Tribe by the 1906 Allotment Act as an ownership right tracking right back to the property deed itself in the chain of title. Sheesh. Not even the Osage Nation knows what is has and how it has come to have it. Abysmal!
If they don't even know what's what about the mineral rights how are they ever going to establish their claim on the water rights? Then they want to pick another fight with the State, like they did over the taxes, with this legislation for a water engineer office that will set up the conditions to provoke getting back into Court with the State of Oklahoma over water rights? Oh Lord! Does it ever end with these government plebeian neophytes?
They have a new bill, ONCA 14-23, to give $125K for the Attorney General’s office for water rights work. If the minerals estate is going to suffer diminishment for what happens with this water issue just like they did with the tax reservation lawsuit that robbed us of our Federal Reservation status, this matter should come under the umbrella of the Minerals Council to oversee and manage not the crazed idiots of the Osage Nation.
Did you see the debates when Standing Bear was at the podium? The highlights are reviewed at>>> http://osagenews.org/article/osage-principal-chief-candidates-answer-debate-questions-public (truncated version not the entire transcript) Words like "war" and "under attack" are always an emotional issue with men and we all know how well they handle emotions when push comes to shove.
Don't we have prairie chickens on thw wind farm. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/28/critics-cry-foul-as-feds-place-lesser-prairie-chicken-on-threatened-species/
Chief Osageblogger with Black Pencil, you can have the Greater Prairie Chicken"Tympanuchus cupido, for the unofficial Grouse of the Osage Shareholders. So, us Non-Osage Shareholders will be left to choose as our unofficial grouse the Lesser Prairie Chicken since both maybe on this Endangered List. Acting Chief of the Non-Osage Shareholders Homer F.
Not Chief Osageblogger with the eraser but with all that's gone before and as angry as I've been about some of it, don't think I haven't thought about running. Fortunately, the cooler part of my head prevailed. Service is what we are all about here on the Osage Blog and to get the word out about what is taking place in the Osage so as to provide the ability for those affected by it to be able to react immediately and respond to it openly and honestly. (On topic and no diatribes, please!)
Dear Not Chief Osageblogger with Eraser, Guess it all started many years or moons ago. The warring warriors of different American Indian Tribes killed off some of the strongest,bravest and leaving only a few real talented members. But, along came the US Cavalry to finish off the rest. Sure not all became Post Indians, some and probably more per cap then any other tribe , the Osage did educate their children to become professionals. There was a Hope in this old blogger heart that this one person that I guess I've been reading on blogs for several years would run for Mineral Council. Even if the main reason I'm around , that person apparently is on the opposite side, but you sometimes can reap more by saving then by spending and I believe most of us Non-Osage Shareholders will join you Osage Shareholders, that to say that is true. I'm sorry to say things us humans have no control over, that gets in our plans. Maybe, between how and closing a westward wind will blow down from the mountains, a wise candidate, a person for all seasons, a person that knows the value of a dime and a million. So, in closing Not Chief Osageblogger, I've felt your angry, closing with a quote from Lincoln once said of Congress Conness"that he " is habitually careful not to say what he does not know," and described him on another occasion as " one of our United States Senators, of high standing, whom I cheerfully indorse. One more day, and someone's missing in the Osage Mineral Council race. H
H, is this person you speak of in the past or present blogger? And you said though this person is contrary to your views why would want someone sitting on the council if that were the case? And if you could describe this person or blogger in one word what word would you use to describe this blogger. Just curious. Thanks Homer. Appreciate your writing techniques and would love to sit with you one day and talk.
You, may remember the " Florescene " no matter what that person wrote I'd just thought that was just about as close to right as it could be except of one. A orchid can bloom a flower but so can eventually a 100 year cactus. Differently the past, for I have missed the trade mark ... between words or sentences, but I had warned that that could have been traced way back for good I believed. Do think our ancestors have had one on one talks, and you know my score on being right . H
From the Osage News Facebook page, a notification reads, "The Filing deadline for Osage Minerals Council candidates is 5 p.m., April 7. So, apparently this deadline has been extended out from the 31st of March.
The deadline to file to run for Osage Nation Congress is today, March 31, 2014 at 4:30 P.M.:
FROM THE OSAGE NATION ELECTION OFFICE REGARDING THE CONGRESSIONAL RACE: If you are wishing to file for candidacy please remember to bring the following with you:
1. Cashier's Check/Money Order made out to Osage Nation Election Office. Filing Fees are $300 for Congress. No personal checks or cash will be accepted.
2. Osage Nation Membership Card.
3. Driver's License
4. Proof of a separate bank account in the name of the candidate or the candidate's campaign.
To request filing forms please e-mail electionoffice@osagetribe.org or call 918-287-5286.
The list of General Election Candidates for 2014: 1. Alice Buffalohead 2. Dr. Ron Shaw 3. Otto Hamilton 4. Michael Kidder 5. Tony Whitehorn 6. Clair Wood 7. Doug Cowan 8. Homer Troy Big Eagle 9. Daniel Boone 10. Angela Marie Pratt 11. William “Kugee” Supernaw 12. James "Jim" Norris 13. Beverly Brownfield 14. Teresa Bates Rutherford 15. W. Jacque Jones 16. Justin Mays 17. John Starr Bighorse 18. Richard Luttrell 19. John Free 20. Joe Conner 21. Cecelia Tallchief
See the list as of yesterday, 3-31-14 at http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/what-we-do/elections/filing-for-candidacy and click on the text, 2014 General Election Filed Candidates.
The 2014 Hun-Kah Session of the Osage Nation Congress has begun today. For information about this session see: http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/congress-legislative-branch/sessions http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/congress-legislative-branch/committee-information http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/congress-legislative-branch/legislation http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/congress-legislative-branch
Hey Denver! The Osage News Facebook page is reporting that Osage Minerals Council candidate Melvin Core will have a meet and greet at Osage-owned Tocabe Restaurant in Denver, Colo., on April 12 from 5-7 p.m. Dinner will be included at the event. Tocabe is located at 3536 W. 44th Ave. Please RSVP with Melvin's daughter, Leslie Core-Drevecky at sonnerlcd@yahoo.com or by phone: 303-375-9428. Also, for upcoming events, see http://osagenews.org/events
"There is no sensible reason why money could not be allocated to protect Osage headright shareholders’ rights with no strings attached." The hell you say, Geoffrey. You selfish self-centered opportunist!!!!!! When have you ever done a damn thing for non-Headright owners who are neither young or old? Where do you get off trying to appropriate Osage Nation money for the mineral estate when you have never put forward a bill as a member of the Osage Congress to help anyone but those who you live around and rub elbows with? You've got one a hell of a nerve. Before you start handing out to the cash for the Mineral Estate benefit, YOU GET A PER-CAP OUT TO THOSE MEMBERS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY WHO REALLY NEED IT! Can't you all see through the act this guy has had going for 20 some-odd-years or more? He could care less about anyone who isn't in his immediate circle. It will amount to a travesty well beyond that of what Jim Gray pulled if this guy gets elected and and it'll be just as bad if that Gray woman gets into office as well. What a horrible mess this new government has amounted to since it started out.
Guess the Elections Bureau guidelines eliminates any write ins votes ?? Since I've received no opposition in the Chief of the Non-Osage Shareholders, and have won that seat by acclamation. So, with 4000 Non-Osage Shareholders under our wing, believe if you choosing a satellite party that won't get under their skin think again. That could become 14,000 Non-Osage, Non-Shareholder, count noses then, and out of this group will step forward my replacement to forge what's right for all without pain, financial hardships and segregation. Chief of the Non-Osage Shareholders Homer Fincannon Non-OsageShareholders.com
Get that Per-Cap out. Stop the GOVERNMENT Bloat! It's not their money it is yours you decide not them, wake up ask yourselves why hasn't the ONG put this issue on the ballot before another 20 yrs of spending is committed?
Topic: Mismanagement of the Trust department in the Tribal Minerals Council. There was a time last year that the Trust department had someone in charge who was taking Trust related documents and "stuffing them in a drawer". My nephew and I were both told there was a period of employee turnover and a back log of processing Trust documents from different people in our many phone calls. One of those, "you didn't hear it from me but...." But I've learn of the larger issue from a person who would absolutely know the workings of that department. I apologize that I cannot divulge that person's name as it wouldn't be fair to him/her. My brother died in February. Last Fall, he had told his family members that he changed his Trust by removing his estranged wife as the beneficiary and adding his son. Probate only has the original Trust. Nobody is owning up to what has really happened in the Trust department. They, of course, will not admit to the possibility that, given the total mismanagement from the person in charge at the time and the complete break in the process of creating and amending our Trusts, that my brother's amendment is lost, misplaced, trashed, who knows. I've spoken with clerks in that department, the field solicitor, and probate. We have a ton of what I suppose is circumstantial evidence that my brother changed his Trust. And of course we are challening the original document but I fear our challenge will not be given merit because they want to keep a lid on what really happened. In a court of law such incompetance would very likely favor the opposing side.I am wondering if my family is the first family affected from the fallout. My brother amended his Trust around the Sept-Oct, possibly November timeframe. At the time we didn't know we should have paid closer attention to actual dates conversations took place. Who would have thought a person in such an important position would be mishandling Trust documents?
Took 2 years for trust to be paid out untill we threatened a law suit. This trust was updated in the 80's when my father was going into bypass surgery. They with held 160,000. Sorry you need to get a lawyer this is not the first time this has happened.
I have also heard very recently that the girls hired there to handle the trusts are taking personal phone calls, playing games on their computers and filing their fingernails instead of doing their work on the trusts which include trusts in probate, new trusts and any amendments to previously drawn up trusts. At one point, about a year ago and this may still be true today, they were backlogged 60 trusts in probate and who knows what has happened to the new or amended trusts that were in the in-box. I also heard that once everything has been handled in Oklahoma and the probate documents are transferred to Albuquerque, it takes less than a month to finish up the process at that level. There is no reason that it should take more than three months worse case for everything to be gotten ready to send on to Albuquerque. Melvin Core and Myron Red Eagle are in charge of who is hired to work on these trusts. If you aren't satisfied with not having competent, trained, efficient employees with a paralegal education or background to handle these trust estates for you as a Shareholder, you know what to do in June when you vote for the members of the Mineral Council.
Hey, I wrote the original. No, nobody witnessed the the update. My two brothers and I inherited our grandparents home. We are selling it for developement. Last November we thought we had a possible buyer. My brother that died recently had been separated from his wife since July '13. He and I discussed the situation of selling the land and him needing to get the divorce going if he didn't want "S" to receive any of that $. He said he'd get it started and he said he already took care of his Trust...changing it to his son. "That part's done" is what he said. And he did get the divorce started...we have proof of the phone calls and money receipts from the attorney office. I have no reason to not believe what he told me. He and my dad took a trip to Michigan T-giving weekend. They discussed the land and the Trust. He told my dad he had already taken care of the Trust. He also told my other brother that it was done. He explained to my neice-in-law why he put their kids as the 2nd benefactor, skipping her. He had already asked for their SSN's for the paperwork before that convo. He told my nephew and niece-in-law that there would be a 30 challenge period because of the change. I'm sure this is a story told a thousand times..."he told me." Why would someone who texts his estranged wife to stop using his last name in October lie to his family about changing his Trust? She posted this tidbit on her Facebook. My nephew turned off his phone shortly after my brother died so we can only access phone and text msgs back to December. If we could access his records and look for the phone numbers, we could prove...or not prove I suppose...that he called that office. The Trust department is supposed to keep a record of what mail is received and what gets mailed out. I asked them about that but they just referred me to Probate. The thing is....if he hadn't told so many people that he did it...not that he's going to do it....if we all didn't know that he had moved on and was taking care of his son...we wouldn't be happy that she would receive the money but we'd live with it. We're not a family where he would have had to lie about it....he just wouldn't have said anything at all. I'm hoping that others will read this and if they or someone they know had dealings with the Trust department last Fall and still do have an official document sent back to them...that they check on it. Don't settle for the answer: we're working on it...we have a backlog. You need to demand they locate it and have it in their hands when they call you back. I don't want anyone else's papers to have disappeared...but if it has happened, the sooner you know the better for you. Too, it would help with our case if it's proven more docs have disappeared. We may very well be the first to deal with their mess.
To Anonymous April 5, 2014 at 12:39 PM—It was Ciaradon Carpenter’s desk, the girl who refused the drug test and was fired last month, where the trust documents were found stuffed in a drawer, and the number 60 won’t even come close. If they will show you her employment application, you will see that Cynthia Boone was a reference for Ciaradon on that application. Remember Cynthia Boone also trying to pass a resolution in support of that dope head down in Hominy who was supposedly banned from the dances last summer? That should tell you who needs to go in June. You can’t hardly blame Core for taking the word of a fellow elected official.
Whine, whine, whine, moan, moan, moan. Core and Red Eagle made the choice to hire her and the ultimate responsibility always lies with the ones who make the executive hiring decision. Why does everyone running things always put forward excuses instead of manning up and admitting to making mistakes? If you never admit to a mistake you can never take steps to correct it. Getting it right is easy. Getting it wrong isn't because you have to backtrack to make corrections and they take twice the time and twice the effort.
Wow! Thanks for the intel Anonymous about the exact person and the info you provided. I have to ask: how many drawers? How many docs? How many were put in a file folder and placed somewhere? How many were thrown in the trash? Our circumstantial evidence continues to grow. Yes, it's circumstantial but at some point those who review the challenges will hopefully say, "Hey, wait a minute...." If anyone else has more info to share I'd really appreciate it. By posting it you'll also be helping the next person because we all know there will be many 'next' people to follow.
Does anyone have suggestions on how we can approach this in our Challenge? Do y'all know what info gets the superintendent to honestly consider our testimony? Of course something on paper from my brother is the best piece of evidence but if we had that we wouldn't be in this position. We are able to show that we knew he changed his Trust even before we found out that Probate only had the original doc...that we were operating on the knowledge that it was changed. And we can show that we started asking questions about a lost or misplaced amandenet before we found out about Ciaradon's crap. We definitely have a timeline of info. I guess I'm looking for some kind of verbiage where, after reading it, the Super has no choice but to say, "Hold on here; we must consider that an Amendment was created, or certainly requested but the paperwork was never processed." Thanks everyone for taking the time to write what you know!
See the article, Land Buy-Back Program: Important Facts for Landowners at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/04/02/land-buy-back-program-important-facts-landowners
It's about time somebody caught up to this...http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/03/12/buy-back-violates-international-human-rights Read the forced sale section: "As is now clear, “controlling level of interest” referred to a mechanism in the federal Indian Land Consolidation Act (ILCA) that permits tribes that acquire a simple 51 percent majority interest in allotted or restricted fee lands to obtain the minority owners’ land interests by forced sale."
Since plans and events have too be set in place ahead of time, I suppose leaking out that The Texas Osage Association Dallas/Fort Worth meeting next Sat. April 12,2014 3:00PM to?. You can check out Jim Ryan's, Osage for Fiscal Responsible or Shan Whitehorn, believe both can be found on Facebook and this probably be formally announced later on this site. As far as Chief Homer goes to Cow Town episode. You will be able to pick me out a Penny's two pocket blue and white checker short sleeve shirt, a fake bow string turquoise bolo tie, with matching ring if I can get it on, may have to cut out the salt for next week. Will be reporting back on fashion statement which you girls on the blog are always interested in, how many strands of pearls around, or hair color. But, also the tougher answers to the tougher questions , like a per cap vote, your thoughts on Non-Osage Shareholders,and if this existing Osage Mineral Council has exceed The Privacy Act of 1974, the BIA supplied the addresses for the Goodwill letter, but at what a amount of cut in the HPP lawsuit settlement, a few of those committee members maybe can answer. So, if not banish will report back on Non-OsageShareholders.com , on Facebook,Twitter and of course on the Osage Blog. H
Thanks Homer. The Texas Osage Association Dallas/Fort Worth meeting will be held at 3:00 P.M. on Saturday April 12, 2014. The meeting location will be the Mellow Mushroom restaurant, 3455 Blue Bonnet Circle, Fort Worth Texas 76109. It is located in the Blue Bonnet Circle historic district, very close to TCU. We hope that all the Osage in the DFW Metroplex area can attend. All candidates running for Osage office and all Osage are invited to share their platforms and ideas. Special thanks to Shan Whitehorn who was instrumental in finding the location and setting the date and time. We are still looking for anyone who will step up in the Houston area to set a meeting there. More at https://www.facebook.com/groups/234024393278360/?ref=br_rs
Homer's Five Points and Promise: 1) Seeking up to date improvements to the safety services. 2) Stop the raiding of the Tribal purse by the "cronies"the backers of one of my opponents. 3) These desperate insider cohorts have given over $xxxx to XXXX campaign, and will, in my opinion, be seeking out favoritism and will be taking direction from them. 4) I am one of you. One of the forgotten, lonesome and friendless off the non-reservation members. A typical average Joe. I won't make any underhanded country club deals. 5) My only chance of winning is up to you. I am asking you for your vote, I'll listen to you and only you and will build a coalition with newly elected and a few seated council persons to get things accomplished for the Tribe and your land, that I've lived on, hunted, fish on before and truly loved.
So, that's what I would have said if had a chance next Saturday afternoon, this gives me more time to mingle . Now is it the pinky finger you point out when holding a drink ? H
Homer, I hope you are alright. You cannot run for Osage Nation elected office as a member of the Minerals Council. This is an Osage Blog and this section is for Osage shareholders. It's fine to comment about matters that concern Osage shareholders but to suggest to Osages that they can vote for you is a bit off. Not possible. It's never going to happen.
Osages, sure I'm all right Just planted a seed., got blossoms on my new tomato plants also the squash. The late John Palmer the adopted Sioux, now a Osage an a known attorney and not as well known a Osage farmer. One of his last speeches probably at election time on the steps of the Osage agency, he told the listeners the importance of not abandonment of growing your own food. I believe he was right, waiting on a oil check can put degrees on the blood pressure, but down on your knees working and growing fresh vegetables takes those degrees off the meter. Oh, that Five Points and Promises , got me 444 votes not enough to win here, but it would have been at the OMC. Did got 11,000 votes one time used $44 campaign cost had a great time. H
Homer, you should sue the BIA for failure to represent you and other non-Osage shareholders. I can find nothing in the law that gives only Osage people to be representation, especially now that the Tribe is not culturally part of the Mineral Trust.
What's that supposed to mean? The Minerals Trust from day it was created by an Act of Congress included members of the Osage Tribe and the culture has never had anything to do with it. The Culture like the NA Religion has always been optional from the very beginning and there has never been mention of either one in the 1906 Allotment Act or any of its amendments. The Trust relationship has always been with the Osage Tribe and the Osage beneficiaries of the trust, their heirs and assigns until subsequent Acts of Congress have amended the original 1906 Act. You may have a point. The fact that they are shareholders too and at one point along the way until the U.S. Congress prohibited it, headrights could be sold, assigned or transferred to non-Osages.
New Supt.Hale told me last week that that was part of the settlement with the lawsuit, to supp;y the addresses to the OMC. And like you I don/t see that in the approved column. H
RED ALERT--HERE WE GO AGAIN! See Wind hearing set for April 10 at fairground at http://barnsdalltimes.com/http:/barnsdalltimes.com/news/wind-hearing-set-for-april-1-at-fairgrounds BE SURE TO ATTEND THIS MEETING TO SHARE YOUR OPPOSITION TO THIS NEW WIND FARM CALLED MUSTANG RUN.
Results of the the March 19, 2014 lease auction at http://osagenews.org/article/minerals-council-lease-sale-garners-356200-sales Compare to the lease auction on Oct. 27, 2010 at http://osagenews.org/article/osage-oil-lease-sale-nets-864940-oil-and-gas-summit
Maria whitehorn shareholder in the first has more rights than a shareholder by itself. Careful. And there are 4000 of us. And I'm right. Now you did not explain how she may be intrepidating, please expand. You have every right afforded a voice as well. Regardless the council has to listen. Arbitrarily, there's no argument. Off the minutes or on the minutes. We are unique. Knowledge is key.
If anyone is still considering supporting Cynthia Boone, you must read the Letters to the Editor section on page 23 of the April, 2014 edition of the Osage News. Many local individuals have been on her hot and heavy for over a year now for lying, misleading, and failing to properly represent the stakeholders. Now, she’s tried her crap in CA., and it didn’t work. Now THIS Ca. stakeholder is calling for her immediate dismissal. I’ll bet the CA. Osages are wondering how many other lies she has told them, and they had believed her. She makes it tougher to defend her all the time, doesn’t she girls? I think Cynthia Boone has bought a very expensive set of furniture for her home. She will pay with her job and her reputation.
"""I still support Cynthia Boone.""" The content of the container sold at a public auction is her private business, there was no inventory ever published and only rumor about what the contents were. How she furnishes her home is also a private matter. California Osages generally form their own opinion and are not influenced by this type of rumor, sorry you take this attitude. Hopefully Osages will think for themselves and make educated judgement about this kind of rhetoric..
I couldn't disagree more. I don't want those new CFRs and I will vote for anyone who puts a stop to what will destroy our income in general and mine in particular. You all are so naive about what will happen with these new CFRs it's a disgrace. They are in the best interest of the Feds not our mineral estate and you are too blind or have your mind so made up you can't see this thing for what it really is and that makes you dangerous to my income and everyone elses. Granted that Ciaradon needed to go as does as that other jailbird. Get professional people hired to handle our trusts and now they have that Fawn gal back in there who, for the first time in Mineral Council history, needed two others to be hired just to get the lead out of her lazy backside. My vote will not go to Core or Red Eagle because they do the hiring and rehiring and the buck stops there. They don't know the first thing about hiring professional competent office staff and we need people in there who do to handle our estate trust business. It's a complete disgrace that the BIA's Osage Agency and the Solicitor's Office in Tulsa has put up with this unbelievable crap for so long.
None of those men on the Council listen to Cynthia and they never have since Sonny Boy turned on her from the time of the last M/C election. Who do you think you're kidding? BTW-it's Core with a C.
So for the time being we'll leave the voting up to to you supposedly correctly individualism selves. But,
We, 4000 will demand higher dividend payouts for our shares Ask this question of the OMC candidates. What do you know about oil and gas?? More questions to follow, may drop in a few answers along the way, never know. H
First of all, I'd like to thank all of the candidates for Mineral Council and Congress for coming to Texas, and specially thanks to the smooth profession touch of Jim Ryan , who did the MC ing, time keeper ect.. Also a equal amount of thanks to Shan Whitehorn for finding such a unique pizza parlor, their vegetarian pizza was outstanding. Will definitely have to exchange recipes with Shan Whitehorn.
With that all being said, Margo Gray came out looking like a million dollars, posing with laryngitis in a very light colored tan almost a leotard fitting pants, anyways , I could see up her ankle a good eight inches, that's above those designer patent leather half heel, real sharp almost gold color tan shoes. The blouse was appeared to be white silk, with a gold foil series of arrows heading toward the head. Over this was a half jacket that matched the pants Touched all the hot points in the Chiefs campaign, I won't be able to to described Standingbear's getup believe he was in Colorado for a dinner in Denver. Now, with 24 more to go can I just say they all looked like they just got out of a car after a 300 mile trip and leave it at that? H
I don't care if she looks like a zillion dollars. She don't have my vote and never will or any other of those Grays that set us on this nasty path to Tribal destruction.
Here, Here ! I wouldn't care if Margo had the backing of the Pope! I am not about to vote for another "Gray" And you can bet on Jim Gray advising her and probably would end up with some sort of appointed position with the Nation. To bad he wasn't banned from any office with the tribe like JRE was.
You said Margo looked like a million dollars but your description sounds more like a "Tart" I am not sure you were trying to be funny or not in your description.
By-the-way if you think I'm a Gray Groupie, think again, if not mistaking I have predicted Standingbear's win for for two years, believe I even gave the vote amount at 1800. Do I think there's a place in the Osage Tribal government for a person with Margo's connections, yes. Even President Obama used the knowledge of Hillary Clinton to be his Sec. of State.H
Ugh! The woman owes money all over town and she's traipsing around Texas in clothes she probably hasn't the money to pay for? If you think I'm going to be impressed by her or anything she wears, NOT. She has no business running for Chief in the first place.
While I've got your eye or ear, the by-the-way remind me of a Tourist attraction across the Great Osage , don't know what railroad tracks remain but it would be a attraction , a rolling casino down the tracks from the Ponca City Osage Casino stopping at the Bluestem GrassLands, next stop Pawhuska, some other's Osage museum. Pawhuska Cemetery, back on that Osage Unlimited Tourist Train. Back in the 1800's the Railroads the one's that eventually sent ya'll a packing to the Indian Territory. needed some financing to build their steel rail system, just so happen some French relatives was visiting your relatives in St. Loius, and was able to get the European Rothchild's to bring the financing to the Kansas and eventually Indian Territory, the MidLand Valley that originally was a coal mining train out of Midland Mine in Arkansas and the Santa Fe that ran North to South off the right-a-way again taken from the Osage. So as you can see Who moved scrxxxx you more times than anyone in the last 100 years. If they candidates can prove their less then 1/128 French and more than 1/4 Osage, they should have the honor to run for and hold elected office No, to non-Osage then no to fake Osages ,too. H
Cynthia Boone has been trying to tear down the Osage Nation’s Constitutional Form of Government for the entire 8 years she has been in office. She and Dudley Whitehorn and Curtis Bear have been waving the 1906 Act around like a flag, and I don’t think they can even read it. If they could read and understand, they would know that the 1906 Act was amended by the United States Congress to allow the Osage people to choose the form of government they wanted. The people did that in 2006, and they chose this constitutional form of government we now have. But the framers of our constitution have missed some very important points, one of them being, it is almost impossible to amend it. But sooner or later, it will be amended, and let’s hope that next time they get it right. Meanwhile, Cynthia, Dudley, and Curtis have continued to try to cause problems at every turn, obviously trying to do their part to make it appear that the ONG isn’t working. Curtis has seemed to be trying to get out of Cynthia’s ruts for several months now, but as soon as the election is over, I expect him to fall right back in line. That’s fine, if that’s what they truly believe, but I don’t think our mineral council should be bogged down in these muddy ruts of desperation for the next 3 or 4 years waiting on the Interior Board of Indian Appeals to make a decision. Even if “Jech” should happen to win at IBIA, it will only allow them to start from scratch again. Let Cynthia and Curtis fight their hopeless battle on their own time. The crooked, greedy “Jech” lawyers have their hooks set so deep, there is probably no way out for them now anyway. By the way, these are the very same greedy lawyers that Cynthia, Dudley, and Curtis spent several months trying to get the council to hire as general counsel for the MC. This was also about the same time that these three were trying to pry $50,000 out of the MC to pay Jech’s legal fees to these same shysters. They had the council convinced, and the $50,000 was approved. They might have gotten away with it if the other five councilmen hadn’t noticed that the Jech litigants were being billed nearly $3000 by these crooked lawyers to APPLY for the job of general counsel for the MC. At its best, that would have been highly unethical, and at its worst, it was morally corrupt, and possibly even illegal. Dudley had apparently set the whole thing up and Cynthia signed the voucher to pay the first installment on the $50,000. Neither of the other two signatories would sign the voucher, and it takes two. The council voted NO on hiring Dudley’s lawyers at a regular meeting, and then Dudley and Cynthia brought the matter to a vote (illegally) for a second time some weeks later at a special meeting held only for the purpose of approving a lease sale done at an Oil and Gas Summit. Once again, the council did not approve hiring Jech’s lawyers. Two or three months later, the council voted five to three to rescind the resolution of support and take away the $50,000 previously granted. If the five councilmen who voted NO hadn’t stopped this mess in its tracks, these lawyers would have kept coming back to the well. I’ve never seen a better case for “CONFLICT OF INTEREST”. Boone and Bear must g
What a great post and you hit the nail on the head. I like Curtis Bear and voted for him but his actions show that he can't think for himself when it comes to MC matters. Cynthia leads him around by the nose, all the way to Washington to support the producers. As far as the perception of Curtis trying to distance himself recently from Cynthia, I believe that's just to get re-elected and then it will be back to business as usual. Look what happened after he followed Cynthia to Washington and later found out that people didn't like what they did one darn bit ! Then he started backtracking trying to explain his way out of it. We DO NOT need people on the MC that can't think ahead before they act and we certainly don't need people that are not going to represent the shareholders and work on their behalf. I wonder how that washes with the shareholders when Cynthia says " I work for you " and then she and her buddies on the MC go to DC on the producers dime ? If you will read the above post and others you will get a clear picture that Cynthia has had a couple of MC members in her pocket that will vote any way she does and that's how she tries to run the MC. Thank goodness there are some MC members that are thinking and working for us and we need to vote them back in. Dudley is not going to run, if Curtis does not get elected and Stephanie Erwin and Linda Heskitt don't get elected, ( they are supporters of Cynthia from the OSA ) and we elect some knowledgeable educated people to the MC then we can put a stop to all the turmoil that has been going on mostly caused by Cynthia and her posse ! Now is our chance to really make a difference in the MC and get some people that will represent us, respect us and listen, rather than sneak off into the night with the producers ! And, we certainty don't need someone on the MC that thinks it's their job in life to count office condiments !
Answer this question honestly, what good is a Constitutional government that held out the promise that all of us would be treated the same that steals all the money from 80-90% of its members to give to the employees and boards and commissions and study groups and does little if anything for the man in the street Osage who isn't old or young that provides no income for any of those members who don't have a headright? The only thing it allows us to do is vote for the crooks and sidewinders who have been running it into the ground from the day it first got started. Of those who have been elected run it, how many have businesses that in one way or another benefit from Osage government money staying in a very small geographical area?
1:51 p.m. You must be one of those folks who want Mineral Council money added to the hideously corpulent worker waist lines in candy and crap and such. If you were as drunk as most of those who work for the Osage government are fat with their candy and pop allowances, you'd be arrested for public intoxication and thrown in the drunk tank for six months. I loathe all this waste and so should you.
Irwin,Heskett and Boone, I believe will balance out a otherwise good o'boys, mud duck lodge group to say the least. R...A...Y..."S... licking at the chops waiting to make it official he with the boys, Yates and Galen..A good substitute is in the making, Conner's has about, 20 years current experience in oil and gas more then then anyone a running. Haskett, I thought for a minute well here's the person I've been reading for two years and she's a running for OMC. may not be but I think close enough to count as a outsider for this rigged council. Both Haskett and Irwin have attended what meetings that they can set in on , so they have done their homework. You're better get a balance on that council or your never going to forgive yourselves. H.
Let's be upright ,this Mineral Council, they were the reason the horizontal drillers left the Osage. Team my xxx, hard ball with that bureaucracy understaffed do nothings, Ray can write about Yates Crum and the others can laugh about but it gets in the pocket book of every Shareholder if things don't work on time like Clock work. We'll see who the old OsageShareholders.com picks for their slate of Osage Mineral Council candidates H
Homer Finncannon, you never have explained to the shareholders exactly how your “family full of lawyers in the long ago”, without a drop of Osage blood, came by this Osage mineral interest that you now hold. Do you know for sure just how that came about? For your information, all that “got into your pocket book” in the last 4 years, was a share of the $24 million in concession fees and lease bonuses, and the revenue from the increase in production of over 2,000 barrels of oil per day. That’s what “got into your pocket book” and I seriously doubt that you have any plans to volunteer to return that mineral interest back to the Osages. Producers have sold out, to other producers, and the new producers are renewing concessions and paying large fees to do so, and then leasing up leases within those concessions, again paying more large fees for the leases, and, the BIA says that they recently issued 29 drilling permits in just one week, a world record for them. You keep acting like producers are just walking away, abandoning their producing leases. If that ever happened, the mineral council would very quickly be in the oil producing business, with no cost at all. But it has not happened yet, and in reality, there has been very little to even put in a lease sale. It’s about all leased up, and believe it or not, there are a few isolated places that may not have oil at all. Who would you lease that to? Lighten up Homer, listen up, and try to learn what is going on before you embarrass yourself further.
Daisy Ware Estate husband and my Uncle Bernard Beach case went to the Supreme Court of the United States, the whole proceeding is on the Law Research website just Yahoo or Google . Now how did you get your mineral interest? So, you believe everyone's happy with the blanket leases, wasn't when Foster came to renewal, probably wasn't when Uncle Sam Oil, got bankrupted by Standard Oil either, Political embarrassing or not,who's going to get someones attention,but, than trying to verify it is almost impossible ,liars figures, figures lie, somewhere beneath the Osage and the Shareholders.H
You are right, the old OSA site was Osageshareholders.org HOWEVER I did a Google search of the site you mentioned "Osageshareholders.com" and came up blank. If it exist I would like to read it. Please tell us how to find it. Thanks
I found the site you mentioned. It isn't a Osage share Holders site. It is in fact a NON- Osageshareholders web site and is listed as such.This leads to the question of...are these "Non" Osages OR "Non: shareholders? Either way under the Osage constitution they don't have a vote !
You found the site, I found the site, nobodies found it, it'll rise up like the early morning sun,like a Stampeding Herd of Buffaloes, bringing with it a New Day,a New Way for All Shareholders. This Site will be Dedicated to the Shareholders, It's a coming I see the dust cloud on that far ridge, yes, no more blocking out the View of the ordinary by a few, over yonder, what a wonder, no ones seen so-far today.H
If you stick your head above the crowd you get shot at, if you hit the deck or the gutter your down there with the rest. I told you since, I presume the replies are coming from you folks that wasn't there, that I would give a little fashion report. Thought after the almost a lynching of the Senior Elder almost a full blood Ex Chief, that I heard more then one mention it Saturday. You know, read it more then once here, "Loathing of the True Osages." Don't have the nerve to run for elected office so be it, make your Sxxxw bread and meat pies,and Indian tacos and leave it to the tougher skins. You observe I didn't use the color Red,truly only saw a few Saturday , the back of my redneck probably was just about as red as seen, Dress for success, having a crease in your dress slacks., you may think you know the dirt while my corrected cataracts ,and these correlated,glaucoma affected eyes are telling you a sight. So next time you sign up for one of the hot seats, but remember I won't report on any Fake Osages must be at least a quarter blood, and less than a 1/128 French or can't waste my time on it, must be Genuine. H
Are you saying that you believe 1 / 4 or less is not Osage ? This quantum subject has been discussed so many times. Take that position and eventually there will be no tribe. I am tired of hearing about it!
Just read the load of excuses class council gave about the Cobell suit in Indianz.com. sounds as if the DOI has passed the buck onto GCG as opposed to doing the work themselves. But as stated in the Court record's known whereabouts IMM accounts are to be deposited if they cannot deliver to an address that is non deliverable to put the money into their IMM account. Whats the hold up? The Judge denied class council additional funding of twelve million? The appeal process is done and over with. Everyone knows how much they should be receiving. Alot of Indians are concerned about the interest building on the account. As I had stated in much earlier posts what about the interest and yet no answer from class council on Indianz.com. Class council should reapond to the questions. Where does this settlement go from here?
Some of these people they cant find, for cobell payout, may not want to be found. Some owe school loan money or wanted by the law and such. Thats their business. But why cant the ones they know go ahead and get their money. I wonder if they are afraid they will not have enough money to go around. I think theres alot more to this than what they are telling us.
The inefficiencies are a result of poor record keeping at the administrative level. No oversite to no consequence suffered the Indfians and endless suits to only repeat history's past.
See ON Election Board approves ballot for June 2 general election at http://osagenews.org/article/election-board-approves-ballot-june-2-general-election
I thought this was very interesting. An earlier post to this forum asked the question, could anyone list any qualifications such as, education, oil and gas experience or business experience for example, that Linda Haskett or Stephanie Erwin might have to to qualify them to sit on the MC with a million dollar budget ? I haven't seen any takers yet.
Linda & Stephanie are as qualified as any other shareholder. The qualities you are asking for are the responsibility of the BIA. We need to put someone on the MC that has the interest of the shareholder in mind and get the good old boy network off. No, NO!!! to Crum, Yates, McClain, Core and RedEagle.
Being a shareholder doesn't automatically qualify you for anything other than voting and getting a quarterly check. Out of the thousand or so shareholders how many of those are qualified to oversee a $1,000,000 business ? Not many! AND, it is not the responsibility of the BIA to put people on the MC. That's up to us. If Linda and Stephanie desire to be on the MC it's up to them to point out their qualifications during their campaign. I wouldn't mind hearing from them on this forum or if you know them so well, why don't you enlighten us on their qualifications? This blog reaches a lot of people and I am sure they would all be glad to hear. Here is the opportunity for them or for you to step up to the plate and "Put up or shut up" so to speak. Are you telling me that Cynthia, and Bear had our interest in mind when the went to DC with the producers? I don't think so and neither do a lot of others. I am pleased with the work the "Good old boy" network that you refer to have been doing and Ray McClain will be a good addition to the MC. At least these people don't jump whenever Cynthia says "BOO !"
And Boone after reading The Osage News and the letters to the editor, confirms what needs to happen. We need team Shareholders support period. I would like a job description of each member on the MC and OSA. I'm sure the inefficiencies at the BIA are not just linked to them alone.
You had a team with the oil producers in partnership and you couldn't wait to stab them in the back the very first chance you got to change the CFRs. You such people accuse others of doing exactly what you've been doing when you started the whole nasty business. You've got a hell of a lot of nerve.
Yeah, it’s really tough that the producers are going to have to start paying royalty on ALL the oil they sell, isn’t it? Actually, some of the gas purchasers are screwing the shareholders AND the producers, by not maintaining the meters and with some of the totally one-sided gas purchase contracts the BIA has agreed to in the past. No more! With the new cfrs, at least we will be getting our proper gas royalty. The producers can give their part away if they want to, or they can grow some cahones. It will be their choice.
That was part of the problem. It seems that there were a few of our MC members that were more in partnership with some of the producers than the shareholders. Thankfully we had five, that were thinking for the betterment of the minerals estate than the others. When the Federal Govt saw what a mess things were in and stepped in, they saw fit to dismiss the superintendent and streamline the procedures and re-enforce the rules by working with the BIA and the MC in up grading the CFR's, Several MC members sided with the producers to go to Washington to protest the new changes. Depends on your point of view who, as you put it, got "stabbed in the back" BY the actions of a few, I feel it was the shareholders that got "stabbed in the back" and intend on voting those that went to Washington off the MC.
Your point of view is going to cost all of us money. These people pull the product out of the ground. If you dump on them because you have no respect for what they do for us then you dump on all of us. All you people are interested in is money and sooner or later, people like that always pay the price.
You are beginning to sound like a producer. Why are you posting here on this shareholder blog? If you are really a shareholder, why don’t you just go ahead and start sending the producers a check each quarter for about 15% of your payment check? You will probably still come out ahead when the new cfrs kick in anyway. I’m keeping mine.
You'll both dry up here when the checks start plummeting. Of that I have no doubt. A dissenting opinion is just that with no need to employ fiction to further your ignorant foolish ends. Let Sonny Boy play you along like fiddles. If he loses half of what he gets that's still nearly 2 full headrights worth in quarterly payment. It might put a dent in his income but it won't be the end of the world. For most others, it'll be devastating and you'll both be on the wrong side of this issue with no way of turning things back.
Reply to 6:35 PM It's our oil and gas and the producers are making a bundle off of it.and that's alright. I haven't seen one post or opinion that we don't respect what they do and no one has dumped on them as you seem to think.
Just a point of clarification. A person posted on April 17 at 11:14, that they had been reading the "Osageshareholders.com" web site In case anyone wants to know, this site is actually a NON-Osageshareholders web site. A deliberate omission on the posters part. Good try :)
A little bit of clear-up in that April 18,2014 6.22 further back in the comments and the one above 6:29pm. I've answered that below the 6:22, He found it, I'm losing a lot of time, that I could be using to distract from some real close races like,H
There have been post on this forum referring to the business of the MC being a $1.000,000 business. That my friends is their operating budget. If you don't think we need people on the MC that are knowledgeable and educated in the oil and gas industry the total royalty income for 2013 was over 85 million dollars !! A lot of things have lead to this but that's an approximate increase in royalty revenue of 65 million over 2001. And the total gross revenue was around 1/2 a billion. I would say, Yates,Galen,Core,and RedEagle have been doing a doing a pretty good job in spite of several members and if we can get Ray McClain on there things will get even better.
The 85 million dollars the BIA oversees and keeps the producers as honest they can according to the CFR's. The MC doesn't make a bit of difference one way or the other and the good old boys you list here just take what kickbacks they can and sell you shareholders a crock of "s,,,,,," to make you happy to lap it up.
I’m glad to see that you agree that the CFR’s are critical to the operation of the mineral estate. The MC negotiates and approves all concession and lease agreements, and the gas purchase contracts are developed by the BIA and approved by the MC. Since there has never been anyone on any MC that fully understands the gas contracts, with the possible exception of Talee Red Corn, the BIA has been selling us a bill of goods on these gas contracts. Someone, maybe Talee, brought in a gas contract expert several years ago, who told the Council and the BIA just how bad these contracts were, but he couldn’t convince them. The BIA still doesn’t have anyone on board who understands gas contracts. Maybe the new Superintendent will do something about this. It’s costing us a fortune in royalties.
To 4-18 at 9:37 Kind of treading on thin ice aren't you? If you are going to accuse MC members of taking kickbacks, I would like to hear about them. Please list names of those that received them, who gave, the amounts and dates. If you can prove your accusations, I'm sure we would like to hear about them. Since you brought this up, I wondered why a MC member would vote to reduce the concession amount to be paid by a producer? You don't suppose there was a kickback involved ?
I was thinking about Stephanie's qualifications and wondered this. If Stephanie worked for the BIA for a time and as Cynthia was, a supporter of Melissa, how did things get in such a mess that Melissa had to be removed and where was Stephanie and why didn't she speak up?
From the Osage News: The Petition against the planned Wind Farms in Osage County is now available at the Osage Minerals Council offices for signatures. The OMC respectfully asks that all Osages and Osage County residents who oppose the proposed wind farm sign the petition. For more information call the OMC offices at (918) 287-5433.
See article, Permit for TradeWind’s Mustang Run project tabled at http://barnsdalltimes.com/http:/barnsdalltimes.com/news/permit-for-tradewinds-mustang-run-project-tabled
Oh Good Grief ! The Eagle is a revered symbol in the Native American culture. Pryor to the coming of the gospel to the Native Americans the Eagle was thought to take our prayers to the "Great Spirit" ( We didn't have a name other than that for God ) Where as now the Eagle is still revered but no one of Christian faith that I know of,is saying the Eagle comes before God or is a graven image before God. Additionally this is a living creature with limited numbers and should be protected. Lei's not kill off every living thing in the name of progress. As I understand it the rules will allow for a total of six kills a year with no means to keep record or penalties for over kill. And if there were,the wind farm operators will just pay the fine for the year and just keep on trucking ,year after year. Do you think anyone cares but us? Once they are all gone it will be to late !! Sign the petition
April 21, 2014 at 5:21 AM, Do not post comments here that are insulting and inflammatory to and about the religious beliefs of the Osages or any other Tribal community. They are unwelcome and uninvited. Such printed remarks are as appropriate as posting KKK meeting agendas on the NAACP Blog. Good grief is right!
OMC Council Members are looking for some red hot buttons to push, and trust me this is one. Where else can they get the current activist name address and possible e-mail and phone number, sure they can get some from the old BIA , for their use but maybe not the e-mail and phone. I believe I'd sent in my petition to a neutral party that's not currently involved in a hot political race. I also wasn't to sure what Fred Drummond met by stating that there was two Bills down at the Oklahoma State house that would change some things, What?
I"ll add one other thing to the "good grief" post Once the wind farm is up and operating, there will be no way to stop killing the eagles until one of two things happen. One...the eagles are all killed off from our land Two...the wind farm turbines stop turning and that's not going to happen. The wind farm needs to be stopped now or there will be no turning back. Why should it be OK to kill our eagles ?
Osage Chief Bighourse a good catholic must have made a deal with Pope Francis bringing changes to the Catholic Church that gives dispensation to Osage Catholics to ignore the word of God.
With the Federal Tax credit soon to be no longer available these entities will soon have to fend for themselves and not feed off the tax payer any longer. We need to stay in the know and continue this fight against the wind farms. What a boondoggle.
Poster 4-22 at 8:02 AM. You must be the same one that posted on April 21 at 9:51 that was removed. First off why would you make such a terrible accusation toward the Chief OR anyone else for that matter? Second...WHAT DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND concerning the 4-21 9:55 post "Good Grief" Third...You evidently now NOTHING about Indian culture and how it relates to Christianity and the gospel. Fourth......Other than our own human faults, which we all have, you imply that Osage Catholics are running around deliberate ignoring the word of God ! You must run with a different crowd than I do.
What's going on with ONCA 13-62, An Act to require all compacts and proposed regulations with the State of Oklahoma or the United States of America to be affirmed by resolution of the Osage Nation Congress; and to establish an alternate effective date. (?) The only bill for this that I can find is http://osagenation.co/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/ONCA13-62.REVISED.pdf with no Committee Substitute listed for download at http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/congress-legislative-branch/legislation This legislation should hand any compacting of anything associated with the BIA where the Mineral Estate is concerned over to the Minerals Council for their review and approval before it ever gets into the hands of the Osage Congress for theirs. What is going on here?
Talking about qualifications, I just got off the phone with a friend who works at the gaming commission. They had a few words to say about the director. Apparently she is not Osage, or even Native at all. She has no college degree... Seriously, how did she get in? Do we hire Director-level staff with no degree? Unbelievable. The main issue I was told about was that she is allowing the casino to build these new casinos with little oversight. The staff want to do their jobs, but she forces them to stay away... Smells like kickbacks if ya ask me. What happens if the feds come in and realize this? Do we get shut down? We should be asking questions. The gaming operation is pretty much the lifeblood of the government itself. We will all suffer if they get caught out by the feds. Who is this person related to and why do we not hear more from them about what they do to protect gaming?
I would be calling the Chief, then to the Feds. So what you are saying this is why the build out of the Casino's has cost the Osages because their is no oversite because of incompetence? And inquiry minds would like to know who hired her as well and how did she get the job and time to replace her ASAP. Even if this is rumor.
What is the name of this director you are talking about and if she is related to someone that got her the job....tell us! Sounds like she is not qualified to direct a darn thing and again we pay for it!
HURRY! Questions for the Candidates at the Debate: You do not have to be a shareholder to send a question but the questions do have to pertain to the Osage Mineral Estate and the Osage Minerals Council. All questions ( one question per entry) are due by Friday, April 25, noon. Please send all questions to osagenews@osagenation-nsn.gov or call (918) 287-5668.
WOW!! I had no idea it was this bad. Check out “gas problems” on Ray McClain’s http://www.Osages-You-Need-To-Know.com web site. This is terrible. Open Attachment 2014-04-24 Major Problem with Gas Accounting, for Years.pdf Open
WTF. This is not funny in tne least. Just on one well we are losing 20,000 dollars a day! Time to sue the Federal Government again. And time to fire our MC. Lay out of job performance to piss poor management. We have 9000 wells performing. And to think they are negotiating and approving contracts with the BIA approving knowing this information. Doing the same thing over again is the meaning of insanity. This is how much we are losing a day give or take a few dollars $ 65,700,000,000 a year. Who's getting the kick backs maybe the Feds need a call. This isn't chump change and just because the CFR'S are sitting in limbo does not mean we have to wait to negotiate great contracts. So now you know why these CFR'S need approving and now you understand the incompetence is clearly evident on all levels at an administrative and with the MC. and now you understand their first job needs to take a rest because no one is mining the ship. Do they realize the demographics here, I do. This is a eye opener and thanks Ray McClain for posting and a huge thanks to Susan Foreman. I suspected but not to this gravity. Unbelievable.
I also strongly suggest that everyone read the post on the "Osages-You-Need-To-Know" site. Click on the heading titled "Major problems With Gas Accounting" Ray McClain as usual has excellent insight to the problems that exist and added a letter by Susan Foreman detailing with facts and figures the depth of the problem and how much money we are loosing. With Ray's extensive experience and knowledge of the oil and gas industry and Susan's experience as a Natural Gas Consultant I don't think he would attach Susan's letter to his site unless he totally agreed with what she is pointing out. PLEASE READ THIS ! After you read it you will be more convinced that we need people like Ray and Susan on the MC. This is a business and needs to be run like one with people that have experience in the field.
At the recommendation of several post, I read Ray McClain's comments on the Osages-You-Need-To-know site and the attached letter by Susan Foreman. If you read it ,I think you will come away amazed at what a mess things are in and why numerous changes need to be made to the CFR's. Also, I came away with renewed questions on WHY Cynthia, Melvin, Dudley and Curtis, all MC members, went to Washington with four members of the Osage Producers Association to lend their support in opposition to new CFR"s !! It should be obvious to all, that something is wrong and there is more than meets the eye. These are not people we need on the MC representing the shareholders. Looks like to me that they are fighting more for the producers than the shareholders ? WHY I don't know but can think of several reasons.
Ray’s post of Susan’s letter telling of her experience with this gas purchase contract is not all that usual in that purchaser is offering a completely one sided contract that requires much of the gas and NGL’s (Natural gas Liquids) to be given away and then both are undervalued (especially the liquids) on what they do pay for. These contracts are negotiated by the producer with the purchaser and the Minerals Council has no role in the process. (the same is true of oil contracts but at least we do have a poor minimum floor price in the current CFR’s we will accept and none is just given away) The BIA does review and approve them, but the practice seems to have been to pretty much to go along with whatever the deal the producer decides to go with. The justification being that gas production is generally a secondary product of an oil well not a primary income producer for the well. The producer needs to get rid of the gas in order to produce the well, so he has little incentive push for a better deal on the gas. The problem is the Osages only get paid a royalty share of what ever the producer gets paid. In order fix this problem with all these very bad purchase contracts the BIA Superintendent would have to take the unprecedented action of voiding contracts that they already approved, which is never going to happen, or start insisting on better new contracts for the Osages and let the old ones die by attrition. (this would take many years) This is why in the new CFR’s we completely by pass the contracts, old and new, from an Osage standpoint. The new Regs. require all gas to be measured at or near the well head and tested for the MMbtu value(heating value) and then the Osages will be paid top of the local market price(ONRR oklahoma zone #1) for every bit of gas that is produced. We also include detailed specifications on how metering and btu testing systems are to be constructed and maintained. In this way the producers can give away or accept less than market value for their portion of the gas, but the Osages will be paid top of the market price for their entire royalty share of every bit of gas produced, even if it is flared. And all gas will be accurately measured before it leaves the lease.
Susan Forman response: Thank you Galen for this very informative explanation. The well in question produced 3,139 MMBtu at the well in the last 10 days of February. Galen’s deal with the BIA was to take the wellhead produced MMBtu and value that at the ONRR OK Zone 1 price for same time period. http://www.onrr.gov/Valuation/allzones.htm 3,139 MMBtu X $5.15 = $16,165.85 Royalty value at 3/16th’s (.1875) is $3,031.10 My spreadsheet on Ray’s website calculates the value of the gas stream “as if” it was processed. So you have to extract liquids through a refrigeration process, burning some of the gas as fuel along the way. The natural gas liquids such as Propane, pentanes, butanes are sold separately and the remaining dry gas is sold at the market price. Total value in my posted example is $21,132.26 & the Royalty value would be $3,962.30 Difference between Galen’s calculation and mine is: $4,966.41 Royalty share of the difference is $931.20 which doesn’t seem like that much but remember it is only 10 days of production. Galen did the best he could to insure that we would have a formula for the BIA/producers that is easy to administer and will greatly increase the revenue we receive as shareholders and I applaud him for that. As I shared in my letter, the CFR’s are not approved yet and the same old bad contract deals are still being approved by the BIA with full knowledge of the Superintendent and staff. I simply wanted to point out the full value of our rich gas. My hope is that qualified people on the MC and BIA will start “thinking out of the box” to find ways to assist Osage Co. Producers to negotiate better deals. Working together, the sky is the limit. If Producers knew how much revenue they were missing out on you would think they would want to innovate. It might start with “Not signing over processing rights to the Purchaser” in all new contracts especially if the gas is just blended and not processed after the Purchaser takes delivery. If cost effective, Producers can extract liquids at the well with a portable unit. Why would a Producer want to give this value to the Purchaser for nothing in return unless the Purchaser can process and share the revenue with the Producer & Shareholder. I can think of a dozen ways to assist the Producer in improving the bottom line. It is important to point out here if the ONRR OK Zone 1 price per MMBtu rises and the price per gallon for natural gas liquids falls it is possible that Galen's deal would be a higher price. At some other time I will compare the two pricing scenarios historically to see how they compare & share. That is what I would have done if I had been involved in the decision. You have to have access to the published prices. Hint: Our MC should be subscribing to the Industry Price publications for Natural Gas Liquids and Platts Gas Daily to evaluate how we are doing going forward. I hope this was a little more clear than mud and useful in deciding what caliber of MC candidate we will vote for. FYI, Galen and Ray have my full support for MC! The are smart men with the right experience and have demonstrated that by devoting long hours to improve our bottom line.
Thank you Susan for pointing out what can happen when the gas being marketed is very wet and rich valuable NGL’s. In the interest of brevity in trying to get my point across that new CFR’s are going to pretty much fix the Osage’s problems with the bad sales contracts, I failed to mention another part of the new gas pricing CFR. In the event that very rich gas is being produced that will generate more revenue by stripping and selling the separate components than will be captured by pricing the whole mmbtu value prior to separation, we can require that the producer do what is called dual accounting, where by he will have to report separated sales generated as well as the original whole stream valuation. The Osages will then be paid royalty on the greater of the two valuation methods. We didn’t require dual accounting on all gas sales because we were trying to limit the amount of added accounting work load placed on both the producer and the BIA when it would not be helpful to the Osage bottom line. But it is a simple process of checking sales reports on very high btu gas and putting that producer on the dual accounting system when merited.
By the way Susan, I added this dual accounting option to the proposed CFR after you pointed out to me during Neg/Reg committee work that this situation could well arise. So you can take credit for it being there.
I also agree that helping and encouraging producers to negotiate better contracts would still be helpful to the Osage mineral production in general even if we are no longer being hurt. But traditionally many of our producers (especially the smaller ones) have been resistant to taking gas sales seriously. I suspect however when they have to start paying the Osages a much greater portion of the gas revenue they are receiving, they may become more mindful of paying attention to that part of their business.
Ray's just a copying, Talee Redcorns platform, just vote for Talee then. T. Boone Pickets knew where the gas was, but didn't figure these OMC BoZos, wouldn't charge anyone for the natural gas. Stupid,stupid,stupid, on the comments Osage Mineral Council-You-Need-To-Replace, replace them all.
Our Osage Neg/Reg expert (Dan Reineke) already knew of theses problems when we started the committee process since he is the person that proved these BIA short comings in court during the Trust Case. So he had already developed this way to by-pass all the red tape involved in fixing the problem. When he and I were able get a look at more of these awful contracts during the Neg/Reg investigation work, he estimated that our gas royalty should double when we start getting paid full value for all our gas and NGL’s. This is only one of the many reasons that Sonny, Andrew and I stood fast when the rest of the Council panicked and tried to get us to stop the new CFR’s from being implemented. We believe that the Osages deserve to be paid fair market value for all our oil and gas. P.S. One of the producers ( Bob Sullivan) that hauled Cynthia and her crew to Washington to lobby officials for them is one of the biggest NGL and gas producers in the County. His wells are more gas than oil producers. So it is easy to see why he is so against the new CFR’s. And yes, he is the same Sullivan Oil Co. that shortly after that trip, Cynthia and Dudley tried to get us give them a five year extension to their 90,000 acre concession for no payment for the exclusive drilling rights and a $25 per acre lease bonus and no drilling commitments. Neighboring concessions paid us $4,000,000 for the exclusive 3 yr. rights and $100 per acre lease bonuses, plus drilling commitments.
Thank you Mr. Crum, for enlightening us. It’s easy to see why Susan Forman might have misunderstood about the MC and BIA failing to do their job. If the MC doesn’t even have access to the gas contracts, there’s probably no way she could ever get to see them, except for the one given to her by the producer she was trying to help. Hang in there, we appreciate you 3, and we’re going to try to get you some help on June 2
Galen Crum non the less, this should have never happened in the first. This is not chump change we are talking about and just reeks of incompetency. I do appreciate your response.
There has been a lot of saber rattling about the MC and "replace them all" I think this would be a big mistake to take this attitude to the voting box. It should be obvious by now that we need to keep a core of members that know what the problems are and how to address them. Even with all the problems, I still am supporting Galen, Sonny and Andrew to help salvage this mess. As one can see their hands have been tied, to a certain extent by bad contracts the BIA approved, under the direction of Melissa and bad CFR"s They are going to need some help and in my opinion that would be to elect Ray McClain and Susan Foreman to the MC, get rid of Curtis and Cynthia, Dudley is not running and God forbid ! do not elect Linda or Stephanie! You will have the same turmoil that we have had and more. We don't need Cynthia stalking employees in the parking lot and causing problems everywhere she goes. And we don't need to elect two more to the MC that think as she does. We need a MC that can work together rather than all this infighting that Cynthia and her followers cause. I imagine during the debates Stephanie will bring up her work experience with the BIA. Point of fact she was a strong supporter of Melissa, as was Cynthia and therefore was part of the problem that got us into this mess. Also, if anyone attended any OSA meetings you will remember how belligerent, argumentative and controlling Linda was.You get Cynthia, Linda and Stephanie together on the MC they will try to control things just and cause as much disruption as they can. I think Cynthia's record on this speaks for its self. If the Feds saw fit to get rid of Melissa we should be smart enough to get rid of her supporters on the MC.
I stand corrected! I received a phone call today and was told that Susan Foreman has not filed for a position on the MC. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. HOWEVER this does not negate the fact that we need people of her caliber and expertise on the MC. Which means we will need to do some more research as to who is most qualified and well represent the shareholders. Maybe the upcoming debate will shed more light on who to elect? As mentioned before I support Galen, Sonny, Andrew and Ray McClain. With a new superintendent, more funds to operate the BIA and revised CFR's coming on board lets be smart about who we chose, they will need all the help they can get and we do too.
All of your posts this week have been helpful. At this point we are still losing fist over dollars on a daily basis untold thousands of dollars. Does anyone know when the approval of said changes to the CFR'S are to become current?
Hey April 25, 2014 at 9:13 AM. I'm going to vote for all of them (Cynthia, Linda and Stephanie) because they want to work with the Producers and not treat them like filthy villains. They have also have the guts to stand up to these controlling men who have tried to push Cynthia around from the very beginning. She needs allies to stop these greedy bstrds from destroying the Mineral Estate with the result being producers fleeing right and left. They were only here because of the old CFRs anyway and there has been no talk of protecting their interests under them. Switching CFRs in the middle of these lease agreements is a poor way to treat your lessees but that makes little if any difference to any of the Sonny Boy Osages. There's more to the story than just the Osage side and I'm sick and tired of the self-centered tunnel vision.
If you didn't like Melissa who came up through the ranks at the BIA then you won't like other Osages running things either. They don't know what they are doing and it can only go from bad to worse. The charts Galen reports are skewed to meet with his arguments. Cynthia and Linda and Stephanie and Dudley and Curtis only want to keep the BIA in place so that the Osage Nation does not eat up the Minerals income. Nobody is looking ahead to what this Energy Services LLC is up to with this new land or a building they are getting set up by the Congress to buy that the Minerals Council has nothing to do with though the development of the Mineral Estate is specifically listed as their responsibility which the Osage Nation ignores just like they always do when the Constitution runs afoul of their devious and underhanded purposes. Again and again and again, the Feds can unilaterally pull out of managing the ME Trust because of the 1978 Act to Amend the 1938 Act which amends the 1906 Allotment Act. The Congress can provide for the trust to end without an Act of Congress to do it and we don't have any idea what the term "provide" actually means where U.S. Congress is concerned. We have already voted to give the Mineral Council the authority to represent the shareholders in the HPP lawsuit and that means they have the ability to negotiate new CFRs by that Negotiated Rulemaking Committee that was created by the terms and conditions of the lawsuit. This involves much much more than just the issue of the producers. If the Feds walk that means the BIA too. The Osage Nation is now in possession of the right of ownership where the royalty income from the Mineral Estate is concerned prior to it being collected and transferred to the Trust account by the BIA. Cut the Feds and the BIA out and you have nothing more than another income stream coming into the Osage Nation Treasury that will be in a position to collect it and transfer it to their coffers exactly like they do the income coming in from the tax revenue and gaming. If that happens, don't expect for a second that they will ever create a new trust because they will have the non-headright owners with pitchforks at their door expecting distribution to them as well. That's probably another 5 to 6,000 Osages expecting a check every quarter and don't even try and think that it won't play out exactly like this because it will. You need to support those who support the Feds continuing to manage the Federally held ME Trust under the 1906 Act and Cynthia and Linda and Stephanie and Dudley and Curtis will do exactly that. If Standing Bear, a lawyer, gets Chief and undoubtedly he will against Margo Gray you will have someone in office who has already put forward a plan to get rid of the Feds, who can write up the legislation and prepare the legal documents all by himself and has the full unilateral power under the Osage Nation Constitution to put such a plan on its feet and get it up and running. I AM WARNING YOU. Don't ignore this warning to the peril of the income you receive in your headright checks.
I’ll try to respond to some of the questions raised above though it is hard to respond directly to folks since everyone seems to have the same name, “anonymous”.
I have been in contact the last couple of days with the DOI folks working on finishing responses to all the concerns raised in the comment period. They have to do this as part of the legal requirements of the process, and they are in a big push to get it finished. They didn’t give me a date for completion, but I get the feeling it is getting close. I hope so; we’ve lost millions in additional income since this process should have been completed.
To Anonymous poster(s) 12:02 & 12:46 I challenge you to name the companies that you claim are “fleeing right and left”. I don’t treat the producers like “filthy villains” I treat them like what they are, people that we are in a business relationship with. We own the oil and gas and they enter into agreements to produce it and sell it. For that we allow them to keep 80% to 87.5% of the minerals to sell for what ever price they see fit. But the lease agreements have always given the Osages the right to say what the minimum acceptable price should be for their 12.5% to 20% share what is produced. I don’t blame them for the fact that the current flawed CFR’s didn’t get us fair top of the market prices for our oil and gas. But I also won’t allow the situation to continue just because they quite naturally would prefer that it did. I expect them to look after their interests, just as I must look after the Osage interests. I respect their rights, but they also must respect ours. That is the foundation of good business relationships.
And I also would like you to show how my charts are skewed. You and your like make wild statements with no facts to back them, and yet you want to say my facts that come from BIA sales records, US Energy department websites and official NYMEX postings are skewed. If that is the case show us the data that proves your side of the story. Heck, I’ll make it easy for you; just show us some researchable facts that show even one of my charts is inaccurate.
The feds are not trying to get the BIA out of the Osage, in fact they are making huge investments to make the Osage agency something to be proud of. They have more than doubled the compliance (field men & auditor) and accounting personnel in the minerals division and are investing in new computer systems being built special for Osage needs. This is just a few of the improvements already implemented or in the process, and shows the great commitment to the Osage agency in an era when every other Federal entity is being forced to cut back on spending due to budget cuts and sequestration.
I am sure that anonymous will vote for Cynthia, Linda and Stephanie and if they were to win, our checks would be $7.50. Over the years, there has been millions that Cynthia has tried to give back to the producers, by wanting to accept their lowest offer, and that speaks volumes. You saw how much respect she received when they went to Washington. I would have been embarrassed if I had been in her shoes.
Thank u. Galen for your quick response. I'm sure as heck some of us have more smarts not to believe in the rhetoric. Or fear mongering. Keep us conprised much appreciate you post here. This for some is news of course, and a lot to digest let alone we only want the truth. A very appreciated shareholder. The only way there will be justice is when the CFR'S are approved and the Federal Government isn't going anywhere we understand.
Good post Galen. It's a shame that you have to respond to people that can't even voice their thoughts without being a filthy mouth individual! That shows what kind of a low brow person they are and credit for you to speak up and challenge them to back up their statements with facts. They don't even know that Dudley isn't running this time.
Funny how they all jump in when you mention the Osage Nation taking over the Mineral Estate but never comment otherwise. If you're smart, that right there ought to tell you something. The BIA had to correct what they had been doing wrong for as long as they plan to stay and manage the Trust because we won the lawsuit. Those new CFRs work to the advantage of the Feds a lot more than they do to the Osages. You don't change the terms and conditions of leases out from under the lessees without grandfathering in their original agreements. Anyone new to the oil patch is fair game. What has happened with Chapparal and Encana that have left and sold their leases? Osage News wrote: Both companies told The Journal Record that DUE TO NEW REGULATIONS and poor returns on the expensive wells, it wasn’t economically feasible to continue. >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.osagenews.org/article/horizontal-wells-too-costly-two-companies-osage-county A small sampling to prove a point may work with some but not with anyone who wants the bigger picture and a more comprehensive and detailed sampling involving 30 to 40 examples not just 4 or 5.
Why isn't Galen responding to the Energy Services LLC comment above? Nothing to clarify here or is he in full agreement and a collaborator with the Osage Nation as it goes about developing the mineral estate out from under the authority of the Mineral Council?
Anonymous @ 6:38: if you don’t stop saying such silly things people are going to start thinking I am paying to you to tee up questions so I can talk about things I want to clear-up.
First, one of the best little known facts about the new CFR’s is how completely they clarify that the Osage Minerals Council is the Osage government entity that the BIA must, by rule of law, deal with on all Minerals matters. I never tried to actually count them all, but there must be about forty different places where this fact is referenced in the document. Many were newly added on purpose and some were replacement language for when the old ones said “Osage Tribal Council”. It would have been easy to substitute the easier, from a legal standpoint, “Osage Nation” in those instances, but that didn’t happen.
Second, while we purposely tried to find methods of fixing what needed to be fix in a simple and easy to administer manner, the new CFR’s create far more BIA work and investment in manpower than what was happening before. They do not benefit the BIA except to make them more efficient and responsive to managing the Osage Trust.
Third, no changes were made to leases that were not already clearly defined as allowable in the leases and CFR’s. But nearly all the changes are in effect immediately upon acceptance with no grandfathering in. There are several things that cannot be changed in a lease, such rate of royalty, length of term and size of the lease etc, but other changes such as how to properly measure and value royalty minerals can and were changed.
Both Encanna and Chaparral had short term exploration agreements that were for developing Horizontal drilling techniques’in the Mississippi lime. The center and eastern portion of the County, where both of them were operating, had less consistent results than what we are experiencing in the West. This is the only reason why both stated to us they were not continuing with the Horizontal experiment.
Encanna is also going through complete corporate restructuring and has sold most all their holdings in the Mid- Continent region, not just the Osage. However the company that bought out their Osage holdings has already leased more new acreage than Encanna did and has a more aggressive planned drilling program.
Chaparral has certainly not slowed down their Osage operations. Besides investing nearly half a Billion dollars the CO2 flood of their Burbank field, that have leased a lot of new acreage to expand their vertical well drilling program. They were both the top nominator and top purchaser in our March lease sale. This sale had very active bidding and realized the second highest average price per acre of any lease sale in the modern era by the way.
So explain the Energy Services, LLC angle and how they are able to encroach upon what the Mineral Council should be doing with regard to developing the Mineral Estate as mandated by the ON Constitution.
ONES or Osage Nation Energy Services LLC is an underfunded creation of the John Redeagle that I suspect was originally meant to be some sort of vehicle to benefit Rod Hartness, but has not been able to do much of anything. They did get a contract to furnish auxiliary labor for a pipeline passing through the County for a time, but even that has gone away.
And even if they ever do get some funding they could never be a threat the Council or the interests of the Headright holders. Their mission is to look for support business for the energy sector, like the pipeline labor deal. They have always been very submissive to the will of the Council, talking to us before they even look into some opportunity they are thinking of getting into. For instance Jill Jones, their director, brought a gentleman a few weeks ago that was wanting to start a business treating tank bottoms with some new method he had that would salvage more saleable oil from the bottoms, thus increasing the royalty we would receive over conventional tank bottom purchases. She didn’t have to do that any more than the current tank bottom purchasers had to come to the council before selling their services to producers, but she did so out of respect for the Council and wanting to make sure we were OK with what they were looking at. But even if they somehow got the funding to go into some sort of direct production enterprise they would still have to get leases, and pay us royalty and bonuses just like any outside producer has to do.
So they don't operate under your umbrella and auspices? What happens when they aren't so respectful and try to compact the mineral estate or worse, transition it over from the BIA to the Osage Nation with a Federally Chartered Corporation under the 1934 Indian Reorganization Act with the approval of some future administration? What do they need a building for if they aren't going to fill it up with employees who will be doing what?
In your fertile imagination, I suppose anything could happen. This Osage Nation Energy Services has the potential to get into energy related businesses and return millions upon millions of tax free dollars to the Osage people, shareholders and non-shareholders alike, pulling shoulder to shoulder with the producers. It costs the shareholders absolutely nothing, but we will still get our share, right along with our head right check. If you want to keep sitting on your front porch in your grandmother’s rocking chair while waiting on the mailman to bring your quarterly check, you go right ahead. The rest of us will be plowing ahead under a new Mineral Council, a fresh, forward looking Congress, and under Geoff Standing Bear’s leadership, to get this Osage Nation back on the map of success again. Success was handed to us back in the 1920’s. This time we are going to have to earn it, and that’s exactly what is about to happen.
To anonymous11:56 pm: I’ve always been worried about the Osage Nation Chief and Congress being able to compact the Minerals without Mineral Council approval or even input. That is one of the main reasons why I worked so hard to get those Osage Constitutional amendments before the voters two years ago. They would have made it constitutionally impossible for them try such a thing. The amendments all received a majority vote, but didn’t get the necessary super majority needed for passage, so we are still exposed to that possibility.
But we are in no immediate danger since the Nation can’t compact anything without having a clean audit for three straight years and that hasn’t happened for even one year yet.
Also Maria Whitehorn introduced bill ONCA 13-62 in the current session that she felt was necessary to make clear the Osage Congress would have to be involved in compacting, not just the Chief acting alone. I warned her in an open Council meeting that I would fight her bill if she didn’t include some exclusionary language that exempted them from minerals compacting. She failed to add that language so I contacted friends in the Congress that assured me it would not pass as written. True to their word language was added in committee that gives the Minerals Council veto power over any compacts having to do with Minerals operations. But this still just a law and laws can be easily changed so we still need the amendments.
The Federally chartered corporation idea would be very problematic and probably impossible for anyone to try without U.S. Congress action to clear the way, but it is interesting you should mention it. When Cynthia, Dudley, Curtis and Melvin when to Washington with the producers to demand that somebody “do something” to stop the BIA from ruining the Osage oil industry with the new CFR’s, that is exactly the solution that Sen. Inhoff came up with to solve the problem. Andrew and I spent hours talking on the phone with his chief of staff trying to convince them that first of all, that the CFR changes were reasonable and necessary so there no need for them to get involved at all. And secondly, any move to bust the Osage Trust and create a chartered corporation would meet with very strong Osage opposition, probably even from the misguided Council members that had been in his office demanding that he “do something”.
Thank you Galen. You are right. Strong opposition from 4000 Osage Shareholders is what Sen. Inhoff will have if he continues to meddle. And if you could answer in your opinion if you can Galen, why is Maria Meddling with the affairs of the ME? Thank you for your dedication go righting the wrong.
It's more than just interesting that you should mention it: "The Federally chartered corporation idea would be very problematic and probably impossible for anyone to try without U.S. Congress action to clear the way..." because I have it written in my notes of a phone conversation with Geoffrey Standing Bear PRIOR to his election to the ON Congress, his suggestion of a Federally Chartered Corporation for the Mineral Estate under the umbrella of the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934. I don't know who's fooling who here, Galen, but if I were you, I would take this information under very serious advisement. Who has Senator Imhoff been talking to? Geoffrey Standing Bear? Because this is a VERY obscure business idea and suggestion for the future of the Mineral Estate and it's got to be more than a mere coincidence. See if you can find out who has contributed to Geoffrey's campaign and if Imhoff or any PAC that thinks that Imhoff is pretty shows up, that will be very important and telling information.
To April 26, 2014 at 7:15 AM. I still maintain that anything minerals related in association with the Energy Services, LLC should be brought under the control and administration of the Minerals Council as so stated in Article XV of the Osage Nation Constitution. That isn't how it's set up now and it should be because if it isn't it will lead to problems later.
Galen....Please explain what "Compacting" is as it applies or might apply to the minerals estate. I think I know ? but probably don't understand completely.
My notes referencing the Fed Chartered Corp. are written on a piece of paper with the date printed at the bottom of the page of 4/26/10. The phone conversation with Geoffrey StandingBear took place within a week or so of that time. During this conversation, I asked him to explain what he meant in his campaign brochure that he sent out at that time which stated verbatim under the Section titled Our Mineral Rights Must Be Protected, "I believe the answers are in a variant of the Corporate Charters authorized by the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934, but must be unique to the Osage and with stronger protections of Indian sovereignty. This cannot be similar to the Osage LLC, but rather a federally protected entity." What I understand this to mean is that he is wanting to take the current Federally held BIA administered ME trust, terminate it in order to create and set up some sort of Federally chartered (protected) corporation to transfer the income to as a replacement entity that is owned by the Osage Nation with an entirely new set of shareholders, presumably only Osages, but the parameters might be even more narrow that that. Clearly, it appears that this conversation must have taken place between Inhofe and Geoffrey StandingBear as well or how else has Inhofe turned up talking about the same concept by the same name four years later? It can't have come up right out of the blue. The big question that comes out of all of this is whose idea was this originally? Did it come from particular members of the U.S. Congress or from Geoffrey StandingBear? On the second page of the campaign brochure is this quotation, “I will listen to what the Osage people want from their government and use all my skills and experience to find ways to implement their wishes into the Osage political system.” I don't know what Osage people Geoffrey StandingBear is talking about because my wishes with regard to spending or a per-cap have never been implemented by him at any time, ever.
BTW, it sounds like Inhofe has you and Yates over a barrel; either the new CFRs or a Federally Chartered Corporation for the Mineral Estate Trust. That sounds more like blackmail than it does like any sort of implementation of fiduciary obligation that I've ever heard of in the past.
Someone above asked me to explain “Compacting” as it relates to the Osage minerals management. Compacting and contracting are two terms that are often used interchangeably, but they are different legal vehicles that are used to reach similar outcomes. The end point of each is for tribes to take over some of the services a federal government agency currently must provide to that tribe. In the case of our minerals management that would be the BIA, since that is the only agency that has responsibility in the Osage, not the BIA, BLM and ONRR, as is the case for all other Indian minerals management. As is often said we are unique.
I’ll just use the term “Compacting” for both of these types of agreements for this discussion because one would be just as bad as another in our case. The details of compact agreements are negotiated, but here is how they generally are set up and how one with the Osage to take over our minerals management might look like. We would file a legal request under a federal law that permits these agreements. We say that we what to take over all or part of the services currently provided such as accounting, auditing, field compliance, (gauging, checking measurement devices, site compliance ect.) lease and production record keeping, solicitor services etc. Generally the government would then agree to provide funding to the tribe in the amount that it is currently spending to provide those services and the legal authority to conduct the service is conveyed to the tribe. Overall oversight responsibility remains with the government, but they are generally removed from much of a local presence to exercise that responsibility. If the tribe cannot adequately provide the services with the government funding, they have to come with the extra money and government funding is generally frozen at the agreement level because of the difficulty in getting any cost adjustments later on. And we know that even with the recent budget additions the Osage agency is still way underfunded. We would have to hire and train a large staff, because the BIA people aren’t likely to quit their BIA jobs. Computers, office equipment, vehicles, field equipment etc. all need to be acquired.
Well, you get the picture, and all these things are now provided free of charge to the Osages and if they are not provided in adequate manner to satisfy the governments trust responsibility, we can take legal action to force them to do so.
But the nuts and bolts financial risks are not the biggest downside in my opinion. Even though technically the DOI/BIA would still retain the trust responsibility to protect our mineral estate, if they have little local presence and are no longer conducting the services required to meet those trust responsibilities, how can we ever expect them to step up when we need them? We have a terrible time now getting them to take strong stands in such things as surface access issues with surface owners and industrial wind development over our biggest oil field. After compacting we would for all practical purposes be on our own against the state of Oklahoma, the huge land owners and even the powerful oil and gas industry.
To Osageblogger. Tina, the idea of a federally charted corporation is no unique or unheard of legal vehicle in Indian law and Sen. Inhofe and his staff would have no need of Geoff Standing Bear educating them on the subject. So drop the must be a conspiracy angle.
And Inhofe doesn’t have Andrew and me over any barrel, but Cynthia and her crew came very close to giving him an excuse to wreck the Osage Mineral Trust. And I really won’t breath completely easy until the new CFR’s are in place so that we are out of danger . Inhofe is a notorious enemy of Indian people (remember the “midnight rider of a few years ago?) And only damn fools would go to him and beg him to stick his nose in Osage business. Luckily the lies that were being told around Washington that day about the proposed CFR’s were easy to disprove with verifiable facts and figures, so Andrew and I were able to show that the perfect excuse he thought he had been handed to wreck the Osage trust was full of holes. But as I said, I won’t breathe completely easy until the chance he was given to wreck us is safely removed.
Conspiracy? Don't talk down to me, Galen. What is StandingBear's angle and how does this extremely "problematic" idea show up four years ago in HIS campaign literature? I have StandingBear's old brochure when he ran for Congress in 2010 open on my computer and the text reads as follows verbatim: "I propose we separate the governance of day-to-day activities of the Mineral Estate from the Government of the Osage Constitution. How this is done will require cooperation of the Chief, the Osage Congress, the Osage Minerals Council, and the United States Department of the Interior. There are solutions which will provide close federal supervision and Osage Shareholder control of the Osage Mineral Estate while also respecting the new laws enacted by the Osage Constitutional Government. I believe the answers are in a variant of the Corporate Charters authorized by the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934, but must be unique to the Osage and with stronger protections of Indian sovereignty. This cannot be similar to the Osage LLC, but rather a federally protected entity. With my experience, knowledge, and hopes as an Osage Shareholder with Osage children and grand children who are not shareholders, I believe I can make a major contribution to protecting our rights." Don't think you can deflect Geoffrey's responsibility in regard to putting forward this idea and if I were being a responsible member of the Minerals Council, I would speak to him directly about any conversation that he has had with Jim Inhofe about this idea of instituting a Federally chartered corporation to replace the Mineral Estate Trust. Second, the 1938 Act has now been amended to read: "The lands, moneys, and other properties now or hereafter held in trust or under the supervision of the United States for the Osage Tribe of Indians, the members thereof, or their heirs and assigns, shall continue subject to such trusts and supervision until January 1, 1984, and thereafter until otherwise provided by Congress." What this means is that the U.S. Congress can unilaterally walk away from the Trust at any time without an Act of the U.S. Congress to do so. It's in the 1906 Allotment Act as amended. No CFRs, old or new, will make any difference whatsoever. So again, if I were you, I wouldn't be making false statements about the new CFRs being "in place so that we are out of danger." We have been in danger since 1978 when that amendment went into effect and if you don't know that much, you still have a lot to learn. Going back to StandingBear, nobody puts forward ideas in their campaign literature unless they have thought it out at length and in great depth. An idea like this in the Osage could scuttle and "swift boat" any campaign if that idea and what it actually means to the future of the Federal Osage Mineral Estate Beneficiary Trust were actually known. You're the elected official paid and in charge of protecting the Mineral Estate Trust so get to the bottom of what StandingBear is really up to before the election takes place and report back to us with this information, please. If he is elected Chief, he will be in a position to do exactly as he pleases as it concerns the Mineral Estate with NO ONE TO STOP HIM as soon as we get a clean audit and that could be as little as three years from now. You've admitted before that you have been naive in the past and for that I have admired you because not many men have the strength of character to admit to it. There is more to the smoke and mirrors that have been going on here and for the sake of the Shareholders, you need to act on your responsibility to get to the bottom of it.
Reply to Osagebloger on 4/27/2014 @ 1:32 AM--- I would bet that Inhofe has had considerable experience with Federally Chartered Corporations, as well as do many others in the US Congress. This would be a cheap, easy, and legal way for the Feds to shred and shed the 1906 Act, and the responsibility it carries. No thanks! I think Inhofe might have made a thinly veiled threat to do just that too, after the 4 dumb-butt MC members took their little top secret jaunt to Washington to try to negate everything the Negotiated Rulemaking Committee had done. Then, after both the Feds, and the shareholders had spent a ton of time and money to update the cfr’s, Boone, Bear, Whitehorn, Core, and Red Eagle voted for a delay in the procedures for an INDEFINITE PERIOD OF TIME. This was not “protecting the mineral estate”, this was putting the future of the mineral estate in great jeopardy. This is what was STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. Thank God, the DOI ignored their ignorance, and went right ahead with the cfr update. I was astounded at the MC debate last night that many of the MC candidates had never even read the proposed new cfr’s (and probably not even the old ones), yet they are applying for the job of administering them for the benefit of the shareholders. Preposterous.
Speaking of the MC debate, our choices are a little thin, but we should be able to get a council elected who can and will do the job. My choices at this time are EVERETT WALLER (a great public speaker, very knowledgeable and experienced, and lives the culture), GALEN CRUM (very knowledgeable, cares a great deal), ANDREW YATES (very knowledgeable, long experience, cares very much), RAY MCCLAIN (intelligent, experienced, good business knowledge, and seems to care very much), TALEE RED CORN (intelligent, experienced, business oriented, culturally based, served on MC1), and KATHERINE RED CORN (culturally based, served on MC1, intelligent, was always great at seeing all sides of a question). Melvin Core has had many good ideas, but he has some apologizing to do for his thoughtless trip to Washington. Joe Cheshewalla has worked in the oilfields all his life, and worked as a BIA field man for many years. He could be an excellent choice. Kenny Big Horse has been around a long time and should know how things work. He also could be an excellent choice. William St. John is totally based in information technology, and sees how important this will be. The others bring nothing with them that could help, and some have proven they are trying to wreck the train with what they do know.
One more thing, Galen. I heard from two credible sources that the language to give the Minerals Council authority and autonomy over any compact decision involving the Mineral Estate has recently been removed from Whitehorn's bill in one of the Committees. Can you get to the bottom of this too please. Thank you.
Right Galen. We need the BIA and not a compact or a contract no matter how much improvement they still need. Trust obligation is key and the stalking wolves and coyotes are at our gates. Osages seem to have a hell of a time trying to get the jam out from between their toes so to speak so never mind them ever trying to run our minerals business.
gfy osageblogger. Looks like you caught Geoffrey Standing Bear red handed with the smoking gun. I heard he want to get rid of the BIA from others before he was elected on Congress last time for the same reason and every body ignored the warning. Damn fools if you ask me. Not that that hairbrained kook who owes money all over town will be any better. You were right to raise a stink about that primary election we didn't need too. Look at the choice it has staring us right in the face. Get rid of every member of Congress that went along with it. If any body can't see that the shareholders are in more trouble now than they ever have been before then they are just being stupid.
I agree with Osageblogger. If "Andrew and I spent hours talking on the phone with his chief of staff trying to convince them..." not to get involved by ending the trust and to accept the new CFRs then you have openly admitted that Inhofe violated his trust obligation as an elected member of the U.S. Senate and the government of the United States by acting against the fiduciary obligation the government has to the Osages in suggesting to end to that very fiduciary obligation that is not in the best interests of the Osage Nation or the headright owners. Someone should file a complaint with the U.S. Congressional Committee that hears such complaints against the members of the U.S. Congress. Stand up for your rights, Galen. Especially since we just won a big case in court against the BIA for violation of its trust obligations. Is there no end to what these Federal people will perpetrate against the Indians in general and the Osages in particular?
Osage blogger: I don’t know who your “credible sources” are but I was in that government operations committee meeting when ONCA13-62 was passed out of committee with a do pass recommendation. I was the only person in the room that was not a Congress person except the Osage News reporter. The operative language in section 2 paragraph C reads “Any compacts pertaining to the Osage Minerals Estate SHALL be affirmed by resolution of the Osage Minerals Council.” So your “credible sources” are wrong about what came out of committee.
I drove to Pawhuska for the sole purpose of attending that meeting because of this bill and a resolution I was helping Sheppard through committee that Alice Buffalohead introduced at my request. It states in part “The Osage Nation seeks to acknowledge that any shares or fractionated shares of the mineral estate returned are part of the mineral estate administered by the Osage Minerals Council.” I asked to her to sponsor this resolution to ward off any confusion that might arise in any Congress persons mind (especially new ones) over who is to manage the return of mineral shares for any reason. This also was passed out of committee with a do pass recommendation.
And also, you guys sure caught Geoff red handed alright. He’s a tricky devil. He knew that four Osage Minerals Council members were going to run off to Washington with oil producers to beg the Senator to improperly intervene in legally conducted business between the Osage Minerals Council and the DOI/BIA. And Geoff, knowing that Inhofe was always looking for a chance to screw some Indians contacted him ahead of time to plant the idea of a federally chartered corporation in his mind just in case such an opurtunity should arise. Yup, I have to agree your evidence is indisputable.
No amount of sarcasm will change the fact that Geoffrey StandingBear, whom you support Galen, was touting the idea of a Federally chartered corporation to replace the BIA and the current Federal Mineral Estate Trust in his campaign literature four years ago when he ran for Congress. See it for yourself on page 2 under the Section titled, Our Mineral Rights Must Be Protected: http://edigital.iserver.net/osages/Standing_Bear_Campaign.pdf
I had a thought. When Galen was challenged to explain some things, he stepped up to the plate and defended his positions right here on this forum and presented facts to back them up. There is an old saying, "Stand up and take it like a man" Whether you agree with him or not he did quite well I think. By contrast...with all the negative comments and accusations concerning Cynthia on this blog she has yet to defend any of it here. Probably because the comments and accusations are based on facts and can't be defended unless she would tell a bold faced lie like she did at the debate last night. I agree with an earlier poster in that I hope voters outside of Pawhuska are listening.
When Galen was challenged to explain some other things about Standing Bear he evaded the issue altogether or became sarcastic in order to avoid having to confront the fact that Standing Bear, whom he supports for Chief, is for ending the Federal Mineral Estate Trust to replace it with a Federally Chartered Corporation. I find that to be very suspicious and wonder why he still supports Standing Bear when he now knows the facts.
Osageblogger, your catching and outing Standing Bear about his support of the Inhofe " solution " posted by Galen was priceless. You should savor the moment. It doesn't get better than that.
TONIGHT! Osage Minerals Council Candidate Debate. See http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/news-events/events/osage-minerals-council-candidate-debate#zoom=9&lat=36.4257&lon=-96.66046&layers=T0B00
How on earth could they possibly be THIS STUPID? From the Osage News Facebook page---> This afternoon, the Third Osage Nation Congress members voted unanimously to support a resolution (ONCR 14-06 sponsored by Congresswoman Maria Whitehorn) that expresses "confidence in the abilities of the Osage LLC board to restructure and build our non-gaming business interests of the Osage Nation."
Just returned from the Mineral Debate. First let me say that I have not changed my dream team members. Stephanie Erwin was the only one who didn’t show up. Either she didn’t think it was that important or she was sick again. One has to look at her twice. Is she up for the job?
Everett Waller was the hit of the night. Not only did he show us a delightful sense of humor, but he also let us know how extensive his knowledge is about the Mineral Estate.
The bad part of the debate is that most of the candidates didn’t answer the question that was asked. The only thing I can assume is they did not know the answer. For a few of them, it was down right embarrassing.
The evening ended with another lie from Ms. Boone. We have her recorded saying that not only did the Producers pay her way to Washington, but she would do it again. Tonight she told us she paid her own way (pretty much throwing Curtis Bear under the bus) to Washington. This change only came when she found out the Shareholders were not happy with them for going. Ms. Boone also said it was not a secret meeting. If it wasn’t why didn’t she inform the Chairman they were going. Don’t worry, Boone will be gone in June! I guess I will never understand her convoluted way of thinking.
The debate was recorded, but they had trouble getting it on line. By the time the second panel started, it was working. I was told that in a few days you can listen to it all via the computer.
I agree with Patricia. Through out the MC 1 and MC 2 Ms.Boone has had a fairly consistent history of lies and last night was just another example. The meeting in Washington might not have been a secret to those that went and the producers that paid for it but when the four of them went off with out informing the Chairman of the MC ( I guess she lost his phone number ) and other members, I guess it depends on your interpretation of "Secret" ? One of the producers said that he asked Cynthia, Melvin, Curtis and Dudley to go because he knew they would go and knew the others would not. And that's the truth, quote, unquote ! Ms Boone is a master of half truths and twisting things around so the story comes out her way and she has been doing it for a long time.
One candidate in the first round spent most of her time telling us about her family and children wasting time that could have been to address the question. It is my opinion that Stephanie Erwin didn't show because she has no credentials to be on the MC and that would have been very clear in the debate.
To me the main thing that was very disappointing last night was that as usual the audio was terrible ! Half of the time you couldn't hear the MC, the person asking the questions had a week voice and a bad microphone, you couldn't hear the questions and for the most part you couldn't hear what the candidates were saying. They kept changing the microphones trying to find one that worked but even at that several of the candidates spoke so softly you couldn't hear what they were saying. According to the bulletin, the audio and video was provided by the ON communications dept. This was the same problem that they had during the debates for Chief and asst Chief. If the Cultural center is going to continue to be used for occasions such as this I would like to see permanent improvements made to the sound system in the building and someone trained to operate it ! I am going to guess the recording that willl be available for us to listen to will be just the same as the last debate because the audio was picked up off the speakers on the wall. One behind the candidates and one in the back of the room. This also caused some echo in the microphones as the candidates spoke. This was pointed out after the last debate yet nothing was corrected. It's a shame because we would have liked to heard the questions and every bodys answer.
So stupid! Quote directly from the Osage Nation web site: "Through conditions set in treaties, the Osage Tribe was able to obtain the mineral rights to all of what is now Osage County." It was two Acts of Congress approved June 5, 1872 and March 3, 1873 that authorized the purchase of the Osage reservation from the Cherokee, not a treaty. The Tribe has the mineral rights because it has a deed to the Osage reservation in trust with the United States of America. When the reservation was partitioned among the individual Osages, the mineral rights were reserved to the Osage Tribe by the 1906 Allotment Act as an ownership right tracking right back to the property deed itself in the chain of title. Sheesh. Not even the Osage Nation knows what is has and how it has come to have it. Abysmal!
ReplyDeleteIf they don't even know what's what about the mineral rights how are they ever going to establish their claim on the water rights? Then they want to pick another fight with the State, like they did over the taxes, with this legislation for a water engineer office that will set up the conditions to provoke getting back into Court with the State of Oklahoma over water rights? Oh Lord! Does it ever end with these government plebeian neophytes?
DeleteThey have a new bill, ONCA 14-23, to give $125K for the Attorney General’s office for water rights work. If the minerals estate is going to suffer diminishment for what happens with this water issue just like they did with the tax reservation lawsuit that robbed us of our Federal Reservation status, this matter should come under the umbrella of the Minerals Council to oversee and manage not the crazed idiots of the Osage Nation.
DeleteThat's exactly right.
DeleteDid you see the debates when Standing Bear was at the podium? The highlights are reviewed at>>>
Deletehttp://osagenews.org/article/osage-principal-chief-candidates-answer-debate-questions-public (truncated version not the entire transcript) Words like "war" and "under attack" are always an emotional issue with men and we all know how well they handle emotions when push comes to shove.
DeleteSo now it’s “men” versus “women” huh. This rates high on my list of foolishness for you. You list is getting longer all the time, too.
Not even close. Has nothing to do with men vs. women. I can admit to the truth. Can you?
DeleteMore Mineral Council Candidates have filed. See https://www.facebook.com/OsageNews
ReplyDeleteThe Osage News has candidate information at http://osagenews.org/articles/Candidates
DeleteDon't we have prairie chickens on thw wind farm. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/28/critics-cry-foul-as-feds-place-lesser-prairie-chicken-on-threatened-species/
ReplyDeleteGreater not lesser prairie chickens. Good try though. See http://lektreks.org/field-trips-2/greater-prairie-chicken-viewing/
DeleteChief Osageblogger with Black Pencil, you can have the Greater Prairie Chicken"Tympanuchus cupido, for the unofficial Grouse of the Osage Shareholders. So, us Non-Osage Shareholders will be left to choose as our unofficial grouse the Lesser Prairie Chicken since both maybe on this Endangered List.
DeleteActing Chief of the Non-Osage Shareholders Homer F.
Not Chief Osageblogger with the eraser but with all that's gone before and as angry as I've been about some of it, don't think I haven't thought about running. Fortunately, the cooler part of my head prevailed. Service is what we are all about here on the Osage Blog and to get the word out about what is taking place in the Osage so as to provide the ability for those affected by it to be able to react immediately and respond to it openly and honestly. (On topic and no diatribes, please!)
DeleteDear Not Chief Osageblogger with Eraser, Guess it all started many years or moons ago. The warring warriors of different American Indian Tribes killed off some of the strongest,bravest and leaving only a few real talented members. But, along came the US Cavalry to finish off the rest. Sure not all became Post Indians, some and probably more per cap then any other tribe , the Osage did educate their children to become professionals. There was a Hope in this old blogger heart that this one person that I guess I've been reading on blogs for several years would run for Mineral Council. Even if the main reason I'm around , that person apparently is on the opposite side, but you sometimes can reap more by saving then by spending and I believe most of us Non-Osage Shareholders will join you Osage Shareholders, that to say that is true. I'm sorry to say things us humans have no control over, that gets in our plans. Maybe, between how and closing a westward wind will blow down from the mountains, a wise candidate, a person for all seasons, a person that knows the value of a dime and a million. So, in closing Not Chief Osageblogger, I've felt your angry, closing with a quote from Lincoln once said of Congress Conness"that he " is habitually careful not to say what he does not know," and described him on another occasion as " one of our United States Senators, of high standing, whom I cheerfully indorse. One more day, and someone's missing in the Osage Mineral Council race. H
ReplyDeleteH, is this person you speak of in the past or present blogger? And you said though this person is contrary to your views why would want someone sitting on the council if that were the case? And if you could describe this person or blogger in one word what word would you use to describe this blogger. Just curious. Thanks Homer. Appreciate your writing techniques and would love to sit with you one day and talk.
DeleteYou, may remember the " Florescene " no matter what that person wrote I'd just thought that was just about as close to right as it could be except of one. A orchid can bloom a flower but so can eventually a 100 year cactus. Differently the past, for I have missed the trade mark ... between words or sentences, but I had warned that that could have been traced way back for good I believed. Do think our ancestors have had one on one talks, and you know my score on being right . H
DeleteFrom the Osage News Facebook page, a notification reads, "The Filing deadline for Osage Minerals Council candidates is 5 p.m., April 7. So, apparently this deadline has been extended out from the 31st of March.
ReplyDeleteThe deadline to file to run for Osage Nation Congress is today, March 31, 2014 at 4:30 P.M.:
FROM THE OSAGE NATION ELECTION OFFICE REGARDING THE CONGRESSIONAL RACE: If you are wishing to file for candidacy please remember to bring the following with you:
1. Cashier's Check/Money Order made out to Osage Nation Election Office. Filing Fees are $300 for Congress. No personal checks or cash will be accepted.
2. Osage Nation Membership Card.
3. Driver's License
4. Proof of a separate bank account in the name of the candidate or the candidate's campaign.
To request filing forms please e-mail electionoffice@osagetribe.org or call 918-287-5286.
See http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/what-we-do/elections/minerals-election
DeleteThe list of General Election Candidates for 2014:
Delete1. Alice Buffalohead
2. Dr. Ron Shaw
3. Otto Hamilton
4. Michael Kidder
5. Tony Whitehorn
6. Clair Wood
7. Doug Cowan
8. Homer Troy Big Eagle
9. Daniel Boone
10. Angela Marie Pratt
11. William “Kugee” Supernaw
12. James "Jim" Norris
13. Beverly Brownfield
14. Teresa Bates Rutherford
15. W. Jacque Jones
16. Justin Mays
17. John Starr Bighorse
18. Richard Luttrell
19. John Free
20. Joe Conner
21. Cecelia Tallchief
See the list as of yesterday, 3-31-14 at http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/what-we-do/elections/filing-for-candidacy and click on the text, 2014 General Election Filed Candidates.
DeleteThe 2014 Hun-Kah Session of the Osage Nation Congress has begun today. For information about this session see:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/congress-legislative-branch/sessions
http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/congress-legislative-branch/committee-information
http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/congress-legislative-branch/legislation
http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/congress-legislative-branch
New article>> http://osagenews.org/article/former-pawhuska-village-five-man-board-members-plead-not-guilty
ReplyDeleteHey Denver! The Osage News Facebook page is reporting that Osage Minerals Council candidate Melvin Core will have a meet and greet at Osage-owned Tocabe Restaurant in Denver, Colo., on April 12 from 5-7 p.m. Dinner will be included at the event. Tocabe is located at 3536 W. 44th Ave. Please RSVP with Melvin's daughter, Leslie Core-Drevecky at sonnerlcd@yahoo.com or by phone: 303-375-9428. Also, for upcoming events, see http://osagenews.org/events
ReplyDelete"There is no sensible reason why money could not be allocated to protect Osage headright shareholders’ rights with no strings attached." The hell you say, Geoffrey. You selfish self-centered opportunist!!!!!! When have you ever done a damn thing for non-Headright owners who are neither young or old? Where do you get off trying to appropriate Osage Nation money for the mineral estate when you have never put forward a bill as a member of the Osage Congress to help anyone but those who you live around and rub elbows with? You've got one a hell of a nerve. Before you start handing out to the cash for the Mineral Estate benefit, YOU GET A PER-CAP OUT TO THOSE MEMBERS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY WHO REALLY NEED IT!
ReplyDeleteCan't you all see through the act this guy has had going for 20 some-odd-years or more? He could care less about anyone who isn't in his immediate circle. It will amount to a travesty well beyond that of what Jim Gray pulled if this guy gets elected and and it'll be just as bad if that Gray woman gets into office as well. What a horrible mess this new government has amounted to since it started out.
Guess the Elections Bureau guidelines eliminates any write ins votes ?? Since I've received no opposition in the Chief of the Non-Osage Shareholders, and have won that seat by acclamation. So, with 4000 Non-Osage Shareholders under our wing, believe if you choosing a satellite party that won't get under their skin think again. That could become 14,000 Non-Osage, Non-Shareholder, count noses then, and out of this group will step forward my replacement to forge what's right for all without pain, financial hardships and segregation.
DeleteChief of the Non-Osage Shareholders Homer Fincannon Non-OsageShareholders.com
Get that Per-Cap out. Stop the GOVERNMENT Bloat! It's not their money it is yours you decide not them, wake up ask yourselves why hasn't the ONG put this issue on the ballot before another 20 yrs of spending is committed?
DeleteTopic: Mismanagement of the Trust department in the Tribal Minerals Council. There was a time last year that the Trust department had someone in charge who was taking Trust related documents and "stuffing them in a drawer". My nephew and I were both told there was a period of employee turnover and a back log of processing Trust documents from different people in our many phone calls. One of those, "you didn't hear it from me but...." But I've learn of the larger issue from a person who would absolutely know the workings of that department. I apologize that I cannot divulge that person's name as it wouldn't be fair to him/her. My brother died in February. Last Fall, he had told his family members that he changed his Trust by removing his estranged wife as the beneficiary and adding his son. Probate only has the original Trust. Nobody is owning up to what has really happened in the Trust department. They, of course, will not admit to the possibility that, given the total mismanagement from the person in charge at the time and the complete break in the process of creating and amending our Trusts, that my brother's amendment is lost, misplaced, trashed, who knows. I've spoken with clerks in that department, the field solicitor, and probate. We have a ton of what I suppose is circumstantial evidence that my brother changed his Trust. And of course we are challening the original document but I fear our challenge will not be given merit because they want to keep a lid on what really happened. In a court of law such incompetance would very likely favor the opposing side.I am wondering if my family is the first family affected from the fallout. My brother amended his Trust around the Sept-Oct, possibly November timeframe. At the time we didn't know we should have paid closer attention to actual dates conversations took place. Who would have thought a person in such an important position would be mishandling Trust documents?
ReplyDeleteTook 2 years for trust to be paid out untill we threatened a law suit. This trust was updated in the 80's when my father was going into bypass surgery. They with held 160,000. Sorry you need to get a lawyer this is not the first time this has happened.
DeleteI also wanted to ask did you witness the update or was he verbal about the update? I had witnessed my fathers update.
DeleteI have also heard very recently that the girls hired there to handle the trusts are taking personal phone calls, playing games on their computers and filing their fingernails instead of doing their work on the trusts which include trusts in probate, new trusts and any amendments to previously drawn up trusts. At one point, about a year ago and this may still be true today, they were backlogged 60 trusts in probate and who knows what has happened to the new or amended trusts that were in the in-box. I also heard that once everything has been handled in Oklahoma and the probate documents are transferred to Albuquerque, it takes less than a month to finish up the process at that level. There is no reason that it should take more than three months worse case for everything to be gotten ready to send on to Albuquerque. Melvin Core and Myron Red Eagle are in charge of who is hired to work on these trusts. If you aren't satisfied with not having competent, trained, efficient employees with a paralegal education or background to handle these trust estates for you as a Shareholder, you know what to do in June when you vote for the members of the Mineral Council.
DeleteAre they doing all this stuff with the trusts on purpose or they just too clueless to get the job done?
DeleteHey, I wrote the original. No, nobody witnessed the the update. My two brothers and I inherited our grandparents home. We are selling it for developement. Last November we thought we had a possible buyer. My brother that died recently had been separated from his wife since July '13. He and I discussed the situation of selling the land and him needing to get the divorce going if he didn't want "S" to receive any of that $. He said he'd get it started and he said he already took care of his Trust...changing it to his son. "That part's done" is what he said. And he did get the divorce started...we have proof of the phone calls and money receipts from the attorney office. I have no reason to not believe what he told me. He and my dad took a trip to Michigan T-giving weekend. They discussed the land and the Trust. He told my dad he had already taken care of the Trust. He also told my other brother that it was done. He explained to my neice-in-law why he put their kids as the 2nd benefactor, skipping her. He had already asked for their SSN's for the paperwork before that convo. He told my nephew and niece-in-law that there would be a 30 challenge period because of the change. I'm sure this is a story told a thousand times..."he told me." Why would someone who texts his estranged wife to stop using his last name in October lie to his family about changing his Trust? She posted this tidbit on her Facebook. My nephew turned off his phone shortly after my brother died so we can only access phone and text msgs back to December. If we could access his records and look for the phone numbers, we could prove...or not prove I suppose...that he called that office. The Trust department is supposed to keep a record of what mail is received and what gets mailed out. I asked them about that but they just referred me to Probate. The thing is....if he hadn't told so many people that he did it...not that he's going to do it....if we all didn't know that he had moved on and was taking care of his son...we wouldn't be happy that she would receive the money but we'd live with it. We're not a family where he would have had to lie about it....he just wouldn't have said anything at all. I'm hoping that others will read this and if they or someone they know had dealings with the Trust department last Fall and still do have an official document sent back to them...that they check on it. Don't settle for the answer: we're working on it...we have a backlog. You need to demand they locate it and have it in their hands when they call you back. I don't want anyone else's papers to have disappeared...but if it has happened, the sooner you know the better for you. Too, it would help with our case if it's proven more docs have disappeared. We may very well be the first to deal with their mess.
DeleteI believe under trained and lack of supervision. I see incompetence at the highest level of authority.
DeleteTo Anonymous April 5, 2014 at 12:39 PM—It was Ciaradon Carpenter’s desk, the girl who refused the drug test and was fired last month, where the trust documents were found stuffed in a drawer, and the number 60 won’t even come close. If they will show you her employment application, you will see that Cynthia Boone was a reference for Ciaradon on that application. Remember Cynthia Boone also trying to pass a resolution in support of that dope head down in Hominy who was supposedly banned from the dances last summer? That should tell you who needs to go in June. You can’t hardly blame Core for taking the word of a fellow elected official.
DeleteWhine, whine, whine, moan, moan, moan. Core and Red Eagle made the choice to hire her and the ultimate responsibility always lies with the ones who make the executive hiring decision. Why does everyone running things always put forward excuses instead of manning up and admitting to making mistakes? If you never admit to a mistake you can never take steps to correct it. Getting it right is easy. Getting it wrong isn't because you have to backtrack to make corrections and they take twice the time and twice the effort.
DeleteWow! Thanks for the intel Anonymous about the exact person and the info you provided. I have to ask: how many drawers? How many docs? How many were put in a file folder and placed somewhere? How many were thrown in the trash? Our circumstantial evidence continues to grow. Yes, it's circumstantial but at some point those who review the challenges will hopefully say, "Hey, wait a minute...." If anyone else has more info to share I'd really appreciate it. By posting it you'll also be helping the next person because we all know there will be many 'next' people to follow.
DeleteDoes anyone have suggestions on how we can approach this in our Challenge? Do y'all know what info gets the superintendent to honestly consider our testimony? Of course something on paper from my brother is the best piece of evidence but if we had that we wouldn't be in this position. We are able to show that we knew he changed his Trust even before we found out that Probate only had the original doc...that we were operating on the knowledge that it was changed. And we can show that we started asking questions about a lost or misplaced amandenet before we found out about Ciaradon's crap. We definitely have a timeline of info. I guess I'm looking for some kind of verbiage where, after reading it, the Super has no choice but to say, "Hold on here; we must consider that an Amendment was created, or certainly requested but the paperwork was never processed." Thanks everyone for taking the time to write what you know!
DeleteSee the article, Land Buy-Back Program: Important Facts for Landowners at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/04/02/land-buy-back-program-important-facts-landowners
ReplyDeleteIt's about time somebody caught up to this...http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/03/12/buy-back-violates-international-human-rights Read the forced sale section: "As is now clear, “controlling level of interest” referred to a mechanism in the federal Indian Land Consolidation Act (ILCA) that permits tribes that acquire a simple 51 percent majority interest in allotted or restricted fee lands to obtain the minority owners’ land interests by forced sale."
DeleteRemember Eminent Domain in the Osage Nation Constitution?
DeleteMore on Cobell. See http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/03/26/judge-denies-cobell-class-representatives-82-million-154165
ReplyDeleteSee also http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/03/03/cobell-dishonored-interiors-buy-back-plan
DeleteSince plans and events have too be set in place ahead of time, I suppose leaking out that The Texas Osage Association Dallas/Fort Worth meeting next Sat. April 12,2014 3:00PM to?. You can check out Jim Ryan's, Osage for Fiscal Responsible or Shan Whitehorn, believe both can be found on Facebook and this probably be formally announced later on this site. As far as Chief Homer goes to Cow Town episode. You will be able to pick me out a Penny's two pocket blue and white checker short sleeve shirt, a fake bow string turquoise bolo tie, with matching ring if I can get it on, may have to cut out the salt for next week. Will be reporting back on fashion statement which you girls on the blog are always interested in, how many strands of pearls around, or hair color. But, also the tougher answers to the tougher questions , like a per cap vote, your thoughts on Non-Osage Shareholders,and if this existing Osage Mineral Council has exceed The Privacy Act of 1974, the BIA supplied the addresses for the Goodwill letter, but at what a amount of cut in the HPP lawsuit settlement, a few of those committee members maybe can answer. So, if not banish will report back on Non-OsageShareholders.com , on Facebook,Twitter and of course on the Osage Blog. H
ReplyDeleteThanks Homer. The Texas Osage Association Dallas/Fort Worth meeting will be held at 3:00 P.M. on Saturday April 12, 2014. The meeting location will be the Mellow Mushroom restaurant, 3455 Blue Bonnet Circle, Fort Worth Texas 76109. It is located in the Blue Bonnet Circle historic district, very close to TCU. We hope that all the Osage in the DFW Metroplex area can attend. All candidates running for Osage office and all Osage are invited to share their platforms and ideas. Special thanks to Shan Whitehorn who was instrumental in finding the location and setting the date and time. We are still looking for anyone who will step up in the Houston area to set a meeting there. More at https://www.facebook.com/groups/234024393278360/?ref=br_rs
DeleteHomer's Five Points and Promise:
Delete1) Seeking up to date improvements to the safety services.
2) Stop the raiding of the Tribal purse by the "cronies"the backers of one of my opponents.
3) These desperate insider cohorts have given over $xxxx to XXXX campaign, and will, in my
opinion, be seeking out favoritism and will be taking direction from them.
4) I am one of you. One of the forgotten, lonesome and friendless off the non-reservation members.
A typical average Joe. I won't make any underhanded country club deals.
5) My only chance of winning is up to you. I am asking you for your vote, I'll listen
to you and only you and will build a coalition with newly elected and a few
seated council persons to get things accomplished for the Tribe and your land, that I've lived on,
hunted, fish on before and truly loved.
So, that's what I would have said if had a chance next Saturday afternoon, this gives me more
time to mingle . Now is it the pinky finger you point out when holding a drink ? H
Homer, I hope you are alright. You cannot run for Osage Nation elected office as a member of the Minerals Council. This is an Osage Blog and this section is for Osage shareholders. It's fine to comment about matters that concern Osage shareholders but to suggest to Osages that they can vote for you is a bit off. Not possible. It's never going to happen.
DeleteOsages, sure I'm all right Just planted a seed., got blossoms on my new tomato plants also the squash. The late John Palmer the adopted Sioux, now a Osage an a known attorney and not as well known a Osage farmer. One of his last speeches probably at election time on the steps of the Osage agency, he told the listeners the importance of not abandonment of growing your own food. I believe he was right, waiting on a oil check can put degrees on the blood pressure, but down on your knees working and growing fresh vegetables takes those degrees off the meter. Oh, that Five Points and Promises , got me 444 votes not enough to win here, but it would have been at the OMC. Did got 11,000 votes one time used $44 campaign cost had a great time. H
DeleteHomer, you should sue the BIA for failure to represent you and other non-Osage shareholders. I can find nothing in the law that gives only Osage people to be representation, especially now that the Tribe is not culturally part of the Mineral Trust.
DeleteWhat's that supposed to mean? The Minerals Trust from day it was created by an Act of Congress included members of the Osage Tribe and the culture has never had anything to do with it. The Culture like the NA Religion has always been optional from the very beginning and there has never been mention of either one in the 1906 Allotment Act or any of its amendments. The Trust relationship has always been with the Osage Tribe and the Osage beneficiaries of the trust, their heirs and assigns until subsequent Acts of Congress have amended the original 1906 Act. You may have a point. The fact that they are shareholders too and at one point along the way until the U.S. Congress prohibited it, headrights could be sold, assigned or transferred to non-Osages.
DeleteWho did what when>>>>>>>> 2nd OMC to July 2013>>>>>>>>>>>> http://osagenation.co/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/2013-0820_2OMC_ResolutionIndex.pdf
ReplyDeleteNew Supt.Hale told me last week that that was part of the settlement with the lawsuit, to supp;y the addresses to the OMC. And like you I don/t see that in the approved column. H
DeleteHeads UP! Today at 5 p.m. is the last day to file to run for Minerals Council.
ReplyDeleteRED ALERT--HERE WE GO AGAIN! See Wind hearing set for April 10 at fairground at http://barnsdalltimes.com/http:/barnsdalltimes.com/news/wind-hearing-set-for-april-1-at-fairgrounds BE SURE TO ATTEND THIS MEETING TO SHARE YOUR OPPOSITION TO THIS NEW WIND FARM CALLED MUSTANG RUN.
ReplyDeleteResults of the the March 19, 2014 lease auction at http://osagenews.org/article/minerals-council-lease-sale-garners-356200-sales
ReplyDeleteCompare to the lease auction on Oct. 27, 2010 at http://osagenews.org/article/osage-oil-lease-sale-nets-864940-oil-and-gas-summit
For up to the minute reports from the Osage News about the Candidates and their activities, see https://www.facebook.com/OsageNews
ReplyDeleteOMC Meeting today. When is Maria Whitehorn going to stay out of Minerals Business? Is the OMC ever going to take over their accounts or what?
ReplyDeleteMaria whitehorn shareholder in the first has more rights than a shareholder by itself. Careful. And there are 4000 of us. And I'm right. Now you did not explain how she may be intrepidating, please expand. You have every right afforded a voice as well. Regardless the council has to listen. Arbitrarily, there's no argument. Off the minutes or on the minutes. We are unique. Knowledge is key.
DeleteMaria is not a shareholder and I think she does not understand.
DeleteWell then why does she continue to butt her head in z place where she does not belong? Thanks Patricia spurr-bright.
Delete
ReplyDeleteIf anyone is still considering supporting Cynthia Boone, you must read the Letters to the Editor section on page 23 of the April, 2014 edition of the Osage News. Many local individuals have been on her hot and heavy for over a year now for lying, misleading, and failing to properly represent the stakeholders. Now, she’s tried her crap in CA., and it didn’t work. Now THIS Ca. stakeholder is calling for her immediate dismissal. I’ll bet the CA. Osages are wondering how many other lies she has told them, and they had believed her. She makes it tougher to defend her all the time, doesn’t she girls? I think Cynthia Boone has bought a very expensive set of furniture for her home. She will pay with her job and her reputation.
"""I still support Cynthia Boone.""" The content of the container sold at a public auction is her private business, there was no inventory ever published and only rumor about what the contents were. How she furnishes her home is also a private matter. California Osages generally form their own opinion and are not influenced by this type of rumor, sorry you take this attitude. Hopefully Osages will think for themselves and make educated judgement about this kind of rhetoric..
DeleteWow I don't think any of us has forgotten.
DeleteI couldn't disagree more. I don't want those new CFRs and I will vote for anyone who puts a stop to what will destroy our income in general and mine in particular. You all are so naive about what will happen with these new CFRs it's a disgrace. They are in the best interest of the Feds not our mineral estate and you are too blind or have your mind so made up you can't see this thing for what it really is and that makes you dangerous to my income and everyone elses. Granted that Ciaradon needed to go as does as that other jailbird. Get professional people hired to handle our trusts and now they have that Fawn gal back in there who, for the first time in Mineral Council history, needed two others to be hired just to get the lead out of her lazy backside. My vote will not go to Core or Red Eagle because they do the hiring and rehiring and the buck stops there. They don't know the first thing about hiring professional competent office staff and we need people in there who do to handle our estate trust business. It's a complete disgrace that the BIA's Osage Agency and the Solicitor's Office in Tulsa has put up with this unbelievable crap for so long.
DeleteJust better keep her mouth shut. She has nothing to contribute.
DeleteNone of those men on the Council listen to Cynthia and they never have since Sonny Boy turned on her from the time of the last M/C election. Who do you think you're kidding? BTW-it's Core with a C.
DeleteSo for the time being we'll leave the voting up to to you supposedly correctly individualism selves. But,
ReplyDeleteWe, 4000 will demand higher dividend payouts for our shares
Ask this question of the OMC candidates. What do you know about oil and gas??
More questions to follow, may drop in a few answers along the way, never know. H
First of all, I'd like to thank all of the candidates for Mineral Council and Congress for coming to Texas, and specially thanks to the smooth profession touch of Jim Ryan , who did the MC ing, time keeper ect.. Also a equal amount of thanks to Shan Whitehorn for finding such a unique pizza parlor, their vegetarian pizza was outstanding. Will definitely have to exchange recipes with Shan Whitehorn.
ReplyDeleteWith that all being said, Margo Gray came out looking like a million dollars, posing with laryngitis in a very light colored tan almost a leotard fitting pants, anyways , I could see up her ankle a good eight inches, that's above those designer patent leather half heel, real sharp almost gold color tan shoes. The blouse was appeared to be white silk, with a gold foil series of arrows heading toward the head. Over this was a half jacket that matched the pants Touched all the hot points in the Chiefs campaign, I won't be able to to described Standingbear's getup believe he was in Colorado for a dinner in Denver.
Now, with 24 more to go can I just say they all looked like they just got out of a car after a 300 mile trip and leave it at that? H
I don't care if she looks like a zillion dollars. She don't have my vote and never will or any other of those Grays that set us on this nasty path to Tribal destruction.
DeleteHere, Here ! I wouldn't care if Margo had the backing of the Pope! I am not about to vote for another "Gray" And you can bet on Jim Gray advising her and probably would end up with some sort of appointed position with the Nation. To bad he wasn't banned from any office with the tribe like JRE was.
DeleteYou said Margo looked like a million dollars but your description sounds more like a "Tart" I am not sure you were trying to be funny or not in your description.
Delete"Call'em like ya see`em." Not "Tart" but just "Sharp" , where is a difference. H
DeleteBy-the-way if you think I'm a Gray Groupie, think again, if not mistaking I have predicted Standingbear's win for for two years, believe I even gave the vote amount at 1800. Do I think there's a place in the Osage Tribal government for a person with Margo's connections, yes. Even President Obama used the knowledge of Hillary Clinton to be his Sec. of State.H
DeleteIf you don't know the difference between " Tart" and "Sharp" I can't help you.
DeleteUgh! The woman owes money all over town and she's traipsing around Texas in clothes she probably hasn't the money to pay for? If you think I'm going to be impressed by her or anything she wears, NOT. She has no business running for Chief in the first place.
DeleteWhile I've got your eye or ear, the by-the-way remind me of a Tourist attraction across the Great Osage , don't know what railroad tracks remain but it would be a attraction , a rolling casino down the tracks from the Ponca City Osage Casino stopping at the Bluestem GrassLands, next stop Pawhuska, some other's Osage museum. Pawhuska Cemetery, back on that Osage Unlimited Tourist Train.
ReplyDeleteBack in the 1800's the Railroads the one's that eventually sent ya'll a packing to the Indian Territory. needed some financing to build their steel rail system, just so happen some French relatives was visiting your relatives in St. Loius, and was able to get the European Rothchild's to bring the financing to the Kansas and eventually Indian Territory, the MidLand Valley that originally was a coal mining train out of Midland Mine in Arkansas and the Santa Fe that ran North to South off the right-a-way again taken from the Osage. So as you can see Who moved scrxxxx you more times than anyone in the last 100 years. If they candidates can prove their less then 1/128 French and more than 1/4 Osage, they should have the honor to run for and hold elected office No, to non-Osage then no to fake Osages ,too. H
ReplyDeleteCynthia Boone has been trying to tear down the Osage Nation’s Constitutional Form of Government for the entire 8 years she has been in office. She and Dudley Whitehorn and Curtis Bear have been waving the 1906 Act around like a flag, and I don’t think they can even read it. If they could read and understand, they would know that the 1906 Act was amended by the United States Congress to allow the Osage people to choose the form of government they wanted. The people did that in 2006, and they chose this constitutional form of government we now have. But the framers of our constitution have missed some very important points, one of them being, it is almost impossible to amend it. But sooner or later, it will be amended, and let’s hope that next time they get it right. Meanwhile, Cynthia, Dudley, and Curtis have continued to try to cause problems at every turn, obviously trying to do their part to make it appear that the ONG isn’t working. Curtis has seemed to be trying to get out of Cynthia’s ruts for several months now, but as soon as the election is over, I expect him to fall right back in line. That’s fine, if that’s what they truly believe, but I don’t think our mineral council should be bogged down in these muddy ruts of desperation for the next 3 or 4 years waiting on the Interior Board of Indian Appeals to make a decision. Even if “Jech” should happen to win at IBIA, it will only allow them to start from scratch again. Let Cynthia and Curtis fight their hopeless battle on their own time. The crooked, greedy “Jech” lawyers have their hooks set so deep, there is probably no way out for them now anyway. By the way, these are the very same greedy lawyers that Cynthia, Dudley, and Curtis spent several months trying to get the council to hire as general counsel for the MC. This was also about the same time that these three were trying to pry $50,000 out of the MC to pay Jech’s legal fees to these same shysters. They had the council convinced, and the $50,000 was approved. They might have gotten away with it if the other five councilmen hadn’t noticed that the Jech litigants were being billed nearly $3000 by these crooked lawyers to APPLY for the job of general counsel for the MC. At its best, that would have been highly unethical, and at its worst, it was morally corrupt, and possibly even illegal. Dudley had apparently set the whole thing up and Cynthia signed the voucher to pay the first installment on the $50,000. Neither of the other two signatories would sign the voucher, and it takes two. The council voted NO on hiring Dudley’s lawyers at a regular meeting, and then Dudley and Cynthia brought the matter to a vote (illegally) for a second time some weeks later at a special meeting held only for the purpose of approving a lease sale done at an Oil and Gas Summit. Once again, the council did not approve hiring Jech’s lawyers. Two or three months later, the council voted five to three to rescind the resolution of support and take away the $50,000 previously granted. If the five councilmen who voted NO hadn’t stopped this mess in its tracks, these lawyers would have kept coming back to the well. I’ve never seen a better case for “CONFLICT OF INTEREST”. Boone and Bear must g
What a great post and you hit the nail on the head. I like Curtis Bear and voted for him but his actions show that he can't think for himself when it comes to MC matters. Cynthia leads him around by the nose, all the way to Washington to support the producers. As far as the perception of Curtis trying to distance himself recently from Cynthia, I believe that's just to get re-elected and then it will be back to business as usual. Look what happened after he followed Cynthia to Washington and later found out that people didn't like what they did one darn bit ! Then he started backtracking trying to explain his way out of it. We DO NOT need people on the MC that can't think ahead before they act and we certainly don't need people that are not going to represent the shareholders and work on their behalf. I wonder how that washes with the shareholders when Cynthia says " I work for you " and then she and her buddies on the MC go to DC on the producers dime ? If you will read the above post and others you will get a clear picture that Cynthia has had a couple of MC members in her pocket that will vote any way she does and that's how she tries to run the MC. Thank goodness there are some MC members that are thinking and working for us and we need to vote them back in. Dudley is not going to run, if Curtis does not get elected and Stephanie Erwin and Linda Heskitt don't get elected, ( they are supporters of Cynthia from the OSA ) and we elect some knowledgeable educated people to the MC then we can put a stop to all the turmoil that has been going on mostly caused by Cynthia and her posse ! Now is our chance to really make a difference in the MC and get some people that will represent us, respect us and listen, rather than sneak off into the night with the producers ! And, we certainty don't need someone on the MC that thinks it's their job in life to count office condiments !
DeleteAnswer this question honestly, what good is a Constitutional government that held out the promise that all of us would be treated the same that steals all the money from 80-90% of its members to give to the employees and boards and commissions and study groups and does little if anything for the man in the street Osage who isn't old or young that provides no income for any of those members who don't have a headright? The only thing it allows us to do is vote for the crooks and sidewinders who have been running it into the ground from the day it first got started. Of those who have been elected run it, how many have businesses that in one way or another benefit from Osage government money staying in a very small geographical area?
Delete1:51 p.m. You must be one of those folks who want Mineral Council money added to the hideously corpulent worker waist lines in candy and crap and such. If you were as drunk as most of those who work for the Osage government are fat with their candy and pop allowances, you'd be arrested for public intoxication and thrown in the drunk tank for six months. I loathe all this waste and so should you.
DeleteIrwin,Heskett and Boone, I believe will balance out a otherwise good o'boys, mud duck lodge group to say the least. R...A...Y..."S... licking at the chops waiting to make it official he with the boys, Yates and Galen..A good substitute is in the making, Conner's has about, 20 years current experience in oil and gas more then then anyone a running. Haskett, I thought for a minute well here's the person I've been reading for two years and she's a running for OMC. may not be but I think close enough to count as a outsider for this rigged council. Both Haskett and Irwin have attended what meetings that they can set in on , so they have done their homework. You're better get a balance on that council or your never going to forgive yourselves. H.
DeleteLet's be upright ,this Mineral Council, they were the reason the horizontal drillers left the Osage.
DeleteTeam my xxx, hard ball with that bureaucracy understaffed do nothings, Ray can write about Yates Crum and the others can laugh
about but it gets in the pocket book of every Shareholder if things don't work on time like Clock work. We'll see who the old OsageShareholders.com picks for their slate of Osage Mineral Council candidates H
DeleteHomer Finncannon, you never have explained to the shareholders exactly how your “family full of lawyers in the long ago”, without a drop of Osage blood, came by this Osage mineral interest that you now hold. Do you know for sure just how that came about? For your information, all that “got into your pocket book” in the last 4 years, was a share of the $24 million in concession fees and lease bonuses, and the revenue from the increase in production of over 2,000 barrels of oil per day. That’s what “got into your pocket book” and I seriously doubt that you have any plans to volunteer to return that mineral interest back to the Osages. Producers have sold out, to other producers, and the new producers are renewing concessions and paying large fees to do so, and then leasing up leases within those concessions, again paying more large fees for the leases, and, the BIA says that they recently issued 29 drilling permits in just one week, a world record for them. You keep acting like producers are just walking away, abandoning their producing leases. If that ever happened, the mineral council would very quickly be in the oil producing business, with no cost at all. But it has not happened yet, and in reality, there has been very little to even put in a lease sale. It’s about all leased up, and believe it or not, there are a few isolated places that may not have oil at all. Who would you lease that to? Lighten up Homer, listen up, and try to learn what is going on before you embarrass yourself further.
Daisy Ware Estate husband and my Uncle Bernard Beach case went to the Supreme Court of the United States, the whole proceeding is on the Law Research website just Yahoo or Google . Now how did you get your mineral interest? So, you believe everyone's happy with the blanket leases, wasn't when Foster came to renewal, probably wasn't when Uncle Sam Oil, got bankrupted by Standard Oil either, Political embarrassing or not,who's going to get someones attention,but, than trying to verify it is almost impossible ,liars figures, figures lie, somewhere beneath the Osage and the Shareholders.H
DeleteThe Osageshareholders.com web site was shut down some time ago.
DeleteNope, I've had it for years, OsageShareholders.com, believe theirs were .org or .net H
DeleteYou are right, the old OSA site was Osageshareholders.org HOWEVER I did a Google search of the site you mentioned "Osageshareholders.com" and came up blank. If it exist I would like to read it. Please tell us how to find it. Thanks
DeleteI found the site you mentioned. It isn't a Osage share Holders site. It is in fact a NON- Osageshareholders web site and is listed as such.This leads to the question of...are these "Non" Osages OR "Non: shareholders? Either way under the Osage constitution they don't have a vote !
DeleteYou found the site, I found the site, nobodies found it, it'll rise up like the early morning sun,like a Stampeding Herd of Buffaloes, bringing
Deletewith it a New Day,a New Way for All Shareholders. This Site will be Dedicated to the Shareholders, It's a coming I see the dust cloud on that far ridge, yes, no more blocking out the View of the ordinary by a few, over yonder, what a wonder, no ones seen so-far today.H
If you stick your head above the crowd you get shot at, if you hit the deck or the gutter your down there with the rest. I told you since, I presume the replies are coming from you folks that wasn't there, that I would give a little fashion report. Thought after the almost a lynching of the Senior Elder almost a full blood Ex Chief, that I heard more then one mention it Saturday. You know, read it more then once here, "Loathing of the True Osages." Don't have the nerve to run for elected office so be it, make your Sxxxw bread and meat pies,and Indian tacos and leave it to the tougher skins. You observe I didn't use the color Red,truly only saw a few Saturday , the back of my redneck probably was just about as red as seen, Dress for success, having a crease in your dress slacks., you may think you know the dirt while my corrected cataracts ,and these correlated,glaucoma affected eyes are telling you a sight. So next time you sign up for one of the hot seats, but remember I won't report on any Fake Osages must be at least a quarter blood, and less than a 1/128 French or can't waste my time on it, must be Genuine. H
ReplyDeleteWhat the heck does that all mean ?
DeleteWho cares? The guy reads like an ill informed nut case.
DeleteWhere's your qualifications for such an analysis? H
DeleteDon't need a long list of qualifications to analysis the post of 1:17 PM. Read the post and see if you can figure out what they are talking about
DeleteLetter from cobel att. on Indianz.com....more delays.....posted 4-16.
DeleteAre you saying that you believe 1 / 4 or less is not Osage ? This quantum subject has been discussed so many times. Take that position and eventually there will be no tribe. I am tired of hearing about it!
DeleteJust read the load of excuses class council gave about the Cobell suit in Indianz.com. sounds as if the DOI has passed the buck onto GCG as opposed to doing the work themselves. But as stated in the Court record's known whereabouts IMM accounts are to be deposited if they cannot deliver to an address that is non deliverable to put the money into their IMM account. Whats the hold up? The Judge denied class council additional funding of twelve million? The appeal process is done and over with. Everyone knows how much they should be receiving. Alot of Indians are concerned about the interest building on the account. As I had stated in much earlier posts what about the interest and yet no answer from class council on Indianz.com. Class council should reapond to the questions. Where does this settlement go from here?
ReplyDeleteSome of these people they cant find, for cobell payout, may not want to be found. Some owe school loan money or wanted by the law and such. Thats their business. But why cant the ones they know go ahead and get their money. I wonder if they are afraid they will not have enough money to go around. I think theres alot more to this than what they are telling us.
DeleteThe inefficiencies are a result of poor record keeping at the administrative level. No oversite to no consequence suffered the Indfians and endless suits to only repeat history's past.
DeleteThe General Election Sample Ballot is available at http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/sites/default/files/library/2014GeneralElectionSampleBallot.pdf
ReplyDeleteSee ON Election Board approves ballot for June 2 general election at http://osagenews.org/article/election-board-approves-ballot-june-2-general-election
DeleteI thought this was very interesting. An earlier post to this forum asked the question, could anyone list any qualifications such as, education, oil and gas experience or business experience for example, that Linda Haskett or Stephanie Erwin might have to to qualify them to sit on the MC with a million dollar budget ? I haven't seen any takers yet.
ReplyDeleteLinda & Stephanie are as qualified as any other shareholder. The qualities you are asking for are the responsibility of the BIA. We need to put someone on the MC that has the interest of the shareholder in mind and get the good old boy network off. No, NO!!! to Crum, Yates, McClain, Core and RedEagle.
DeleteBeing a shareholder doesn't automatically qualify you for anything other than voting and getting a quarterly check. Out of the thousand or so shareholders how many of those are qualified to oversee a $1,000,000 business ? Not many! AND, it is not the responsibility of the BIA to put people on the MC. That's up to us. If Linda and Stephanie desire to be on the MC it's up to them to point out their qualifications during their campaign. I wouldn't mind hearing from them on this forum or if you know them so well, why don't you enlighten us on their qualifications? This blog reaches a lot of people and I am sure they would all be glad to hear. Here is the opportunity for them or for you to step up to the plate and "Put up or shut up" so to speak. Are you telling me that Cynthia, and Bear had our interest in mind when the went to DC with the producers? I don't think so and neither do a lot of others. I am pleased with the work the "Good old boy" network that you refer to have been doing and Ray McClain will be a good addition to the MC. At least these people don't jump whenever Cynthia says "BOO !"
DeleteAnd Boone after reading The Osage News and the letters to the editor, confirms what needs to happen. We need team Shareholders support period. I would like a job description of each member on the MC and OSA. I'm sure the inefficiencies at the BIA are not just linked to them alone.
DeleteYou had a team with the oil producers in partnership and you couldn't wait to stab them in the back the very first chance you got to change the CFRs. You such people accuse others of doing exactly what you've been doing when you started the whole nasty business. You've got a hell of a lot of nerve.
DeleteYeah, it’s really tough that the producers are going to have to start paying royalty on ALL the oil they sell, isn’t it? Actually, some of the gas purchasers are screwing the shareholders AND the producers, by not maintaining the meters and with some of the totally one-sided gas purchase contracts the BIA has agreed to in the past. No more! With the new cfrs, at least we will be getting our proper gas royalty. The producers can give their part away if they want to, or they can grow some cahones. It will be their choice.
DeleteThat was part of the problem. It seems that there were a few of our MC members that were more in partnership with some of the producers than the shareholders. Thankfully we had five, that were thinking for the betterment of the minerals estate than the others. When the Federal Govt saw what a mess things were in and stepped in, they saw fit to dismiss the superintendent and streamline the procedures and re-enforce the rules by working with the BIA and the MC in up grading the CFR's, Several MC members sided with the producers to go to Washington to protest the new changes. Depends on your point of view who, as you put it, got "stabbed in the back" BY the actions of a few, I feel it was the shareholders that got "stabbed in the back" and intend on voting those that went to Washington off the MC.
DeleteYour point of view is going to cost all of us money. These people pull the product out of the ground. If you dump on them because you have no respect for what they do for us then you dump on all of us. All you people are interested in is money and sooner or later, people like that always pay the price.
DeleteYou are beginning to sound like a producer. Why are you posting here on this shareholder blog? If you are really a shareholder, why don’t you just go ahead and start sending the producers a check each quarter for about 15% of your payment check? You will probably still come out ahead when the new cfrs kick in anyway. I’m keeping mine.
DeleteExactly ! Maybe the poster at 6:35 IS a producer OR one of the MC members that went to Washington with them?
DeleteYou'll both dry up here when the checks start plummeting. Of that I have no doubt. A dissenting opinion is just that with no need to employ fiction to further your ignorant foolish ends. Let Sonny Boy play you along like fiddles. If he loses half of what he gets that's still nearly 2 full headrights worth in quarterly payment. It might put a dent in his income but it won't be the end of the world. For most others, it'll be devastating and you'll both be on the wrong side of this issue with no way of turning things back.
DeleteReply to 6:35 PM It's our oil and gas and the producers are making a bundle off of it.and that's alright. I haven't seen one post or opinion that we don't respect what they do and no one has dumped on them as you seem to think.
DeleteJust a point of clarification. A person posted on April 17 at 11:14, that they had been reading the "Osageshareholders.com" web site In case anyone wants to know, this site is actually a NON-Osageshareholders web site. A deliberate omission on the posters part. Good try :)
ReplyDeleteA little bit of clear-up in that April 18,2014 6.22 further back in the comments and the one above 6:29pm. I've answered that below the 6:22, He found it, I'm losing a lot of time, that I could be using to distract from some real close races like,H
DeleteThere have been post on this forum referring to the business of the MC being a $1.000,000 business. That my friends is their operating budget. If you don't think we need people on the MC that are knowledgeable and educated in the oil and gas industry the total royalty income for 2013 was over 85 million dollars !! A lot of things have lead to this but that's an approximate increase in royalty revenue of 65 million over 2001. And the total gross revenue was around 1/2 a billion. I would say, Yates,Galen,Core,and RedEagle have been doing a doing a pretty good job in spite of several members and if we can get Ray McClain on there things will get even better.
ReplyDeleteThe 85 million dollars the BIA oversees and keeps the producers as honest they can according to the CFR's. The MC doesn't make a bit of difference one way or the other and the good old boys you list here just take what kickbacks they can and sell you shareholders a crock of "s,,,,,," to make you happy to lap it up.
DeleteI’m glad to see that you agree that the CFR’s are critical to the operation of the mineral estate. The MC negotiates and approves all concession and lease agreements, and the gas purchase contracts are developed by the BIA and approved by the MC. Since there has never been anyone on any MC that fully understands the gas contracts, with the possible exception of Talee Red Corn, the BIA has been selling us a bill of goods on these gas contracts. Someone, maybe Talee, brought in a gas contract expert several years ago, who told the Council and the BIA just how bad these contracts were, but he couldn’t convince them. The BIA still doesn’t have anyone on board who understands gas contracts. Maybe the new Superintendent will do something about this. It’s costing us a fortune in royalties.
DeleteTo 4-18 at 9:37 Kind of treading on thin ice aren't you? If you are going to accuse MC members of taking kickbacks, I would like to hear about them. Please list names of those that received them, who gave, the amounts and dates. If you can prove your accusations, I'm sure we would like to hear about them. Since you brought this up, I wondered why a MC member would vote to reduce the concession amount to be paid by a producer? You don't suppose there was a kickback involved ?
DeleteI was thinking about Stephanie's qualifications and wondered this. If Stephanie worked for the BIA for a time and as Cynthia was, a supporter of Melissa, how did things get in such a mess that Melissa had to be removed and where was Stephanie and why didn't she speak up?
ReplyDeleteOh,she spoke up alright. She was supporting Melissa all the way.
DeleteI figured as much !
DeleteCobell Settlement: Land Buy-Back Program information at http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/what-we-do/tribal-development-land-acquisition-department
ReplyDeleteFrom the Osage News: The Petition against the planned Wind Farms in Osage County is now available at the Osage Minerals Council offices for signatures. The OMC respectfully asks that all Osages and Osage County residents who oppose the proposed wind farm sign the petition. For more information call the OMC offices at (918) 287-5433.
ReplyDeleteSee article, Permit for TradeWind’s Mustang Run project tabled at http://barnsdalltimes.com/http:/barnsdalltimes.com/news/permit-for-tradewinds-mustang-run-project-tabled
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteOh Good Grief ! The Eagle is a revered symbol in the Native American culture. Pryor to the coming of the gospel to the Native Americans the Eagle was thought to take our prayers to the "Great Spirit" ( We didn't have a name other than that for God ) Where as now the Eagle is still revered but no one of Christian faith that I know of,is saying the Eagle comes before God or is a graven image before God. Additionally this is a living creature with limited numbers and should be protected. Lei's not kill off every living thing in the name of progress. As I understand it the rules will allow for a total of six kills a year with no means to keep record or penalties for over kill. And if there were,the wind farm operators will just pay the fine for the year and just keep on trucking ,year after year. Do you think anyone cares but us? Once they are all gone it will be to late !! Sign the petition
DeleteApril 21, 2014 at 5:21 AM, Do not post comments here that are insulting and inflammatory to and about the religious beliefs of the Osages or any other Tribal community. They are unwelcome and uninvited. Such printed remarks are as appropriate as posting KKK meeting agendas on the NAACP Blog. Good grief is right!
DeleteOMC Council Members are looking for some red hot buttons to push, and trust me this is one. Where else can they get the current activist name address and possible e-mail and phone number, sure they can get some from the old BIA , for their use but maybe not the e-mail and phone. I believe I'd sent in my petition to a neutral party that's not currently involved in a hot political race. I also wasn't to sure what Fred Drummond met by stating that there was two Bills down at the Oklahoma State house that would change some things, What?
DeleteI"ll add one other thing to the "good grief" post Once the wind farm is up and operating, there will be no way to stop killing the eagles until one of two things happen. One...the eagles are all killed off from our land Two...the wind farm turbines stop turning and that's not going to happen. The wind farm needs to be stopped now or there will be no turning back. Why should it be OK to kill our eagles ?
DeleteOsage Chief Bighourse a good catholic must have made a deal with Pope Francis bringing changes to the Catholic Church that gives dispensation to Osage Catholics to ignore the word of God.
DeleteI agree, why would Fred Drummned not expound on his comment about the Bills and share the news with the Shareholders in the first.
DeleteWith the Federal Tax credit soon to be no longer available these entities will soon have to fend for themselves and not feed off the tax payer any longer. We need to stay in the know and continue this fight against the wind farms. What a boondoggle.
DeletePoster 4-22 at 8:02 AM. You must be the same one that posted on April 21 at 9:51 that was removed. First off why would you make such a terrible accusation toward the Chief OR anyone else for that matter? Second...WHAT DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND concerning the 4-21 9:55 post "Good Grief" Third...You evidently now NOTHING about Indian culture and how it relates to Christianity and the gospel. Fourth......Other than our own human faults, which we all have, you imply that Osage Catholics are running around deliberate ignoring the word of God ! You must run with a different crowd than I do.
DeleteWhat's going on with ONCA 13-62, An Act to require all compacts and proposed regulations with the State of Oklahoma or the United States of America to be affirmed by resolution of the Osage Nation Congress; and to establish an alternate effective date. (?) The only bill for this that I can find is http://osagenation.co/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/ONCA13-62.REVISED.pdf with no Committee Substitute listed for download at http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/congress-legislative-branch/legislation This legislation should hand any compacting of anything associated with the BIA where the Mineral Estate is concerned over to the Minerals Council for their review and approval before it ever gets into the hands of the Osage Congress for theirs. What is going on here?
ReplyDeleteTalking about qualifications, I just got off the phone with a friend who works at the gaming commission. They had a few words to say about the director. Apparently she is not Osage, or even Native at all. She has no college degree... Seriously, how did she get in? Do we hire Director-level staff with no degree? Unbelievable. The main issue I was told about was that she is allowing the casino to build these new casinos with little oversight. The staff want to do their jobs, but she forces them to stay away... Smells like kickbacks if ya ask me. What happens if the feds come in and realize this? Do we get shut down? We should be asking questions. The gaming operation is pretty much the lifeblood of the government itself. We will all suffer if they get caught out by the feds. Who is this person related to and why do we not hear more from them about what they do to protect gaming?
ReplyDeleteI would be calling the Chief, then to the Feds. So what you are saying this is why the build out of the Casino's has cost the Osages because their is no oversite because of incompetence? And inquiry minds would like to know who hired her as well and how did she get the job and time to replace her ASAP. Even if this is rumor.
DeleteWhat is the name of this director you are talking about and if she is related to someone that got her the job....tell us! Sounds like she is not qualified to direct a darn thing and again we pay for it!
DeleteHURRY! Questions for the Candidates at the Debate: You do not have to be a shareholder to send a question but the questions do have to pertain to the Osage Mineral Estate and the Osage Minerals Council. All questions ( one question per entry) are due by Friday, April 25, noon. Please send all questions to osagenews@osagenation-nsn.gov or call (918) 287-5668.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteWOW!! I had no idea it was this bad. Check out “gas problems” on Ray McClain’s http://www.Osages-You-Need-To-Know.com web site. This is terrible.
Open Attachment 2014-04-24 Major Problem with Gas Accounting, for Years.pdf Open
WTF. This is not funny in tne least. Just on one well we are losing 20,000 dollars a day! Time to sue the Federal Government again. And time to fire our MC. Lay out of job performance to piss poor management. We have 9000 wells performing. And to think they are negotiating and approving contracts with the BIA approving knowing this information. Doing the same thing over again is the meaning of insanity. This is how much we are losing a day give or take a few dollars $ 65,700,000,000 a year. Who's getting the kick backs maybe the Feds need a call. This isn't chump change and just because the CFR'S are sitting in limbo does not mean we have to wait to negotiate great contracts. So now you know why these CFR'S need approving and now you understand the incompetence is clearly evident on all levels at an administrative and with the MC. and now you understand their first job needs to take a rest because no one is mining the ship. Do they realize the demographics here, I do. This is a eye opener and thanks Ray McClain for posting and a huge thanks to Susan Foreman. I suspected but not to this gravity. Unbelievable.
DeleteI also strongly suggest that everyone read the post on the "Osages-You-Need-To-Know" site. Click on the heading titled "Major problems With Gas Accounting" Ray McClain as usual has excellent insight to the problems that exist and added a letter by Susan Foreman detailing with facts and figures the depth of the problem and how much money we are loosing. With Ray's extensive experience and knowledge of the oil and gas industry and Susan's experience as a Natural Gas Consultant I don't think he would attach Susan's letter to his site unless he totally agreed with what she is pointing out. PLEASE READ THIS ! After you read it you will be more convinced that we need people like Ray and Susan on the MC. This is a business and needs to be run like one with people that have experience in the field.
DeleteAt the recommendation of several post, I read Ray McClain's comments on the Osages-You-Need-To-know site and the attached letter by Susan Foreman. If you read it ,I think you will come away amazed at what a mess things are in and why numerous changes need to be made to the CFR's. Also, I came away with renewed questions on WHY Cynthia, Melvin, Dudley and Curtis, all MC members, went to Washington with four members of the Osage Producers Association to lend their support in opposition to new CFR"s !! It should be obvious to all, that something is wrong and there is more than meets the eye. These are not people we need on the MC representing the shareholders. Looks like to me that they are fighting more for the producers than the shareholders ? WHY I don't know but can think of several reasons.
DeleteRay’s post of Susan’s letter telling of her experience with this gas purchase contract is not all that usual in that purchaser is offering a completely one sided contract that requires much of the gas and NGL’s (Natural gas Liquids) to be given away and then both are undervalued (especially the liquids) on what they do pay for.
ReplyDeleteThese contracts are negotiated by the producer with the purchaser and the Minerals Council has no role in the process. (the same is true of oil contracts but at least we do have a poor minimum floor price in the current CFR’s we will accept and none is just given away) The BIA does review and approve them, but the practice seems to have been to pretty much to go along with whatever the deal the producer decides to go with. The justification being that gas production is generally a secondary product of an oil well not a primary income producer for the well. The producer needs to get rid of the gas in order to produce the well, so he has little incentive push for a better deal on the gas. The problem is the Osages only get paid a royalty share of what ever the producer gets paid.
In order fix this problem with all these very bad purchase contracts the BIA Superintendent would have to take the unprecedented action of voiding contracts that they already approved, which is never going to happen, or start insisting on better new contracts for the Osages and let the old ones die by attrition. (this would take many years)
This is why in the new CFR’s we completely by pass the contracts, old and new, from an Osage standpoint. The new Regs. require all gas to be measured at or near the well head and tested for the MMbtu value(heating value) and then the Osages will be paid top of the local market price(ONRR oklahoma zone #1) for every bit of gas that is produced. We also include detailed specifications on how metering and btu testing systems are to be constructed and maintained. In this way the producers can give away or accept less than market value for their portion of the gas, but the Osages will be paid top of the market price for their entire royalty share of every bit of gas produced, even if it is flared. And all gas will be accurately measured before it leaves the lease.
Susan Forman response: Thank you Galen for this very informative explanation.
DeleteThe well in question produced 3,139 MMBtu at the well in the last 10 days of February. Galen’s deal with the BIA was to take the wellhead produced MMBtu and value that at the ONRR OK Zone 1 price for same time period. http://www.onrr.gov/Valuation/allzones.htm
3,139 MMBtu X $5.15 = $16,165.85 Royalty value at 3/16th’s (.1875) is $3,031.10
My spreadsheet on Ray’s website calculates the value of the gas stream “as if” it was processed. So you have to extract liquids through a refrigeration process, burning some of the gas as fuel along the way. The natural gas liquids such as Propane, pentanes, butanes are sold separately and the remaining dry gas is sold at the market price. Total value in my posted example is $21,132.26 & the Royalty value would be $3,962.30
Difference between Galen’s calculation and mine is: $4,966.41
Royalty share of the difference is $931.20 which doesn’t seem like that much but remember it is only 10 days of production.
Galen did the best he could to insure that we would have a formula for the BIA/producers that is easy to administer and will greatly increase the revenue we receive as shareholders and I applaud him for that.
As I shared in my letter, the CFR’s are not approved yet and the same old bad contract deals are still being approved by the BIA with full knowledge of the Superintendent and staff. I simply wanted to point out the full value of our rich gas. My hope is that qualified people on the MC and BIA will start “thinking out of the box” to find ways to assist Osage Co. Producers to negotiate better deals. Working together, the sky is the limit. If Producers knew how much revenue they were missing out on you would think they would want to innovate. It might start with “Not signing over processing rights to the Purchaser” in all new contracts especially if the gas is just blended and not processed after the Purchaser takes delivery. If cost effective, Producers can extract liquids at the well with a portable unit. Why would a Producer want to give this value to the Purchaser for nothing in return unless the Purchaser can process and share the revenue with the Producer & Shareholder. I can think of a dozen ways to assist the Producer in improving the bottom line.
It is important to point out here if the ONRR OK Zone 1 price per MMBtu rises and the price per gallon for natural gas liquids falls it is possible that Galen's deal would be a higher price. At some other time I will compare the two pricing scenarios historically to see how they compare & share. That is what I would have done if I had been involved in the decision. You have to have access to the published prices. Hint: Our MC should be subscribing to the Industry Price publications for Natural Gas Liquids and Platts Gas Daily to evaluate how we are doing going forward.
I hope this was a little more clear than mud and useful in deciding what caliber of MC candidate we will vote for. FYI, Galen and Ray have my full support for MC! The are smart men with the right experience and have demonstrated that by devoting long hours to improve our bottom line.
Thank you Susan for pointing out what can happen when the gas being marketed is very wet and rich valuable NGL’s. In the interest of brevity in trying to get my point across that new CFR’s are going to pretty much fix the Osage’s problems with the bad sales contracts, I failed to mention another part of the new gas pricing CFR. In the event that very rich gas is being produced that will generate more revenue by stripping and selling the separate components than will be captured by pricing the whole mmbtu value prior to separation, we can require that the producer do what is called dual accounting, where by he will have to report separated sales generated as well as the original whole stream valuation. The Osages will then be paid royalty on the greater of the two valuation methods. We didn’t require dual accounting on all gas sales because we were trying to limit the amount of added accounting work load placed on both the producer and the BIA when it would not be helpful to the Osage bottom line. But it is a simple process of checking sales reports on very high btu gas and putting that producer on the dual accounting system when merited.
DeleteBy the way Susan, I added this dual accounting option to the proposed CFR after you pointed out to me during Neg/Reg committee work that this situation could well arise. So you can take credit for it being there.
I also agree that helping and encouraging producers to negotiate better contracts would still be helpful to the Osage mineral production in general even if we are no longer being hurt. But traditionally many of our producers (especially the smaller ones) have been resistant to taking gas sales seriously. I suspect however when they have to start paying the Osages a much greater portion of the gas revenue they are receiving, they may become more mindful of paying attention to that part of their business.
Ray's just a copying, Talee Redcorns platform, just vote for Talee then. T. Boone Pickets knew where the gas was, but didn't figure these OMC BoZos, wouldn't charge anyone for the natural gas. Stupid,stupid,stupid, on the comments Osage Mineral Council-You-Need-To-Replace, replace them all.
ReplyDeleteOur Osage Neg/Reg expert (Dan Reineke) already knew of theses problems when we started the committee process since he is the person that proved these BIA short comings in court during the Trust Case. So he had already developed this way to by-pass all the red tape involved in fixing the problem. When he and I were able get a look at more of these awful contracts during the Neg/Reg investigation work, he estimated that our gas royalty should double when we start getting paid full value for all our gas and NGL’s.
DeleteThis is only one of the many reasons that Sonny, Andrew and I stood fast when the rest of the Council panicked and tried to get us to stop the new CFR’s from being implemented. We believe that the Osages deserve to be paid fair market value for all our oil and gas.
P.S. One of the producers ( Bob Sullivan) that hauled Cynthia and her crew to Washington to lobby officials for them is one of the biggest NGL and gas producers in the County. His wells are more gas than oil producers. So it is easy to see why he is so against the new CFR’s. And yes, he is the same Sullivan Oil Co. that shortly after that trip, Cynthia and Dudley tried to get us give them a five year extension to their 90,000 acre concession for no payment for the exclusive drilling rights and a $25 per acre lease bonus and no drilling commitments. Neighboring concessions paid us $4,000,000 for the exclusive 3 yr. rights and $100 per acre lease bonuses, plus drilling commitments.
Thank you Mr. Crum, for enlightening us. It’s easy to see why Susan Forman might have misunderstood about the MC and BIA failing to do their job. If the MC doesn’t even have access to the gas contracts, there’s probably no way she could ever get to see them, except for the one given to her by the producer she was trying to help. Hang in there, we appreciate you 3, and we’re going to try to get you some help on June 2
DeleteGalen Crum non the less, this should have never happened in the first. This is not chump change we are talking about and just reeks of incompetency. I do appreciate your response.
DeleteThere has been a lot of saber rattling about the MC and "replace them all" I think this would be a big mistake to take this attitude to the voting box. It should be obvious by now that we need to keep a core of members that know what the problems are and how to address them. Even with all the problems, I still am supporting Galen, Sonny and Andrew to help salvage this mess. As one can see their hands have been tied, to a certain extent by bad contracts the BIA approved, under the direction of Melissa and bad CFR"s They are going to need some help and in my opinion that would be to elect Ray McClain and Susan Foreman to the MC, get rid of Curtis and Cynthia, Dudley is not running and God forbid ! do not elect Linda or Stephanie! You will have the same turmoil that we have had and more. We don't need Cynthia stalking employees in the parking lot and causing problems everywhere she goes. And we don't need to elect two more to the MC that think as she does. We need a MC that can work together rather than all this infighting that Cynthia and her followers cause. I imagine during the debates Stephanie will bring up her work experience with the BIA. Point of fact she was a strong supporter of Melissa, as was Cynthia and therefore was part of the problem that got us into this mess. Also, if anyone attended any OSA meetings you will remember how belligerent, argumentative and controlling Linda was.You get Cynthia, Linda and Stephanie together on the MC they will try to control things just and cause as much disruption as they can. I think Cynthia's record on this speaks for its self. If the Feds saw fit to get rid of Melissa we should be smart enough to get rid of her supporters on the MC.
DeleteI stand corrected! I received a phone call today and was told that Susan Foreman has not filed for a position on the MC. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. HOWEVER this does not negate the fact that we need people of her caliber and expertise on the MC. Which means we will need to do some more research as to who is most qualified and well represent the shareholders. Maybe the upcoming debate will shed more light on who to elect? As mentioned before I support Galen, Sonny, Andrew and Ray McClain. With a new superintendent, more funds to operate the BIA and revised CFR's coming on board lets be smart about who we chose, they will need all the help they can get and we do too.
DeleteAll of your posts this week have been helpful. At this point we are still losing fist over dollars on a daily basis untold thousands of dollars. Does anyone know when the approval of said changes to the CFR'S are to become current?
DeleteHey April 25, 2014 at 9:13 AM. I'm going to vote for all of them (Cynthia, Linda and Stephanie) because they want to work with the Producers and not treat them like filthy villains. They have also have the guts to stand up to these controlling men who have tried to push Cynthia around from the very beginning. She needs allies to stop these greedy bstrds from destroying the Mineral Estate with the result being producers fleeing right and left. They were only here because of the old CFRs anyway and there has been no talk of protecting their interests under them. Switching CFRs in the middle of these lease agreements is a poor way to treat your lessees but that makes little if any difference to any of the Sonny Boy Osages. There's more to the story than just the Osage side and I'm sick and tired of the self-centered tunnel vision.
DeleteIf you didn't like Melissa who came up through the ranks at the BIA then you won't like other Osages running things either. They don't know what they are doing and it can only go from bad to worse. The charts Galen reports are skewed to meet with his arguments. Cynthia and Linda and Stephanie and Dudley and Curtis only want to keep the BIA in place so that the Osage Nation does not eat up the Minerals income. Nobody is looking ahead to what this Energy Services LLC is up to with this new land or a building they are getting set up by the Congress to buy that the Minerals Council has nothing to do with though the development of the Mineral Estate is specifically listed as their responsibility which the Osage Nation ignores just like they always do when the Constitution runs afoul of their devious and underhanded purposes. Again and again and again, the Feds can unilaterally pull out of managing the ME Trust because of the 1978 Act to Amend the 1938 Act which amends the 1906 Allotment Act. The Congress can provide for the trust to end without an Act of Congress to do it and we don't have any idea what the term "provide" actually means where U.S. Congress is concerned. We have already voted to give the Mineral Council the authority to represent the shareholders in the HPP lawsuit and that means they have the ability to negotiate new CFRs by that Negotiated Rulemaking Committee that was created by the terms and conditions of the lawsuit. This involves much much more than just the issue of the producers. If the Feds walk that means the BIA too. The Osage Nation is now in possession of the right of ownership where the royalty income from the Mineral Estate is concerned prior to it being collected and transferred to the Trust account by the BIA. Cut the Feds and the BIA out and you have nothing more than another income stream coming into the Osage Nation Treasury that will be in a position to collect it and transfer it to their coffers exactly like they do the income coming in from the tax revenue and gaming. If that happens, don't expect for a second that they will ever create a new trust because they will have the non-headright owners with pitchforks at their door expecting distribution to them as well. That's probably another 5 to 6,000 Osages expecting a check every quarter and don't even try and think that it won't play out exactly like this because it will. You need to support those who support the Feds continuing to manage the Federally held ME Trust under the 1906 Act and Cynthia and Linda and Stephanie and Dudley and Curtis will do exactly that. If Standing Bear, a lawyer, gets Chief and undoubtedly he will against Margo Gray you will have someone in office who has already put forward a plan to get rid of the Feds, who can write up the legislation and prepare the legal documents all by himself and has the full unilateral power under the Osage Nation Constitution to put such a plan on its feet and get it up and running. I AM WARNING YOU. Don't ignore this warning to the peril of the income you receive in your headright checks.
DeleteI’ll try to respond to some of the questions raised above though it is hard to respond directly to folks since everyone seems to have the same name, “anonymous”.
DeleteI have been in contact the last couple of days with the DOI folks working on finishing responses to all the concerns raised in the comment period. They have to do this as part of the legal requirements of the process, and they are in a big push to get it finished. They didn’t give me a date for completion, but I get the feeling it is getting close. I hope so; we’ve lost millions in additional income since this process should have been completed.
To Anonymous poster(s) 12:02 & 12:46 I challenge you to name the companies that you claim are “fleeing right and left”.
I don’t treat the producers like “filthy villains” I treat them like what they are, people that we are in a business relationship with. We own the oil and gas and they enter into agreements to produce it and sell it. For that we allow them to keep 80% to 87.5% of the minerals to sell for what ever price they see fit. But the lease agreements have always given the Osages the right to say what the minimum acceptable price should be for their 12.5% to 20% share what is produced. I don’t blame them for the fact that the current flawed CFR’s didn’t get us fair top of the market prices for our oil and gas. But I also won’t allow the situation to continue just because they quite naturally would prefer that it did. I expect them to look after their interests, just as I must look after the Osage interests. I respect their rights, but they also must respect ours. That is the foundation of good business relationships.
And I also would like you to show how my charts are skewed. You and your like make wild statements with no facts to back them, and yet you want to say my facts that come from BIA sales records, US Energy department websites and official NYMEX postings are skewed. If that is the case show us the data that proves your side of the story. Heck, I’ll make it easy for you; just show us some researchable facts that show even one of my charts is inaccurate.
The feds are not trying to get the BIA out of the Osage, in fact they are making huge investments to make the Osage agency something to be proud of. They have more than doubled the compliance (field men & auditor) and accounting personnel in the minerals division and are investing in new computer systems being built special for Osage needs. This is just a few of the improvements already implemented or in the process, and shows the great commitment to the Osage agency in an era when every other Federal entity is being forced to cut back on spending due to budget cuts and sequestration.
I am sure that anonymous will vote for Cynthia, Linda and Stephanie and if they were to win, our checks would be $7.50. Over the years, there has been millions that Cynthia has tried to give back to the producers, by wanting to accept their lowest offer, and that speaks volumes. You saw how much respect she received when they went to Washington. I would have been embarrassed if I had been in her shoes.
DeleteThank u. Galen for your quick response. I'm sure as heck some of us have more smarts not to believe in the rhetoric. Or fear mongering. Keep us conprised much appreciate you post here. This for some is news of course, and a lot to digest let alone we only want the truth. A very appreciated shareholder. The only way there will be justice is when the CFR'S are approved and the Federal Government isn't going anywhere we understand.
DeleteGood post Galen. It's a shame that you have to respond to people that can't even voice their thoughts without being a filthy mouth individual! That shows what kind of a low brow person they are and credit for you to speak up and challenge them to back up their statements with facts. They don't even know that Dudley isn't running this time.
DeleteFunny how they all jump in when you mention the Osage Nation taking over the Mineral Estate but never comment otherwise. If you're smart, that right there ought to tell you something. The BIA had to correct what they had been doing wrong for as long as they plan to stay and manage the Trust because we won the lawsuit. Those new CFRs work to the advantage of the Feds a lot more than they do to the Osages. You don't change the terms and conditions of leases out from under the lessees without grandfathering in their original agreements. Anyone new to the oil patch is fair game. What has happened with Chapparal and Encana that have left and sold their leases? Osage News wrote: Both companies told The Journal Record that DUE TO NEW REGULATIONS and poor returns on the expensive wells, it wasn’t economically feasible to continue. >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.osagenews.org/article/horizontal-wells-too-costly-two-companies-osage-county A small sampling to prove a point may work with some but not with anyone who wants the bigger picture and a more comprehensive and detailed sampling involving 30 to 40 examples not just 4 or 5.
DeleteWhy isn't Galen responding to the Energy Services LLC comment above? Nothing to clarify here or is he in full agreement and a collaborator with the Osage Nation as it goes about developing the mineral estate out from under the authority of the Mineral Council?
DeleteAnonymous @ 6:38: if you don’t stop saying such silly things people are going to start thinking I am paying to you to tee up questions so I can talk about things I want to clear-up.
DeleteFirst, one of the best little known facts about the new CFR’s is how completely they clarify that the Osage Minerals Council is the Osage government entity that the BIA must, by rule of law, deal with on all Minerals matters. I never tried to actually count them all, but there must be about forty different places where this fact is referenced in the document. Many were newly added on purpose and some were replacement language for when the old ones said “Osage Tribal Council”. It would have been easy to substitute the easier, from a legal standpoint, “Osage Nation” in those instances, but that didn’t happen.
Second, while we purposely tried to find methods of fixing what needed to be fix in a simple and easy to administer manner, the new CFR’s create far more BIA work and investment in manpower than what was happening before. They do not benefit the BIA except to make them more efficient and responsive to managing the Osage Trust.
Third, no changes were made to leases that were not already clearly defined as allowable in the leases and CFR’s. But nearly all the changes are in effect immediately upon acceptance with no grandfathering in. There are several things that cannot be changed in a lease, such rate of royalty, length of term and size of the lease etc, but other changes such as how to properly measure and value royalty minerals can and were changed.
Both Encanna and Chaparral had short term exploration agreements that were for developing Horizontal drilling techniques’in the Mississippi lime. The center and eastern portion of the County, where both of them were operating, had less consistent results than what we are experiencing in the West. This is the only reason why both stated to us they were not continuing with the Horizontal experiment.
Encanna is also going through complete corporate restructuring and has sold most all their holdings in the Mid- Continent region, not just the Osage. However the company that bought out their Osage holdings has already leased more new acreage than Encanna did and has a more aggressive planned drilling program.
Chaparral has certainly not slowed down their Osage operations. Besides investing nearly half a Billion dollars the CO2 flood of their Burbank field, that have leased a lot of new acreage to expand their vertical well drilling program. They were both the top nominator and top purchaser in our March lease sale. This sale had very active bidding and realized the second highest average price per acre of any lease sale in the modern era by the way.
So explain the Energy Services, LLC angle and how they are able to encroach upon what the Mineral Council should be doing with regard to developing the Mineral Estate as mandated by the ON Constitution.
DeleteONES or Osage Nation Energy Services LLC is an underfunded creation of the John Redeagle that I suspect was originally meant to be some sort of vehicle to benefit Rod Hartness, but has not been able to do much of anything.
DeleteThey did get a contract to furnish auxiliary labor for a pipeline passing through the County for a time, but even that has gone away.
And even if they ever do get some funding they could never be a threat the Council or the interests of the Headright holders. Their mission is to look for support business for the energy sector, like the pipeline labor deal. They have always been very submissive to the will of the Council, talking to us before they even look into some opportunity they are thinking of getting into. For instance Jill Jones, their director, brought a gentleman a few weeks ago that was wanting to start a business treating tank bottoms with some new method he had that would salvage more saleable oil from the bottoms, thus increasing the royalty we would receive over conventional tank bottom purchases. She didn’t have to do that any more than the current tank bottom purchasers had to come to the council before selling their services to producers, but she did so out of respect for the Council and wanting to make sure we were OK with what they were looking at.
But even if they somehow got the funding to go into some sort of direct production enterprise they would still have to get leases, and pay us royalty and bonuses just like any outside producer has to do.
So they don't operate under your umbrella and auspices? What happens when they aren't so respectful and try to compact the mineral estate or worse, transition it over from the BIA to the Osage Nation with a Federally Chartered Corporation under the 1934 Indian Reorganization Act with the approval of some future administration? What do they need a building for if they aren't going to fill it up with employees who will be doing what?
DeleteIn your fertile imagination, I suppose anything could happen. This Osage Nation Energy Services has the potential to get into energy related businesses and return millions upon millions of tax free dollars to the Osage people, shareholders and non-shareholders alike, pulling shoulder to shoulder with the producers. It costs the shareholders absolutely nothing, but we will still get our share, right along with our head right check. If you want to keep sitting on your front porch in your grandmother’s rocking chair while waiting on the mailman to bring your quarterly check, you go right ahead. The rest of us will be plowing ahead under a new Mineral Council, a fresh, forward looking Congress, and under Geoff Standing Bear’s leadership, to get this Osage Nation back on the map of success again. Success was handed to us back in the 1920’s. This time we are going to have to earn it, and that’s exactly what is about to happen.
DeleteTo anonymous11:56 pm: I’ve always been worried about the Osage Nation Chief and Congress being able to compact the Minerals without Mineral Council approval or even input. That is one of the main reasons why I worked so hard to get those Osage Constitutional amendments before the voters two years ago. They would have made it constitutionally impossible for them try such a thing. The amendments all received a majority vote, but didn’t get the necessary super majority needed for passage, so we are still exposed to that possibility.
DeleteBut we are in no immediate danger since the Nation can’t compact anything without having a clean audit for three straight years and that hasn’t happened for even one year yet.
Also Maria Whitehorn introduced bill ONCA 13-62 in the current session that she felt was necessary to make clear the Osage Congress would have to be involved in compacting, not just the Chief acting alone. I warned her in an open Council meeting that I would fight her bill if she didn’t include some exclusionary language that exempted them from minerals compacting. She failed to add that language so I contacted friends in the Congress that assured me it would not pass as written. True to their word language was added in committee that gives the Minerals Council veto power over any compacts having to do with Minerals operations. But this still just a law and laws can be easily changed so we still need the amendments.
The Federally chartered corporation idea would be very problematic and probably impossible for anyone to try without U.S. Congress action to clear the way, but it is interesting you should mention it. When Cynthia, Dudley, Curtis and Melvin when to Washington with the producers to demand that somebody “do something” to stop the BIA from ruining the Osage oil industry with the new CFR’s, that is exactly the solution that Sen. Inhoff came up with to solve the problem. Andrew and I spent hours talking on the phone with his chief of staff trying to convince them that first of all, that the CFR changes were reasonable and necessary so there no need for them to get involved at all. And secondly, any move to bust the Osage Trust and create a chartered corporation would meet with very strong Osage opposition, probably even from the misguided Council members that had been in his office demanding that he “do something”.
Thank you Galen. You are right. Strong opposition from 4000 Osage Shareholders is what Sen. Inhoff will have if he continues to meddle. And if you could answer in your opinion if you can Galen, why is Maria Meddling with the affairs of the ME? Thank you for your dedication go righting the wrong.
DeleteIt's more than just interesting that you should mention it: "The Federally chartered corporation idea would be very problematic and probably impossible for anyone to try without U.S. Congress action to clear the way..." because I have it written in my notes of a phone conversation with Geoffrey Standing Bear PRIOR to his election to the ON Congress, his suggestion of a Federally Chartered Corporation for the Mineral Estate under the umbrella of the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934. I don't know who's fooling who here, Galen, but if I were you, I would take this information under very serious advisement. Who has Senator Imhoff been talking to? Geoffrey Standing Bear? Because this is a VERY obscure business idea and suggestion for the future of the Mineral Estate and it's got to be more than a mere coincidence. See if you can find out who has contributed to Geoffrey's campaign and if Imhoff or any PAC that thinks that Imhoff is pretty shows up, that will be very important and telling information.
DeleteTo April 26, 2014 at 7:15 AM. I still maintain that anything minerals related in association with the Energy Services, LLC should be brought under the control and administration of the Minerals Council as so stated in Article XV of the Osage Nation Constitution. That isn't how it's set up now and it should be because if it isn't it will lead to problems later.
DeleteGalen....Please explain what "Compacting" is as it applies or might apply to the minerals estate. I think I know ? but probably don't understand completely.
DeleteMy notes referencing the Fed Chartered Corp. are written on a piece of paper with the date printed at the bottom of the page of 4/26/10. The phone conversation with Geoffrey StandingBear took place within a week or so of that time. During this conversation, I asked him to explain what he meant in his campaign brochure that he sent out at that time which stated verbatim under the Section titled Our Mineral Rights Must Be Protected, "I believe the answers are in a variant of the Corporate Charters authorized by the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934, but must be unique to the Osage and with stronger protections of Indian sovereignty. This cannot be similar to the Osage LLC, but rather a federally protected entity." What I understand this to mean is that he is wanting to take the current Federally held BIA administered ME trust, terminate it in order to create and set up some sort of Federally chartered (protected) corporation to transfer the income to as a replacement entity that is owned by the Osage Nation with an entirely new set of shareholders, presumably only Osages, but the parameters might be even more narrow that that. Clearly, it appears that this conversation must have taken place between Inhofe and Geoffrey StandingBear as well or how else has Inhofe turned up talking about the same concept by the same name four years later? It can't have come up right out of the blue. The big question that comes out of all of this is whose idea was this originally? Did it come from particular members of the U.S. Congress or from Geoffrey StandingBear? On the second page of the campaign brochure is this quotation, “I will listen to what the Osage people want from their government and use all my skills and experience to find ways to implement their wishes into the Osage political system.” I don't know what Osage people Geoffrey StandingBear is talking about because my wishes with regard to spending or a per-cap have never been implemented by him at any time, ever.
DeleteBTW, it sounds like Inhofe has you and Yates over a barrel; either the new CFRs or a Federally Chartered Corporation for the Mineral Estate Trust. That sounds more like blackmail than it does like any sort of implementation of fiduciary obligation that I've ever heard of in the past.
DeleteSomeone above asked me to explain “Compacting” as it relates to the Osage minerals management.
DeleteCompacting and contracting are two terms that are often used interchangeably, but they are different legal vehicles that are used to reach similar outcomes. The end point of each is for tribes to take over some of the services a federal government agency currently must provide to that tribe. In the case of our minerals management that would be the BIA, since that is the only agency that has responsibility in the Osage, not the BIA, BLM and ONRR, as is the case for all other Indian minerals management. As is often said we are unique.
I’ll just use the term “Compacting” for both of these types of agreements for this discussion because one would be just as bad as another in our case.
The details of compact agreements are negotiated, but here is how they generally are set up and how one with the Osage to take over our minerals management might look like.
We would file a legal request under a federal law that permits these agreements. We say that we what to take over all or part of the services currently provided such as accounting, auditing, field compliance, (gauging, checking measurement devices, site compliance ect.) lease and production record keeping, solicitor services etc. Generally the government would then agree to provide funding to the tribe in the amount that it is currently spending to provide those services and the legal authority to conduct the service is conveyed to the tribe. Overall oversight responsibility remains with the government, but they are generally removed from much of a local presence to exercise that responsibility. If the tribe cannot adequately provide the services with the government funding, they have to come with the extra money and government funding is generally frozen at the agreement level because of the difficulty in getting any cost adjustments later on. And we know that even with the recent budget additions the Osage agency is still way underfunded.
We would have to hire and train a large staff, because the BIA people aren’t likely to quit their BIA jobs. Computers, office equipment, vehicles, field equipment etc. all need to be acquired.
Well, you get the picture, and all these things are now provided free of charge to the Osages and if they are not provided in adequate manner to satisfy the governments trust responsibility, we can take legal action to force them to do so.
But the nuts and bolts financial risks are not the biggest downside in my opinion. Even though technically the DOI/BIA would still retain the trust responsibility to protect our mineral estate, if they have little local presence and are no longer conducting the services required to meet those trust responsibilities, how can we ever expect them to step up when we need them? We have a terrible time now getting them to take strong stands in such things as surface access issues with surface owners and industrial wind development over our biggest oil field. After compacting we would for all practical purposes be on our own against the state of Oklahoma, the huge land owners and even the powerful oil and gas industry.
Thanks Galen....I get it !
DeleteTo Osageblogger.
DeleteTina, the idea of a federally charted corporation is no unique or unheard of legal vehicle in Indian law and Sen. Inhofe and his staff would have no need of Geoff Standing Bear educating them on the subject. So drop the must be a conspiracy angle.
And Inhofe doesn’t have Andrew and me over any barrel, but Cynthia and her crew came very close to giving him an excuse to wreck the Osage Mineral Trust. And I really won’t breath completely easy until the new CFR’s are in place so that we are out of danger
.
Inhofe is a notorious enemy of Indian people (remember the “midnight rider of a few years ago?) And only damn fools would go to him and beg him to stick his nose in Osage business.
Luckily the lies that were being told around Washington that day about the proposed CFR’s were easy to disprove with verifiable facts and figures, so Andrew and I were able to show that the perfect excuse he thought he had been handed to wreck the Osage trust was full of holes. But as I said, I won’t breathe completely easy until the chance he was given to wreck us is safely removed.
Conspiracy? Don't talk down to me, Galen. What is StandingBear's angle and how does this extremely "problematic" idea show up four years ago in HIS campaign literature? I have StandingBear's old brochure when he ran for Congress in 2010 open on my computer and the text reads as follows verbatim:
Delete"I propose we separate the governance of day-to-day activities of the Mineral Estate from the Government of the Osage Constitution. How this is done will require cooperation of the Chief, the Osage Congress, the Osage Minerals Council, and the United States Department of the Interior. There are solutions which will provide close federal supervision and Osage Shareholder control of the Osage Mineral Estate while also respecting the new laws enacted by the Osage Constitutional Government. I believe the answers are in a variant of the Corporate Charters authorized by the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934, but must be unique to the Osage and with stronger protections of Indian sovereignty. This cannot be similar to the Osage LLC, but rather a federally protected entity. With my experience, knowledge, and hopes as an Osage Shareholder with Osage children and grand children who are not shareholders, I believe I can make a major contribution to protecting our rights."
Don't think you can deflect Geoffrey's responsibility in regard to putting forward this idea and if I were being a responsible member of the Minerals Council, I would speak to him directly about any conversation that he has had with Jim Inhofe about this idea of instituting a Federally chartered corporation to replace the Mineral Estate Trust.
Second, the 1938 Act has now been amended to read:
"The lands, moneys, and other properties now or hereafter held in trust or under the supervision of the United States for the Osage Tribe of Indians, the members thereof, or their heirs and assigns, shall continue subject to such trusts and supervision until January 1, 1984, and thereafter until otherwise provided by Congress."
What this means is that the U.S. Congress can unilaterally walk away from the Trust at any time without an Act of the U.S. Congress to do so. It's in the 1906 Allotment Act as amended. No CFRs, old or new, will make any difference whatsoever. So again, if I were you, I wouldn't be making false statements about the new CFRs being "in place so that we are out of danger." We have been in danger since 1978 when that amendment went into effect and if you don't know that much, you still have a lot to learn.
Going back to StandingBear, nobody puts forward ideas in their campaign literature unless they have thought it out at length and in great depth. An idea like this in the Osage could scuttle and "swift boat" any campaign if that idea and what it actually means to the future of the Federal Osage Mineral Estate Beneficiary Trust were actually known. You're the elected official paid and in charge of protecting the Mineral Estate Trust so get to the bottom of what StandingBear is really up to before the election takes place and report back to us with this information, please. If he is elected Chief, he will be in a position to do exactly as he pleases as it concerns the Mineral Estate with NO ONE TO STOP HIM as soon as we get a clean audit and that could be as little as three years from now. You've admitted before that you have been naive in the past and for that I have admired you because not many men have the strength of character to admit to it. There is more to the smoke and mirrors that have been going on here and for the sake of the Shareholders, you need to act on your responsibility to get to the bottom of it.
Reply to Osagebloger on 4/27/2014 @ 1:32 AM--- I would bet that Inhofe has had considerable experience with Federally Chartered Corporations, as well as do many others in the US Congress. This would be a cheap, easy, and legal way for the Feds to shred and shed the 1906 Act, and the responsibility it carries. No thanks! I think Inhofe might have made a thinly veiled threat to do just that too, after the 4 dumb-butt MC members took their little top secret jaunt to Washington to try to negate everything the Negotiated Rulemaking Committee had done. Then, after both the Feds, and the shareholders had spent a ton of time and money to update the cfr’s, Boone, Bear, Whitehorn, Core, and Red Eagle voted for a delay in the procedures for an INDEFINITE PERIOD OF TIME. This was not “protecting the mineral estate”, this was putting the future of the mineral estate in great jeopardy. This is what was STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. Thank God, the DOI ignored their ignorance, and went right ahead with the cfr update. I was astounded at the MC debate last night that many of the MC candidates had never even read the proposed new cfr’s (and probably not even the old ones), yet they are applying for the job of administering them for the benefit of the shareholders. Preposterous.
DeleteSpeaking of the MC debate, our choices are a little thin, but we should be able to get a council elected who can and will do the job. My choices at this time are EVERETT WALLER (a great public speaker, very knowledgeable and experienced, and lives the culture), GALEN CRUM (very knowledgeable, cares a great deal), ANDREW YATES (very knowledgeable, long experience, cares very much), RAY MCCLAIN (intelligent, experienced, good business knowledge, and seems to care very much), TALEE RED CORN (intelligent, experienced, business oriented, culturally based, served on MC1), and KATHERINE RED CORN (culturally based, served on MC1, intelligent, was always great at seeing all sides of a question). Melvin Core has had many good ideas, but he has some apologizing to do for his thoughtless trip to Washington. Joe Cheshewalla has worked in the oilfields all his life, and worked as a BIA field man for many years. He could be an excellent choice. Kenny Big Horse has been around a long time and should know how things work. He also could be an excellent choice. William St. John is totally based in information technology, and sees how important this will be. The others bring nothing with them that could help, and some have proven they are trying to wreck the train with what they do know.
One more thing, Galen. I heard from two credible sources that the language to give the Minerals Council authority and autonomy over any compact decision involving the Mineral Estate has recently been removed from Whitehorn's bill in one of the Committees. Can you get to the bottom of this too please. Thank you.
DeleteRight Galen. We need the BIA and not a compact or a contract no matter how much improvement they still need. Trust obligation is key and the stalking wolves and coyotes are at our gates. Osages seem to have a hell of a time trying to get the jam out from between their toes so to speak so never mind them ever trying to run our minerals business.
DeleteSee http://www.cherokeephoenix.org/18851/Article.aspx on information about the "Midnight Rider."
Deletegfy osageblogger. Looks like you caught Geoffrey Standing Bear red handed with the smoking gun. I heard he want to get rid of the BIA from others before he was elected on Congress last time for the same reason and every body ignored the warning. Damn fools if you ask me. Not that that hairbrained kook who owes money all over town will be any better. You were right to raise a stink about that primary election we didn't need too. Look at the choice it has staring us right in the face. Get rid of every member of Congress that went along with it. If any body can't see that the shareholders are in more trouble now than they ever have been before then they are just being stupid.
DeleteI agree with Osageblogger. If "Andrew and I spent hours talking on the phone with his chief of staff trying to convince them..." not to get involved by ending the trust and to accept the new CFRs then you have openly admitted that Inhofe violated his trust obligation as an elected member of the U.S. Senate and the government of the United States by acting against the fiduciary obligation the government has to the Osages in suggesting to end to that very fiduciary obligation that is not in the best interests of the Osage Nation or the headright owners. Someone should file a complaint with the U.S. Congressional Committee that hears such complaints against the members of the U.S. Congress. Stand up for your rights, Galen. Especially since we just won a big case in court against the BIA for violation of its trust obligations. Is there no end to what these Federal people will perpetrate against the Indians in general and the Osages in particular?
DeleteOsage blogger: I don’t know who your “credible sources” are but I was in that government operations committee meeting when ONCA13-62 was passed out of committee with a do pass recommendation. I was the only person in the room that was not a Congress person except the Osage News reporter. The operative language in section 2 paragraph C reads “Any compacts pertaining to the Osage Minerals Estate SHALL be affirmed by resolution of the Osage Minerals Council.” So your “credible sources” are wrong about what came out of committee.
DeleteI drove to Pawhuska for the sole purpose of attending that meeting because of this bill and a resolution I was helping Sheppard through committee that Alice Buffalohead introduced at my request. It states in part “The Osage Nation seeks to acknowledge that any shares or fractionated shares of the mineral estate returned are part of the mineral estate administered by the Osage Minerals Council.”
I asked to her to sponsor this resolution to ward off any confusion that might arise in any Congress persons mind (especially new ones) over who is to manage the return of mineral shares for any reason. This also was passed out of committee with a do pass recommendation.
And also, you guys sure caught Geoff red handed alright. He’s a tricky devil. He knew that four Osage Minerals Council members were going to run off to Washington with oil producers to beg the Senator to improperly intervene in legally conducted business between the Osage Minerals Council and the DOI/BIA. And Geoff, knowing that Inhofe was always looking for a chance to screw some Indians contacted him ahead of time to plant the idea of a federally chartered corporation in his mind just in case such an opurtunity should arise. Yup, I have to agree your evidence is indisputable.
No amount of sarcasm will change the fact that Geoffrey StandingBear, whom you support Galen, was touting the idea of a Federally chartered corporation to replace the BIA and the current Federal Mineral Estate Trust in his campaign literature four years ago when he ran for Congress. See it for yourself on page 2 under the Section titled, Our Mineral Rights Must Be Protected:
Deletehttp://edigital.iserver.net/osages/Standing_Bear_Campaign.pdf
I had a thought. When Galen was challenged to explain some things, he stepped up to the plate and defended his positions right here on this forum and presented facts to back them up. There is an old saying, "Stand up and take it like a man" Whether you agree with him or not he did quite well I think. By contrast...with all the negative comments and accusations concerning Cynthia on this blog she has yet to defend any of it here. Probably because the comments and accusations are based on facts and can't be defended unless she would tell a bold faced lie like she did at the debate last night. I agree with an earlier poster in that I hope voters outside of Pawhuska are listening.
DeleteWhen Galen was challenged to explain some other things about Standing Bear he evaded the issue altogether or became sarcastic in order to avoid having to confront the fact that Standing Bear, whom he supports for Chief, is for ending the Federal Mineral Estate Trust to replace it with a Federally Chartered Corporation. I find that to be very suspicious and wonder why he still supports Standing Bear when he now knows the facts.
DeleteOsageblogger, your catching and outing Standing Bear about his support of the Inhofe " solution " posted by Galen was priceless. You should savor the moment. It doesn't get better than that.
DeleteTrust Buster Standing Bear. I like it!
DeleteTONIGHT! Osage Minerals Council Candidate Debate. See http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/news-events/events/osage-minerals-council-candidate-debate#zoom=9&lat=36.4257&lon=-96.66046&layers=T0B00
ReplyDeleteSee live on the internet at http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/multimedia/live-feed-information
DeleteI believe the debate is tomorrow night.
DeleteThank you Patricia. I'm glad you caught that. Apparently, a typo has been made. It's Saturday, April 26, 2014.
DeleteSee Events Calendar at http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/news-events/events
ReplyDeleteHow on earth could they possibly be THIS STUPID? From the Osage News Facebook page---> This afternoon, the Third Osage Nation Congress members voted unanimously to support a resolution (ONCR 14-06 sponsored by Congresswoman Maria Whitehorn) that expresses "confidence in the abilities of the Osage LLC board to restructure and build our non-gaming business interests of the Osage Nation."
ReplyDeleteEdgar Bergen's or Charlie Mccarthy Ventriloquist ? _____ ______ or Galen Crum vertriloquist ? But ,one's a chump of wood we'll see this evening.H
ReplyDeleteJust returned from the Mineral Debate. First let me say that I have not changed my dream team members. Stephanie Erwin was the only one who didn’t show up. Either she didn’t think it was that important or she was sick again. One has to look at her twice. Is she up for the job?
ReplyDeleteEverett Waller was the hit of the night. Not only did he show us a delightful sense of humor, but he also let us know how extensive his knowledge is about the Mineral Estate.
The bad part of the debate is that most of the candidates didn’t answer the question that was asked. The only thing I can assume is they did not know the answer. For a few of them, it was down right embarrassing.
The evening ended with another lie from Ms. Boone. We have her recorded saying that not only did the Producers pay her way to Washington, but she would do it again. Tonight she told us she paid her own way (pretty much throwing Curtis Bear under the bus) to Washington. This change only came when she found out the Shareholders were not happy with them for going. Ms. Boone also said it was not a secret meeting. If it wasn’t why didn’t she inform the Chairman they were going. Don’t worry, Boone will be gone in June! I guess I will never understand her convoluted way of thinking.
The debate was recorded, but they had trouble getting it on line. By the time the second panel started, it was working. I was told that in a few days you can listen to it all via the computer.
Thank you, Patricia, for this synopsis.
DeleteI agree with Patricia. Through out the MC 1 and MC 2 Ms.Boone has had a fairly consistent history of lies and last night was just another example. The meeting in Washington might not have been a secret to those that went and the producers that paid for it but when the four of them went off with out informing the Chairman of the MC ( I guess she lost his phone number ) and other members, I guess it depends on your interpretation of "Secret" ? One of the producers said that he asked Cynthia, Melvin, Curtis and Dudley to go because he knew they would go and knew the others would not. And that's the truth, quote, unquote ! Ms Boone is a master of half truths and twisting things around so the story comes out her way and she has been doing it for a long time.
DeleteOne candidate in the first round spent most of her time telling us about her family and children wasting time that could have been to address the question. It is my opinion that Stephanie Erwin didn't show because she has no credentials to be on the MC and that would have been very clear in the debate.
To me the main thing that was very disappointing last night was that as usual the audio was terrible ! Half of the time you couldn't hear the MC, the person asking the questions had a week voice and a bad microphone, you couldn't hear the questions and for the most part you couldn't hear what the candidates were saying. They kept changing the microphones trying to find one that worked but even at that several of the candidates spoke so softly you couldn't hear what they were saying. According to the bulletin, the audio and video was provided by the ON communications dept. This was the same problem that they had during the debates for Chief and asst Chief. If the Cultural center is going to continue to be used for occasions such as this I would like to see permanent improvements made to the sound system in the building and someone trained to operate it ! I am going to guess the recording that willl be available for us to listen to will be just the same as the last debate because the audio was picked up off the speakers on the wall. One behind the candidates and one in the back of the room. This also caused some echo in the microphones as the candidates spoke. This was pointed out after the last debate yet nothing was corrected. It's a shame because we would have liked to heard the questions and every bodys answer.
This thread is now closed. Go to: http://osageblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/osage-shareholder-matters-april-201
ReplyDelete