https://www.facebook.com/OsageNews There is information about Native American Charter Schools that is on the Chief's agenda. Will white children be able to attend as well? Some of the Indian schools in operation today are boarding schools as the prevailing theory is that the child has to be removed from any negative influences in the home in order to succeed in life. How is this any different than the Haskell Indian School theory of the same or similar idealogy?
Wonderful! Wonderful! Wonderful! For the Elders: http://osagenews.org/en/article/2015/04/29/osage-elders-receive-supplemental-medicare-coverage-nation/
If you're over 65 and a member of the Osage Nation, call to register. It takes about 15 minutes over the phone. Thank you, Chief StandingBear, Assistant Chief Redcorn and each and every member of the Osage Nation Congress. This is marvelous and I am so grateful to you for providing this additional financial help to me every month. Bless you!
Galen Crum has an explanation for the EA mess on Ray McClain's blog. He states that the programmatic workover EA has been issued and soon everything will get back to normal. Wrong! The programmatic EA requires an ABB (American Burying Beetle) permit for many actions. This is a deal killer because these permits can only be acquired 3 months out of the year. Yeah, you heard that right. Moreover, Galen states that the production has held steady during all of the BIA mess. If you back out the bump in production from the Burbank CO2 project, production is off 2000 barrels per day. Things are far from returning to normal. Capital is fleeing the County thanks to the BIA. The Shareholders should sue the BIA again for the illegal "taking" of Osage Mineral resources.
http://osagenews.org/en/article/2015/05/01/standing-bear-plans-change-game-oil-production-osage-county/...My opinion on this Matter, Chief as designed the Osage Constitution says we are a seperate Agency..keep that in mind..Second before any change will come it will come with the discretion of the Shareholder's consent....Thirdly,....The M.C..will communicate to the Shareholder's in a format of a Mailer putting a vote to the Shareholder's the Pro's and Con's stating all facts, clearly represented by and by a lawyer and not just any Lawyer not someone you know or I know, HIRE A LAWYER WITH extensive knowledge in the gas and oil industry. Tired of this well we could have handled things better attitude will no longer be suffice. Oh and Boone funny how you can point the finger but your apart of the Problem, so when you talk its not taken with a grain of salt..it's hypocritical. When you speak the way you do you come across as not as a team player...just sayin it like it is...lastly wasn't like 8 or 9 years ago on the Osage Shareholder's blog we talked about this extensively that this very situation was trending in the Nation trying to take over the M.E? My opinion is something positive has to change and I always said there needs to be a full fledging petroleum office under our Control, the M.C Control...the Shareholder's Chief need to be comprised and not just printed in the News before you announce any decision and once again no input from our MIA Speaker. I want him replaced A.S.A.P
Bringing in Big Union for the Shareholder's as we speak if we can't get the Representation and support by our M.C and will have them file an injunction if the Shareholder's base is not notified by the Chief and or M.C and their Opinion.
Galen Crum, your Opinion on this Matter would be greatly appreciated and if you could respond to the earlier post above thank you, a much appreciated shareholder for your dedication.
Cynthia isn't a team player, thank God! She knows that the mess that has been made of the Osage Nation and how they handle themselves financially, which is ABYSMAL in every sense of the word, will soon be the case with what is now left of the ME. You can't blame her for the new CFRs and all the mess that it has caused because the team players wouldn't let her within a country mile of those NegRegs. You need to know whose on your side and who isn't in this power grab that will only destroy what is left of what the Osage Nation isn't responsible for decimating already and don't think that Super Board of Kugee's isn't going to play a part along with the ONES, LLC to try and govern the Minerals Council from the Osage Nation side by pounding down on them because if you do, you can think again. You will see signs of what will happen soon with the Chief's son running the gaming entity. I give that another six months to a year before it begins to show all of us what happens when less than competent people are at the helm.
I thought the Southern Utes and the Jicarilla Apaches used to come to us to find out how it's done. Now we are going to them? Just another expensive road trip on our nickel you ask me
Right. To you both, no I'm on the right playing field and I am on the Shareholder's side..I am 1 to be able to read between the lines and what is propaganda and what is political and what is right for the shareholders I know and you know this Estate was used to build a Nation of lies and we can go in any direction depending on the voice of our Mineral Council will do and then only we can as a Shareholder know our Next Move...I have a feeling that the New Llc will be used as a slush fund..and we still need to know how 19 million was lost by the old Llc. Government is never the solution especially one so aligned with the U.S Constitution .
When are these screwups, Yates, Galen, Abbott and Waller, going to stop trying to justify what they are doing and realize that are only working on further ruin of our ME whether they know it or not? The Osage Nation government can't pour water out of a boot. They can't even account for and budget properly the money they get from gaming and other sources of income. This is insanity at the highest level imaginable. And they have the audacity to make a move on the Mineral Estate? Letters sent to MC from BIA. Ray McClain posted copies on his web site. http://www.osages-you-need-to-know.com/ You should answer for this mess here Ray because you want the Osage Nation to run the mineral estate and you better tell the truth here and now and what's this I'm hearing about the Minerals Estate and Business plan to be run by the Nation formed and fronted by Chief Standing Bear's father-in-law, George Shannon? Ask Ray at if he won't bells up and answer these questions here RayMcClain@osages-you-need-to-know.com
I know the Mess to...ding ding ding, ...My experience with the real world with standards, and ethics and so forth..teach and tell me theres another story to unfold, but thats for another day..avail yourself to the truth and the truth will set you free...its not that she isn't trying, she is self serving and as Shareholder's its to personal. And it does not appear she has a real base for support by her colleagues either..you can Know alot about something and not really understand it. She falls into this category. To aggressive. ..I have had much better success and my CSI scores would prove you wrong...not that I am trying to that? There is no doubt our M.C is upside down...a decade later still at square one...not good..oh change needs to come and now this is Political by all Standards the Chief set the Pace and all Arrows will be pointing.
I wonder why the Executive and the MC aren't communicating as Chief Standing Bear stated in the Osage News interview? How does this situation help the shareholders? Why isn't even one member of the MC going with the Chief to investigate the Utes and the Apaches efforts at COMPACTING? Putting the BIA in a support roll means COMPACTING. Will this COMPACTING result in the shareholders and our MC assuming full responsibility for the Donelson law suit? We've already dropped a couple of hundred thousand dollars on lawyers just to monitor the activities. Total cost could easily go into the millions if it goes to the Supreme Court. NO TO COMPACTING!!
Chief change needs to come and as I have been a voice for Marketing all a long and have been asking for forarwd thinking and I must commend you for taking the initiative but it does not start with Maria Whitehorn or whoever, it starts with The M.C and as a leader it would behoove you to create a dialogue with the M.C.
Tomatoes, tomato..all the same...respect is when you have a suggestion you approach the right people first..how about that. Respect is eearned no matter who you are...what world do you live in...?
This isn't a monarchical form of government. It's a democracy and we have a distinct separation between the Osage Nation government and the independant Minerals Agency as so called out and specified in the Osage Nation Constitution. This Agency does not report to the Chief and if they did they wouldn't be independant. If they did report to the Chief, they would be in violation of the passage as so stated in the Osage Constitution.
This MC can sit on their thumbs and be independent all they want, but I don't think this Chief will put up with much more of it. This trip to visit with the Utes and Apaches is where this Chief starts. If the MC doesn't start getting something done very soon, the Chief just might do something even more drastic. The Chairman's one year term is almost up. Step down Waller, before you get taken down.
Waller I was the fisrt to request you be replaced and people are listening...like Shareholder's. ..this is just the beginning of cleaning house..so evident what needs to be done and the lifers as well....we need a turn a bout and the Shareholder's will is strong. ..
As I said there is the Osage Constitution and as I said the Chief should consult with the M.C his desire not to Over step his Boundary or his Authority.
Whats behind getting Waller to step down? Who do you want to replace him? I feel theres more to this power struggle than just Waller! Always some people wanting to divid and cause trouble among the MC. Im a shareholder and have no trouble with him. But this chief is stepping where he does not want to go. He told us at the OSA meeting one time, the 1906 act no longer is looked at by the BIA and doesn't matter, in so many words. There were many there that remember this. I see a big red flag going up about all this.
Do you remember the meeting when a producer wanted to speak about a letter sent to MC inviting them to go to D.C. with the producers and Chief to talk about this crisis and Waller would not let him talk. The Chief has invited the MC to go with him and they refused. Waller is probably just mad because he no longer works for the Chief .
What I want to know is if the Chief compacts the BIA which is clearly in the offing, will this "bust the trust," that is, the current Mineral Estate Headright owners Federally managed and administrated Trust from which we draw our checks? I take it that all of you understand the implications and what is at stake here.
Public Law 108-431 recognizes the inherent sovereign rights of the Osage Tribe to determine its own form of government, and its own membership, provided that the rights of any person to Osage mineral estate shares are not diminished thereby.
The act does not grant that government (the Osage Nation) any rights whatsoever in the mineral estate. If the Osage Nation uses funds from the mineral estate revenues in a manner which diminishes shareholder interest (i.e., income, either through misuse or mismanagement) then it would be acting in violation of Federal law. The right to the income from the mineral estate is reserved to the shareholders.
Scare tactics? It certainly got your attention. I think it's a legitimate, timely and important question and one that needs to be put directly to the Chief and the Minerals Council as soon as possible.
Getting down to serious business and rather than the Chief assaulting the Headright owners with sensational articles and the Mineral Council being mum about what's up ahead next with everybody elected treating us like rats trapped in a basement ready to be whomped on at any minute, what are the personal tax income implications of going in this direction? Mineral Trust income is non-taxable at the Federal and State level for Osages. If the Nation takes over and the trust is busted as you so aptly put it, will whatever income if any coming to the Headright owners quarterly, be subject to regular income tax at the State and Federal level? This is something I doubt anyone has even thought about never mind plan ahead for in the event the Nation does take over. Let's run an example. Say an Osage has a personal income of $30,000 a year and has a full headright of share at approximately $36,000 a year that at this time is not taxable. If the Nation takes over the income will more than double and the tax liability will be much more substantial. In addition, this level of income may disqualify a number of Osages from being able to participate in Federal programs because the income level is too high. So it becomes a lose-lose situation with 25% to 30% taken out at the State and Federal level plus whatever services have been provided for by Federal programs may no longer be available to Osages who have their yearly cash from income amount diminished in this way.
Like I said the redundancies need to be cut out will create more redundancy and create more and efficiencies by compacting...but this has gone to far..you bet..but this time all eyes a d ears are watching.
Here's where your Headright check quarterly income amounts are going to go if the Osage Nation takes over which is exactly where the money goes with gaming and other income that comes into the Osage Nation for 2015: Budget for ONCA 15-13: $21,480,856 of which, Salaries, Wages and Employee Benefits equal $12,968,794 or 60.3% of the entire budget. Budget for ONCA 15-20: $2,938,702 of which, Salaries, Wages and Employee Benefits equal $1,629,109 or 55.4% of the entire budget. Budget for ONCA 15-02: $7,204,398 of which, Salaries, Wages and Employee Benefits equal $4,339,833 or 60.2% of the entire budget. Budget for ONCA 15-14: $3,808,557 of which, Salaries, Wages and Employee Benefits equal $2,414,906 or 63.4% of the entire budget. See more here https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/congress-legislative-branch/legislation So, if $80,250,000 is disbursed to the Headright owners in a given year, after the Division of Minerals is created and the Board and the Commission and all the employees and office expense and indirect cost and travel and rental expense and legal fees and on and on forever, roughly 60% of your income will come right off the top for salaries, wages and employee benefits. Don't forget the personal service contracts and licensing and leasing and investigations and compliance and whatever else you can think of too. This is real, people, and don't think this is a joke or an overstatement of what will happen.
Forgot to mention, all the above the BIA does for free. If they're out of the picture, all that cost has to be paid for with your Headright income. DON'T LET THE CHIEF GO THERE.
Lol thank you for taking the time to spell this out I could not agree more..building our infrastructure from with in the more wiser...Move..or the choice willcome where we will have to step in and elect a New M.C. NotIce no question mark.
The flip side of the coin: https://www.hcn.org/issues/42.12/the-ute-paradox/print_view They get member financial support from what the Ute Tribe does because they spend the money to grow their businesses, not on paying $20-30 million in government salaries and benefits a year to everyone they are related to or who they know that vote in the elections.
From 3,100 Southern Ute members down to 1,375. 55% of the membership gone overnight? What happened? Is the Chief looking into how they did that? http://www.deseretnews.com/article/650192878/Utes-thriving-after-nearly-going-broke.html?pg=all
The thing is that there is no one who will work with these government Osages because they are so unethical, vindictive, greedy and jealous of everyone including one another and these qualities make it impossible for them to be trusted in the business world. Ask anyone who has tried to help them. No one of any quality or calibre will come anywhere near. Look how they dealt with the oil producers when it looked like they could get a better market price on leases that had already been negotiated. It was ugly and that Abbott fellow on the Mineral Council lead the charge with Yates and Crum right behind. Gaming's the same thing. They're dead in the water and don't know it. The best they've got is the BIA and the BIA would trash them if they could get away with it and probably will before too much longer. They're like a kid who wants to break out of kindergarden but has no idea how to get back home once he's gotten out. Look at the way they've treated the Headright annuitants since 2006 and what they're trying to do to them now. Even the way they treat the Mineral Council is the way they treat everyone that gets in their way. It's over and they would do well not to burn any more bridges than they have already.
I can see the forest for the trees..I am in work progress for tbe Shareholder's as we speak...by all definitions I have the angle for succes. But I never devulge development until proper parties are notified.
You don't even mention the membership outside of Osage County or the non-shareholders. Look how they've been treated. Total non-entities other than at election time.
What's important to understand is that the Osage Nation will be enriched with this new plan going forward. The Osage Headright share owners will not. The focus of the decision makers in the Federal government back a hundred years or so ago who had the wisdom to see that if the Osage Tribe were to benefit, was that it would break down into factions as to who would benefit from the income and as a result they made sure in the 1906 Allotment Act that the money from the oil royalty income would be distributed directly to the Tribal members in a pro-rata share by the Trust created at that time. What it's beginning to look like now with this new plan is that the Nation will be in charge of collecting the royalty income and the distribution of it. Some Osages in our local area are being enticed by the thinking that the pot will be bigger for the current Osage shareholders if the BIA is out of the picture altogether when the non-Osages and other entities no longer have have a piece of the pie but the hard cost to run things will be through the roof before its over and whatever income will be absorbed into the Nation's expenses and whatever they come up with to run things. I'm hearing that everyone is scrambling right now to put together a compacting agreement to present to the BIA. Remember that the enticement for the Osage Constitution was that everyone would be treated fairly and it would be a good thing because everyone would benefit and have benefits coming in to them no matter who they were or where they lived. It hasn't exactly worked out that way now has it? It won't work out that way for the Osage Headright owners especially those who live away either. Any group of government officials that would throw the entire former Osage Tribal membership out on their ear by law is not a good group to trust or believe in. Remember this fact going forward.
Why the hell doesn't Galen or Ray McClain respond to any of these comments on this blog? If they don't come forward with some answers right here, I'm going to become suspicious of their intentions myself.
Not good enough. He can respond to our concerns here. My question to him is, are you putting together a plan to compact the Mineral Estate either with the Chief and the Osage Nation or with the other members of the Mineral Council? Yes or no, Galen? It's a simple question.
And this is ok to point out the facts and all, and to assure this wont and will not happen..lets put it this way the Chief continues to push the right buttons this could only go one way....or no other way and I'm being so vague as to...just wait and see..the Majority is not the Chief and he knows this and I'm sure he will bring his Ideas to the Table but thats all they are right no harm no foul...But it is ultimately the Shareholder's that will determine the outcome, not the Chief...
We are nothing to the Council if we fall on death ear...so is it fair to say they have fallen in thier fiscal responsibility to the Shareholder's Yes..compacting is about taking more of the responsibility is our inherent right. But with Great responsibility great negotiating must take place for the benefit of the Shareholder will not not go unrecognized. ..and this is why I am suspect of the Chief had he gone to the Council first..this is underhanded for all appearances soory Chief .
The thing about that article that stands out like a neon sign is no transparency with these S. Utes. You don't know for sure what the balance sheet looks like and for all you know, the banks could be running everything just like with the Pequots who have government officials running their outfit just like ours who couldn't stop spending money until, for them, it was so out of control that they were no longer running things and then the banks took over. Full circle just like this article says http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46883766/ns/us_news-life/t/tribe-billion-debt-after-casino-bonanza/
The shareholders staked the tribe to the gaming business and asked for and got nothing back in the way of profits. Compact that all you want to, it was our gift, I guess. But leave the Minerals estate and the MC alone. We can work out our problems. No compacting. Compacting is a little like constipating. We don't want that either.
ONES, LLC can achieve success in the same way the Utes did and WITHOUT compacting. If they want to get into drilling, then do like the other producers and purchase leases.
The Shareholder's staked the tribe my Arse of a lie. B.S if I heard ever...prove it..it just took one phone call remember? .and no it is a conflict of interest to the Shareholder's if the Nation gets involved period. ..it is bad enough we have two sitting bodies the OSA time to dissolve and get the Council to do what they should be doing ? Essentially we have people getting paid for what, when you have lawyers doing the work for them...
Na it is time to start paying 75 dollars an hour to sit and conduct a meeting per person , you can't hear anyway. 7200 a year for meeting cost...for 8 M.C members . That sounds about right. This is what happens when you have a body of elected officials that has proven to have no communication to the Shareholder's and no transperency.
See New health benefit services for Osage elders at https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/news-events/news/new-health-benefit-services-osage-elders APPLICATION DEADLINE is May 23, 2015! Call: 1-877-722-6973 for more information.
Thank you. Did not know about the deadline. Wish that office would pay out some of that money I sent them slips for. Don't do any good to call I heard.
Several people tried to tell you what was coming down the pike more than 2 years ago but no one would listen. Now that it's all about to come to fruition, interest is being stirred? Recall that this new Osage Nation Government isn't legal in the first place because only Shareholders (members of the tribe according to the 1906 Act) had voting rights on the matter of changing or not changing their form of government but non-shareholder OF COURSE voted to change it. (Illegal votes). If this had been taken seriously by the Shareholders in the first place we wouldn't be facing this nonsense today. As some folks tried over 2 (two) years ago to insist that the U.S. Congress intervene because the BIA wouldn't get involved and allowed this illegal "takeover." - there was not enough support from shareholders to get behind the movement at the time . Now perhaps the disinterested are getting interested?
Thank you! I have been warning people from the time of the OGRC in 2005 by e-mail that not enough was was known about what the Osages on that Commission were actually doing. Not that more than 2 or 3 people showed up to their meetings once a week in the evening while the new Constitution was being framed, mind you. Now this makes me sick because the Chief does have a point because the BIA has this Mineral Estate locked down and the Feds hire on that kayaker to run the BIA who is a no-carbon footprinter from the word go. Then we get this report that the BIA is totally out to lunch from top to bottom and that the Mineral Council's involvement is a hindrance to progress which ultimately means more business opportunity destroying regulations for those who are pulling oil and gas out of the oilfield right now. Instead of clearing those windmills off of the land and acting like a powerful and legally empowered Bureau of the Federal government and let the courts decide the matter later, we have the horrible burden of these wind machines all over the place. Yet, when a private party sues them, they bow and kowtow by throwing up 400 more pages of regulations instead of realizing that the most sacred and important relationship they have is the fiduciary one owed by law to the Osage Nation and the Osage Headright owners. The BIA enables nothing good for the Osages as far as I can see right now and I wish the Court of Federal Claims would reopen the HPP case and slap the Federal government with billions more that was truly owed to us in that lawsuit. On the other hand, to have these government Osages run things would be so dismal it would be like having to live out the original film Night of the Living Dead for real with them coming to sink their teeth into the money in our Headright checks relentlessly day and night and day and night. We're in as tight a spot as it gets and there is no doubt about it despite the legal protections of this apparently fictional fiduciary obligation owed to us by the Federal government. The Osages have proved that they have no business running and oil business with their ruinous attempt at diversifying with that Osage, LLC and soon they will be proving the same with gaming because they are now in charge and full control with the Chief's son as CEO. How are we expected to expect anything other than the worst?
The problem is always the same...that game is over...their nneds to be a bigger base.to have a bigger response to what is being said not the few get it
O' by the wayvI know who is posting above @11 30 am...I know whonyou are..yup. Its called hand rrecognition. You have a certain way about you..and I have been right behind you learning as much as you inspired to. Thank you..By golly if well I now I am armed...and more educated than ever and my eyes are wide open.
If there are 700 Osages MIA who shoild be receiving a settlement check fromthe Cobell Settlement where and who are they and or are they ligit names some of them so similar in nature and could these names be tied to the names on the flether list of entities?
Thats a 40% lost in revenue that is going unregulated! The natural gas. Ah me thinks the BIA has some explaining to do, this report came out in 2010..and we are still at square 1...with this matter...can you imagine your checks increasing by 40 % and what is Our M.C doing to insure fiscal responsibility? We want this handled like yesterday oh another suit can and will be filed buf in the Billons..
This has been much worse here in the Osage for 100 years and more, most especially with the gas accounting.. That's what the BIA is trying to correct, among many more things. That is one of the main reasons for the CFR changes. Yet many, including some of our MC, are griping about the CFR changes. It's pretty hard to fix things when everyone, and I mean nearly everyone, is taking pot shots at them every time they turn around. This MC needs to start working with them and asking what they can do to help. A little shareholder support wouldn't hurt either. Threatening to file another lawsuit helps nothing.
I'm one of the big supporters of righting the wrong, and Shareholders input is a must, we are the drivers, right? No longer in the dark. Yes, it does, another suit does ands says alot, its like shooting a gun without the gun powder. Nah Ive played with lots of money and I know about suits and the intended consequnce, if your losing hands over fistbin money because the person in this case, the Federal Gov. Knows what is happening as we speak, yes we have another suit until they get it right we can dance...you said a 100 years is long enough.
You want to see what will undoubtedly happen if that Osage Nation Energy Services, LLC gets a head of wind, paid for with our headright payment money? Read the comments on the Osage, LLC by scrolling to the bottom of this web page right here http://osageblog.blogspot.com/2015/04/conversation-april-2015.html
Up against those damn drummonds again http://www.tulsaworld.com/communities/bartlesville/jenks-bartlesville-men-named-to-oklahoma-water-resources-board/article_7e546d18-4112-5053-bf4c-437e598fe164.html
My question is if the Shareholder's put up the capital to start the gaming operations, why are the Shareholder's not receiving any additional revenue for supply the capital???? This needs to be looked into, because wouldn't the Shareholder's have to vote in order for the nation to use any Mineral Royalties??? Just a thought......
Once again this fact was pointed out several years ago. If you read the 1906 Act you'll find that the Reservation belongs to the shareholders not the nation so any income coming from the casino on the Reservation should be paid to the shareholders along with lease income for the land or better yet, surrendered totally to the Shareholders for revenue purposes. In other words, shareholders need to get back what the nation has stolen in broad daylight. (Hostile Takeover) Does that ring any bells?
Quote this section of the 1906 Allotment Act that says anything of the sort. Some of us have actually read it chapter and verse. A pleasant yarn you spin but that's about it.
Ninth Provision: ‘There shall be RESERVED from selection and division, as herein provided, the northeast quarter of section three, township twenty-five, range nine east, of the Indian meridian, and one hundred and sixty acres to conform to the public survey at the town of Gray Horse, including the Government doctor’s building, other valuable buildings and the cemetery, and the one hundred sixty acres to conform to the public survey, adjoining or near the town site of Hominy; said lands or tracts are hereby set aside for the use and benefit of the Osage Indians, exclusively, for dwelling purposes, for a period of twenty-five years from and after the first day of January nineteen hundred and seven: Provided, that said land may, in the discretion of the Osage tribe, be sold under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe; and the proceeds of the same under such sale shall be apportioned and placed to the credit of the individuals members of the tribe according to the roll herein provided for.” (The roll herein provided for is the original tribal roll NOT THE NATION)
Second Provision – 1906 Act – Pawhuska, Gray Horse & Hominy Reservations “Reserved” – grazing lease income, property sales, oil, gas coal and other minerals. Second: That the royalty received from oil, gas, coal and other mineral leases upon the lands for which selection and division are herein provided, and all moneys received from the sale of town lots, together with the buildings thereon, and all moneys received from the sale of the three reservations of one hundred and sixty acres each heretofore reserved for dwelling purposes, and all moneys received from grazing lands, shall be placed in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of the members of the Osage tribe of Indians as other moneys of said tribe are to be deposited under the provisions of this act, and the same shall be distributed to the individual members of said Osage tribe according to the roll provided for herein, in the manner and at the same time that payments are made of interest on other moneys held in trust for the Osages by the United States, except as herein provided. (What about the Kansas Land that was left to the shareholders? What about that lease income? Where is it going? What about the headrights that were left to the shareholders (Tribe)? Where is that money? How much is in the secret S-510 account? Why aren’t the shareholders receiving that money quarterly as prescribed by the 1906 Act? – Why isn’t that money being deposited into the trust for the government to disburse quarterly? What is really going on here? – Yes and what about the lease income from the Pawhuska casino as well as the revenue from the casino?)
Sometimes you guys scare me to death. Has it occurred to you that whatever proceeds from land that has been sold as identified in the original 1906 Allotment Act since 1906 has already been distributed to the headright annuitants at the time of the sale per the Act probably long ago? The shareholders don't have an interest in the land associated with the Villages until the land is sold and payment for it is made and whatever is still there and unsold is retained in the Trust as land in Trust by the U.S. government according to the 1906 Act.
Tunnel vision is pretty scary also…Try thinking outside the box…….Did it occur to you that when the 1906 Act refers to Tribe it is referring to shareholders? Did it occur to you that if shareholders (Individual Tribe members) would receive proceeds from the sale in the event the reservations are ever sold pretty much means that the property belongs to the shareholders? Did it occur to you that if the tribe holds title to any land today it would mean shareholders hold it and should receive lease/grazing income from it rather than a new found nation? Rest assured, the 1906 Act wasn’t written for a nation, it was written for a tribe.------Yes past business has been conducted but current business and holdings exist today also.
"use and benefit of the Osage Indians" does not imply ownership. Getting creative outside the box is one thing. Taking liberties with the prevailing legalities of the situation is another and beyond that, what you suggest is utter fiction.
Thats been thought of in addition we need to formulate a criteria and standard that will create sound business ethics this has to be done evidence of lack of competency. The facts as they are. By all definitions we need to put a better council together one that works for the Shareholder's for transperency. ..somone has to beg to ask is why hasn't this happened? Nah its time to get busy or be removed by the very people that elected you this is today...
For whom? I want someone in there including Cynthia who is going to fight against so many regulations that the only oil companies who are capable of doing the work in Osage County have no other choice but to up and go away. Why can't you get this? If you run them off, they aren't coming back and probably won't even if they wanted to because they don't want their entire careers upended by the capricious rules, regulations and requirements of the BIA and the DOI.
Majority rules just because you want does not mean it will happen, we are in a hell of a position to make a decision and it will be done by a vote so don't get your undies in a wad....change will come _weather you like it or not.Out with the old and here comes the 20th century thinking...nah Cynthia I have better plans for her...shes not going to be on the Council but her position will be of great importance she has a lot to offer...and way more Authority but in much better area of the BUSINESS. I have had the luxxary of studying the Nation and the confkicts of inerest and the Estate neither of which the circumstance should we be in right...for the people by the people of the people and in either way tnis has not happened as designed. You can get mad about what is not happening and yeaterday is here...a leopard will not chage its spots in other words the Shareholder's must insist...and I am one to recon with..we can not have more of the same...And I have ran suusuccessful businesses to five star and I can bring a lot more talent...of course the New Council will be on the same page..and Osage..no worryes our Culture in tact...and whats even better the IT system will be set up like it should...next meetings you will be able to hear all audio, live feed skype and as a Shareholder you will be able to respond...and any device will be compatible, this is some of the things I will bring to the Shareholder's communication. And this is just the tip...we all want it and need it...you guys can complain all you want...and keep it up...but I'm one to get things done.
Lol ,You need to educate yourself you can kick scream about those Regulations so long over due you will be going to the bank happy..I can assure you it does not matter as the facts speak for themselves the Regs have been in the makes before the HPP case...and Cynthia would not be able to do anything. Can you tell me her position on the Council and what she does? And I want precise, expressed detail what her role is?
I told you all that this blog is not going to become a whipping post for your ugly comments about Cynthia. I have a good memory and in the last Mineral Council go round it was 5 to 3 against these new CFRs and those members of the three were Sonny Abbot, Galen Crum and Andrew Yates. The new Minerals Council is also divided on these new CFRs and it's also 5 to 3 again, with the three being Everett Waller, Galen Crum and Andrew Yates. These are the members of the Minerals Council who are supporting the Federal government's attempt, after the punishing HPP lawsuit was settled against them, to make these new CFR changes. The important matter at hand here is whether or not these new regulations will interfere and diminish the oil and gas business and the key words here are "such as it was prior to the NegReg proposed changes." Business has dropped off substantially BEFORE the price of oil dropped and oil companies that held leases left and sold their interest to other companies in a flight out of Osage County. The new CFRs have not been put in place to date that I am aware of but the threat of what they will cause is impending. Permit me to quote from an earlier Osage Blog Post: "Whoever said "good for Galen" is totally misinformed about the potential train wreck that will be caused by the pending NEG REGS. Of course Galen would vote "no" because of his huge pride of authorship in the monstrosity of the NEGREGS. These regulations, through the ONRR program (Office of Natural Resource Revenue) will guarantee that most producers will not have the time or computer ability to comply with the onerous reporting requirements. The resultant fines levied by the Superintendent will cause many operators to just walk away. The production is already down over 2000/barrels per day, not because of lower oil prices, but because of current and pending BIA actions. Galen Crum, along with Andrew Yates and Sonny Abbott, have performed a lobotomy on the County. The Mineral Estate is slowly dying away and those three think they deserve a pat on the back." Certainly Galen, Andrew, Everett, Sonny and Ray McLain have the absolute right to their opinion but, it's my personal belief that a plethora of business regulations at the Federal and State level slow and impede the progress of business and that's any business you can think of anywhere in the world. Not only do the oil producers have to contend with a whole new set of strident regulations and fines associated with them, the BIA, as a result of the Donalson lawsuit has slapped another 400 plus pages of regulations as well so when I read the above Osage Blog post, I have a tendency to take it seriously.
There are those Osages and even oil producers in Osage County who feel that the DOI and the BIA are doing what they are doing in a vindictive manner to punish the Osages for the HPP lawsuit. I'm reserving judgment but all the same, it does appear that they are, by their actions, making it difficult if not impossible for "business as usual" before the HPP lawsuit was settled when payment checks per quarter were in the $9,000 to $10,000 range per quarter, prior to the announcement of the NegRegs produced new CFRs when things almost immediately began to slow down with the outcry coming from the only quarter; the oil producers, that are going to make money for those with a Headright interest. I heard yesterday from an Osage in a position to know that the upcoming quarterly check will be in the neighborhood of $4,000, a substantial drop from where it was a year or more ago. In addition, we have the wind machines all over Burbank and so on that does not bode well. If the BIA wrote a letter to cease and desist to the Italian company putting up the wind farm machines, why was a whopping fine not issued to them for refusing to comply? These are the tools of the Federal government, why were they not used to stop the progress of this company? Instead, they chose to get legal which is the slowest path possible to obtain the results legally required in a legal environment that is not favorable to Native Americans at either the State or Federal level. It appears to me that the argument can be made that the DOI and the BIA are not appearing to operate on our team per the fiduciary obligation they have to both the Osage Nation and the Headright owners. Standing back, the situation is personally horrifying to me especially since Osages with Headright checks are being hurt by what is happening today and I see no end in sight. Once these regulations are in play, we are going to have to deal with unintended consequences and there will be no turning back to the status quo pre NegReg CFRs and Performance EAs and whatever all else is up ahead next. Beyond whopping fines that will go back to the Federal government and not benefit the Headright owners, what I want to know, if all these regulations are the steak, where's the sizzle? What benefits will we see from hundreds of pages of new regulations? It's a fair question. Please be specific.
First and formost there is no whipping post going on, change will come at a cost...and you Osageblogger have to let people express their First Admendment. Which is why you opened this site to give people a Voice...or shut it down, you of all people should no better. Right and I am a big supporter what needs to happen...simple shape up or we will do the nessasary ,as Shareholder's. So, we know are check will be 50% less this was warned many times over....drilling stoped everywhere and it wasn't just here...thousands have lost there jobs because of supply and demand and Opec flooding the Market even your wrong to a degree about the circumstance...but really no one is bashing anyone just stating what is coming down the pike.....I own more oil than just the Osage so tell more what needs to happen or someone please tell me why the regs are going to hurt? Off the Res, the regs that I have to deal with are the same and I'm still making money not so much because of the flood of oil But the regs are the same...so you tell me how are we not going to make money with the new regs...I can tell you because I get the NYMEX price my net is better and I can tell you there is no by passing any natural gas? You couldn't talk more to the right person....worked with some of the greatest people...multi billion dollar Buisnesses...so tell me something different. I woulld be more specific what needs to happen and I have spoken on these issues already...I support these changes and for the Better...
Many sides to this as pointed with many confused and this is why we need a full running Petroleum office...I know whats going on with my wells at all time if there is something wrong I can get assistance and find out the stats and so forth with the future lined out. This is the private sector and you would have thought our M.E would be in a better position and I can tell you why...someone doesn't want an efficient and effective M.E and I have my own opinion as to why...nothing is an accident and long live the 1906 act and my eyes are wide open..much appreciate this site..but reality is today and change for the better, change needs to come for the Shareholder's and a voice is needed...Hard changes need to happen...
$4,405.00 per Headright. As usual, the Shareholders get shafted but at least the Osage government is going to continue to make millions through the casinos. Gotta pay that $100K for the Chief and the $60K for each Congress member plus all the pets projects. The ME will soon be in control of the Osage Government because something has to pay the electric bill for the new campus. I hope you enjoyed the HPP payoff because that was the last hooray for the Shareholders. It's just a slow, painful death from here on. Thank the 2006 Chief and his legal cronies for this mess. But hey, that ol' Chief and his friends are millionaires now and his successor got his nieces and nephews sweet jobs at the casinos. That's all that matters - close friends and family get the pie, the rest of us gets the crumbs. GO TEAM OSAGE!
Man someone sure does know how to spead the lies...the M.E will go on.without the Nation getting involved it isn't up the Nation...bottom line if they get involved there will be suits filed and the the Nation will be in a lot of hurt...this is a Shareholder's response to a person that is half educated.
Laws don’t matter. According to the 1906 Act ONLY the shareholders were supposed to be allowed to vote in a new government – not every Osage in existence. The goal of the new government was to control the casino revenues and build a bureaucracy to control those revenues. The only way to get the new government to put fear into the Osages that the Tribe would no longer exist if the last full-blood Shareholder dies. The Vote for the new government was a sham and the only way to overthrow the Shareholders was to have them outnumbered by non-shareholders. This is a de-facto government – it is by law an illegal government. But laws don’t matter as long as money and power is involved.
Yes, the ME will go on but the Shareholders will eventually receive nothing or next to nothing when the Osage Government finally wrestles control of the ME revenue from the Shareholders once and for all. Don’t you remember that the Osage Government tried to highjack the HPP case? Don’t you remember that the lawyers were insisting that the HPP money belong to the “Osage Nation” rather than the Shareholders themselves? The term Osage Nation replaced the term Osage Tribe for various reasons. One of those reasons was to obtain the HPP revenue and to make claim that the “Nation” owns and controls the ME and therefore should receive the ME revenue in the future.
You and I as individuals are not the “Osage Nation”. We are merely people who have voting rights to determine who sits in office. The ‘Osage Nation” is a bureaucracy to make its own rules, to employ certain people in power, and to control capital enterprises. The Osage Government has done nothing but grow in totalitarian power and consumption of resources. It will continue to grow in its bureaucracy until everything is consumed in its path. The Osage Government is here to stay because it gives a few the power over the people, the money, and the resources.
I mentioned all this during the previous Osage Shareholder’s log web sight. Everything I said was true then as it is true today. Nothing this government surprises me because people who seek power and influence will do anything to obtain power and influence.
One needs to analyse the 2004 affirmation Act of the U.S. Congress. It states that the Osages can determine their own form of goverrnment and determine their own membership. Where it gets tricky is this determinative phrase, "...not membership in the Osage Tribe for all purposes." The legal question is whether or not the membership was opened up to all Osages at the time that this Act was signed by President Bush. Certainly Hepsi Barnettt and the OGRC thought so and went forward from that point to include every Osage they could find and get to register to vote in both the Referednum and Constitutional elections. What do you think?
SECTION 1. REAFFIRMATION OF CERTAIN RIGHTS OF THE “OSAGE TRIBE”
"The legal question is whether or not the membership was opened up to all Osages at the time that this Act”….. NO NO NO and again NO. ----O-N-L-Y----- members of the Osage Tribe as defined by the 1906 Act (Shareholders) were allowed to change the government. The reason for this restriction was to protect the Shareholders and the ME from being diminished and taken over by non-shareholder interest. This includes the Federal government, oil producers, corporations, The State of Oklahoma, and non-shareholders and non-Osages. The Public Law 108–431 2004 reaffirmation of certain rights of the Osage Tribe was a REAFFIRMATION of the 1906 Act concerning the “Osage Tribe” a.k.a the Shareholders not every Osage and not any non-Osage shareholder.
Right now, the only true supporters of the new government are the ones in power. The non-shareholders participated in an illegal vote because they were led to believe they would get a piece of the ME and moreover hoping to get a per cap from the casino revenue. Many non-shareholders voted merely out of spite to overthrow the Shareholders. The ol’ Chief and his cronies promised the moon and all the stars in heaven if the non-shareholders voted in a new government. Many people are disillusioned and realize they were merely pawns in a game of money and power.
The Osage Government desperately wants the ME revenue and there will never ever in a millions years be a per cap. Why? Imagine having to dole out casino revenue to 14,000 people. Not gonna happen, nope, nada, never. The Osage Government is a system of consumption and control. The system is not a Shareholder / non-Shareholder relationship but rather a political class / common man relationship. The political class has an insatiable desire to control everything for the sake of the government. BTW, doesn’t anyone remember that one particular Congress member who suggested taxing the ME? Yeah, you know who I’m talking about.
Speaking of taxes The Osage politicians better enjoy their government while it last. The Feds will someday turn its eyes on the Casino revenue and the Indians better pay Uncle Sam his new taxes or else the Osage Nation will lose it’s “sovereignty” once and for all. Ah yes, I can see it now, The Osage Government in drowning lawsuit after lawsuit just to keep itself alive. Better tighten up those slot machines because it’s gonna get real expensive to fight Old Man Sam.
Anyway, I just popped in here to say what I wanted to say. But I don’t want to re-hash everything I said before because what has been done is done and there is no turning back. Shareholder interest has been diminished. The ME has been diminished. A few select people became quite wealthy by stabbing the Shareholders in the back and lying to the Osage people. The Feds will eventually tax and/or destroy the tribal nations once and for all. I know this is all pretty gloomy but the reality of this world is about power, influence, and money - and the Osages are no different. GO TEAM OSAGE!
It's hard to argue your point of view when members of Congress like that Bad Buffalohead seem alarmed at how much money is being spent on programs for direct services to the membership like healthcare and education; wanting a head count of the membership in the last Congressional Session when a cool $30 mill is going to float that corrupt boat otherwise known as the Osage Nation government. 15% comes right off the top of the yearly budget for them to horde away from the membership while salaries grow with 3% bonuses a year that are entirely undeserved and unjustified. Then they have the nerve to act like we're only in it for the money as if they aren't filthy with greed, all the while getting double and triple in salary and benefits what they should be getting for what can only be seen to be part time jobs. Yes, we have been hideously used despite what we were lead to believe would take place before and, let me emphasize, after the old government was replaced with this juggernaut of a government. The thing is that they are going where they are going as a result of a U.S. Executive Branch Court; the Interior Board of Indian Appeals, the highest Administrative Court of the United States Department of the Interior. The same Board of Indian Appeals probably weighed in in a similar manner on the Osage National Council government back in the 1990's that the Judicial Federal 10th Circuit Court, on appeal, threw right it in the trash can where it belonged in the first place. The Interior Board of Indian Appeals is not a Judicial Branch court and is by no means the final say in the matter. I spoke with an Osage who is very up on what is going on and this individual was totally confused and bamboozled by the Osage Nation's attempt to make it seem like this court is the one with the final decision making power which is total disinformation. The Executive Branch clarifies what it sees as the law that it's tasked to execute but it is the Judicial Branch that interprets the law and they are the final legal authority in the matter. Always a slight of hand with these Osage Nation government Osages. That's why no one wants to work with them.
I think this may be it: Federal government releases new Osage County rules http://journalrecord.com/2015/05/08/federal-government-to-release-new-osage-rules-monday-energy/
Game, set and match to the Department of the Interior! Now let's see if you're right Sonny and Galen and Andrew and Everett or if this is really the death knell of the income stream coming in from the Mineral Estate to punish the Osages for winning the HPP lawsuit.
Ok all I have to say to you naysayers alas we are now moving in the direction for the Shareholder's ,now this has been a hot topic but we had to make these changes and as I've said before we should be focused on moving forward with with forward thinking yeah right well thats going to change. And each and everyone of the Naysayers need to read and weep...a win for the Shareholder's long over due...we are currently now caught up with the 21st century and will not be losing hand over fist full of dollars. let me make one thing clear the 1906 act is intact and recognized. It's mentioned all over the place and the power of the council still intact...just amazing how the Naysayers would have you believe differently as the above post...Forget about it, here comes forward thinking something that the MC could have been doing all the while we were in the midst of this transition. As I have said this was nessasary for accountability reasons and this protects everyone involved. The 1906 act is recognized and protected in the interest of the M.E and SHAREHOLDER'S! So, the sore loser who posted such non sense we now will move forward and really we need to get rid and start cleaning house...change will come to the M.C. The CFR'S are done...and changed and why should we as Shareholder's stop there..sorry this does not mean this is going to happen fast, what I don't get what has the Council done in three years that should have been done yesterday? It is a very long read and and actually will be quite try some of the comments and the audacity.But I will touch more on the subject but feeling a little underweather.
OK. You can't drill deep and horizontal wells haven't panned out. You'll be rid of the small producers who are the only ones who can afford to stay on and pull out 3-10 barrels a day so who will be left to undertake this big 21st Century change of yours? When Sonny's three plus headrights all drop off to half of what one of them was worth before the new CFRs were put together, will he get up to speed then? He won't be man enough to apologize to anyone then but he will still be the man responsible for having destroyed the income generating Osage Mineral Estate for all the headright owners. You were warned against this and still you persisted. You don't deserve what you have because you think of no one but yourselves and nothing can dissuade you from this self-destructive path.
Now your being a sore loser and thats not becoming. I would like to hear from the Council and when the coming out party will begin...in other words will thay put a statement out...they have all the letters submitted by the BIA. And now we can focus our attention on building a future by the Shareholder's demand...term limits and replacement....transperency with communication long over due.A clean slate with fresh innovative thinking...our future is today and ours to see...as I've said time after time...oil else where is doing fine with these regs and so we will be fine to...as I have said I own wells outside the M.E and with these regs no impact...bunch of lies...as a matter of fact, when it comes to the NEPA requirements we are more impacted by their influence more than the M.E will ever be..because we are unique, the 1906 Act prevails...My opinion ,we could not be more estatic. One of the big issues is well plugging...whos responsible. And is defined now. With the old contracts we will be getting the NYMEX price from here on in...so you tell me how the checks are going to be influenced, in our direction...so you tell me how I don't deserve what I have? Bottom line, I would never say that to any one no matter how you felt and really we are here in the same boat, just the same, we all want the same thing and that is to bring INTEGRITY to the M.E. To the Chief still lookin to compact the ME that won't happen..and the State of Oklahoma has no say..to put it simpler. Fines and fees have risen but only to ensure our stability that everything is insured to protect tthe interest of the M.E now in alignment with the 21st century. It is evident as I've said before that we need a full running Petroleum office..it is clear that we must maintain a relationship with the surface owners and why there is a huge gap in what I coin is somewhere they got lost in translation. .and the rapport could not come sooner..but now defined in the Regs they now know their rights as we do. When you go on someones land you better have every document to support why you are there with respect. This is truly long past due should we building apon improving on top of and get out of the reverse mode...we can be our own worst enemy and this will not suffice any longer.
I would really like to be wrong but we'll see. No Osage in this new government will ever admit to making a big mistake or failing so no one will accept responsibility in any event. The headright check quarterly amounts will tell bottom line and what the reaction of the men who pull the oil and gas out of the ground. You should listen to the meetings. Tribes are operational with these regs and they are not happy. In fact, one of them has filed a lawsuit as result of what isn't that should be happening. You've gotten what you want but don't count on the BIA compacting situation going away anytime soon because the new CFRs haven't guaranteed that this won't happen in the future. The U.S. Congress says to take a walk, the Feds will do exactly that and no new Act of the U.S. Congress is required to protect you. The moral of the story is, it's not smart to sue the Federal government. From here on in, know this; the Feds are not your friend and never will be again if they ever were in the first place. They know how to play rough all over the world and from now on you can expect that it will be the same for you and all the rest of us as a result.
Yes.. Provisions for ensuring the protection of groundwater supplies by requiring a validation of well integrity and strong cement barriers between the wellbore and water zones through which the wellbore passes; • Increased transparency by requiring companies to publicly disclose chemicals used in hydraulic fracturing to the Bureau of Land Management through the website FracFocus, within 30 days of completing fracturing operations; • Higher standards for interim storage of recovered waste fluids from hydraulic fracturing to mitigate risks to air, water and wildlife; • Measures to lower the risk of cross-well contamination with chemicals and fluids used in the fracturing operation, by requiring companies to submit more detailed information on the geology, depth, and location of preexisting wells to afford the BLM an opportunity to better evaluate and manage unique site characteristics.
Thank you. It does and I appreciate your taking the time for the clarification. Where I'm hung up is this phrase, "to afford the BLM an opportunity to better evaluate and manage unique site characteristics." I thought the BLM was to be no where in sight and that it was the BIA that was going to manage and administrate the new CFRs in Osage County.
This is supplemental. Most of the Regs or all are performed any way and is part of the (APD) process, because of The NEPA requirements and the E.A..is performed before the permitting is and was in the Original CFR'S anyway...and is currently performed by the operations. this being a added aide to protect all interest involved. This is my take if I have right..lots of read..and interesting. .not that big of a deal. And somewhere back in my memory banks, the BIA has the discretion one way or the other to use as a template if necessary but by the looks most operators are compliant anyway as added security and benefit to them in all of the processes..non of this in the Private Sector goes amiss. Though we the Osage can be sure failure is not an option.
Never mind about these guys right? but somebody's not happy Osage County operators decry new regulations http://journalrecord.com/2015/05/11/osage-operators-decry-new-cfrs-energy/
The new CFR's are a travesty. The bonding requirements alone will impair or prevent most small operators from continued business in the County. Currently, the regulations state that bonding is $5000/quarter section or 160 acres, regardless of the number of wells. The new regs state that bonding will be $5000/well. Capped at 25 wells. Most little guys don't have that kind of cash lying around. Back up the trailers. Lots of guys will be leavin' town.
I know one guy who has at least 16 wells on one single lease. How far do you think the old $5,000 would go if he should walk away. If you happened to encounter just a little bad luck, you might not even plug one of those wells with $5,000. Yay for the new CFR's. Besides, a $5,000 bond for a single well will cost about $500, and by the way, it's a one time expense. The bond does not expire with time. This is just a cost of doing business. Someone said awhile back that you couldn't insure a new car for $500, and that's an annual expense.
And the truth will set you free...comments from those in the Osage who really know what's going on. Don't buy the government line that it's the price of oil that's caused the problem. It started with the NegReg, continued with the Donalson law suit and the BIA's EA and EIS requirements and has ended with the new CFRs. The Osage Nation government officials will try and convince you that it's the fault of the Minerals Council in order to try and put in effect a hostile takeover of the Mineral Estate and the Minerals Agency but it's just not true. Remember it's been five of the eight Minerals Council members in the 2nd and 3rd Council who have tried to warn all of us and to stave off these bad things that have happened. Read the truth here about the Nymex rate and much more >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/yanman/
“We do believe the rules balance the various interests of producers and service owners, and it does ensure the Osage mineral estate will be developed for the benefit of the Osage,” Osage what? The Osage Nation? The Osage Headright owners? http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/bureau-of-indian-affairs-department-of-interior-release-final-rules/article_c2b8fb81-b3bb-5a14-8f97-068e372f4672.html
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I happen to disagree. A 100,000 people have lost their jobs across the country due to the shale game OPEC is playing...The Chief caanot takeover the M.E if thats the case it would have happened years ago. But I would be willing to lisren to what his thoughts are In regards to moving and creating a viable M.E.
I have listened and read and on an on. The Nation can't take over anything successfully if that's what they think they can handle. They can't even get things figured out with the Osage LLc and 19 million dollars lost and counting. If you think the Osage government is the solution, you're more far gone than you realize.
It never pays to not listen to a suggestion obviously the Choice would be up to the SHAREHOLDER'S. geez, No harm and no foul..right, just common sense...we are in this boat together and others are and will have suggestions.And truly we need innovative thinking...I know where the power lies and will forevermore the 1906 act and the Shareholder's but lets not forget each and every Shareholder has a part. Man people dont get your undies in a wad..in short...this is why we are in the boat we find ourselves. no communication.
Shareholders? What voice do we have except through the Mineral Council? If they are taken over by the Nation as is suggested by the article that recently appeared in the Osage News and are denuded of any power by the new BIA CFRs, how much voice do you think the Shareholders will have after July 10, 2015? How much voice do you think the Minerals Council will have unless they make some move to stop this situation from going forward? 60% of the oil taken out of the ground is in association with stripper wells that involve the small producers. If they are put out of business by the new BIA CFRs, 60% of your quarterly payment will go away and roughly half of that is down now as a result of the oil price so if payment was $9,000 per quarter, half of that would be $4,500 and 60% of that would be minus $2,700 or $1,800 left per quarterly payment. If this takes place, we have payment yearly going from $36,000 per Headright down to $7,200; $10,800 of which will no longer be available if the small oil producers are driven out of business in Osage County due to the BIA's new CFRs. Not exactly the way any entity under a fiduciary obligation to another party should be acting where the best interest of that party is concerned. Right? If the Osage Nation should try and blame the members of the Minerals Council for this debacle, who, in particular should they blame? The ones who sat on the NegReg Committee? Sonny Abbott, Galen Crum and Andrew Yates? Certainly not the other five members who have stood to support the oil producers who earn the income generated upon which the royalty is paid that is distributed in the headright checks. Yes? If the Nation should decide to try and take advantage of the situation to "go in now" to make a move on the Mineral Council and the Mineral Estate while headright payments are low and people, "won't care so much," don't you think that all of the members of the Osage Congress and the Chief should be e-mailed in support of the Minerals Council and in particular, those members of the Minerals Council who have supported the income earners, that is the oil producers? Wouldn't it also be a good idea to tell the elected officials to stay out of Minerals business and to recommend to those Osage Nation elected officials you e-mail, the suggestion that they continue to try and keep from failing with the other businesses or business entities that they have been struggling to manage and maintain since 2006?
What's so strange is that all these headright owners act like they don't even realize that their income is being taken away from them right before their eyes. Get off your backsides and do something about this before there is nothing left in your quarterly checks. Neither the BIA or the Osage Nation is your friend so act accordingly. You would do something if someone stepped up to steal your wallet or your purse, wouldn't you? Call the members of the mineral council who still have your best interest at heart and find out what to do about this before its too late. Today.
Watch out Osages!!! Standing Brar has been talking about the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934 for many years!!! http://www.indianz.com/News/2015/017430.asp
Of course you aren't. What happens to your membership in the Osage Nation if only a "community of half-bloods" come to be the only Osages recognized by the Federal government as members of the Osage Nation?
Shoot its probably less than that, but the facts as they are as decades go by the blood line get s thinner. Tell me something that has teeth to it this us old news
Keep an eye on these guys >>>>>>> https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/news-events/events/ones-llc-board-meeting-1#zoom=9&lat=36.4257&lon=-96.66046&layers=T0B00
Osage Shareholders Association Meeting will be Sunday, May 17 at dave Landrum Hall Pawhuska..Pot Luck we furnish meat and drinks..program is "What is Going On?"
Good for Chief StandingBear and Congresswoman Shannon Edwards! New Medicare health benefit services for Osage elders video presentation at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5IHW6uXC1o
Hope somebody could give me an answer why the oil posting for may 12/2015 show 56.00 when in fact oil closed at 60.90? That's 4.90 amount but its always been around 3.50 for different in what we get
Nymex price was $60.75 not $60.90 on 5/12/15, first of all. The Sunoco price on that day was $57.00 which is probably closer to what oil sold for in Oklahoma and $56.00 was the Highest Posted Price. The Nymex rate won't be effective as a benchmark for Osage royalty payments to be paid on until the new CFRs are in effect on July 10, 2015. http://newsok.com/oil-and-gas-livestock-prices-for-may-13/article/5418471
Tks mister anonymous for ur information.cnn money market shows different prices then what u posted for the an that!!! may 12 60.90 may 13 60.75 may 14 59.88.But the question was usually there only about 3.50 difference.question was why almost $5.00 difference on the date of may 12.
Until July 10, NYMEX really has nothing to do with the Highest Posted Price we receive for royalty oil. It is only a indicator of the pricing trend that day. The daily HPP is taken from the prices posted by the purchasers of 95% of the Osage oil on any given day. Then the daily HPP is averaged for the month, and that's what we get for each barrel of our royalty oil that month. After July 10, we are supposed to be paid the closing NYMEX amount each day for each barrel, according to the new CFR's. I don't know if that will be averaged for the month or not, but probably. That would make the accounting much simpler.--------------Incidently, the amount we get for our royalty bbls has nothing to do with what the Producers receive for their bbls. They negotiate their own prices with the purchasers on an individual basis and they might be receiving more or less than NYMEX. Many of them have allegedly already been receiving much more than NYMEX for their oil for many years. Hope this helps with your question TDTNB.
No producer gets NYMEX. Chaparral use to but when Coffeyville shut down their pipeline, their oil is now trucked along with all other operators in the County. Transportation is deducted from the proceeds. Thus ALL producers get much less than NYMEX. Usually around $3/barrel. If you don't believe me, call Coffeyville. Ray, your ignorance on some issues is astounding.
Did I forget to say ALLEGEDLY---? Maybe you had better read that post again. That was one of the core issues that was proven at the neg-reg meetings. The result was, now the Osages get their royalty based on NYMEX. So did many Producers receive NYMEX or above at that time. Did you miss the boat? Way to go neg reg committee. I'm liking these new CFR's more and more.
My comments about your ignorance still stand. If the producers are going to have to pay royalty on a price they don' t receive, how long do you think some will stay in business? Imagine if you sold a share of stock for $20 and your neighbor sold his for $23. The IRS now says you have to pay your tax based on the $23 sale price even though you only received $20. You would scream bloody murder and if that continued, you may have to sell assets to pay you tax liability. NYMEX was proved to be unworkable in the Denver NEGREG meetings that started 5 months before the Osage meetings. They determined transportation has to be accounted for in the final price. Some of the same committee members from Denver were on the Osage committee. That tells me that they had nothing but contempt for the Osage tribe and did not care about the consequences!
It’s been 10 years since the last royalty increase, and that last increase doesn’t affect those already grandfathered in at 12 ½% thru 18%. It only affects new leases, but then you already know that. 20% of that $3.00 per bbl you so aptly calculated is $.60. ---- 12 ½% of the $3.00 is $0.37 1/2. That is a 1% and .63% increase respectively. You will surely survive that somehow. Inflation was 127% over the last 20 years and is projected to increase by 78% over the next 20 years. NYMEX might have not been workable in Denver, but I think we are about to see it work very well in Pawhuska. If you will recall, at the first neg reg meetings, they were talking about NYMEX-PLUS. Maybe they took the PLUS off to compensate for the transportation expense. I just don’t see the contempt for the Osages you speak of, nor do I see any lack of care for the consequences. These CFR’s had not been updated substantially for over 20 years. I guess that could be construed as “contempt for the Osages.” But, that is behind us. I hope in the future, they can be reviewed more often and kept up to date. It would make it easier on everyone.
I think it's a little more involved than that, Ray. Oversimplification does not work in your favor. Run the numbers: $56 a barrel HPP price. 7 barrels a day for a stripper well x 365 days. $24 net a barrel at HPP price. $3.00 x 20% additional per barrel for the Nymex rate x 7 x 365 = $1,533. $500 ($5,000 bond per well capped at 25 wells on 160 acres). Per well, $500. $10,000 per well for the EA. Yearly net at HPP price per well at this rate of production: $61,320. Yearly net with Nymex benchmark, EA/ EIS and new CFRs at this rate of production: $49,287. Loss of 19.6% net overall on the first 25 wells on 160 acres at this rate of production. $1,533 a year, at the least, seems like an unfair business practice. If the Osages are being duped by the BIA in retribution for the $388 million HPP lawsuit, as you suggest, and are attempting with overweening regulations, to run our Mineral Estate business into the ground, perhaps someone should place this situation before the FTC or whatever government entity acts with oversight responsibility on the activities of the BIA, DOI and at a distance the BLM. U.S. Congressional Committees have held hearings for much less than this and they have the plenary power over Native American Tribes, not the U.S. Executive Branch or any Executive Branch department, agency or bureau.
If you really plan to spend $10,000 per year on a well for a EA, you really should find another business. This simplified EA that has been worked out will cost the average Producer far less than 10K (more like $1500), and even that is a one-time expense, which cannot be included as an annual expense. If the other expense items you project are as disingenuous as this, your accounting creditability just went down the tubes. Please stop the smoke and mirrors. It won’t work! As for my ignorance, you’ll just have to excuse that. I suggest you hire a good oil & gas accountant if you really believe the numbers you espouse.
Using your figure of $1,500 as opposed to $10,000, that's still a loss of 5.7% to the net overall on the first 25 wells in the first year. First year net with Nymex benchmark, EA and new CFRs at this rate (7 barrels a day) of production: $57,787. Multiplying the first year cost of $3,533 by 25 wells is $88,325 that didn't have to be paid out before the Osage NegReg Committee got going with these new CFRs and the EAs required. The regulations seem to change with this EA situation on a daily basis, so how do you know what more will be required over time in hard cost per well? Numbers aside, the contempt shown here on this Blog toward the oil producers side of the things is as much on your part as it is with the BIA. If nothing more, putting these numbers together today has brought this out in the open and shown a light on it that is quite clear. To get income in your quarterly headright check, what do you have to do or to contribute in order to get that income?
You keep talking about 25 wells but you don’t multiply the production sold by 25. That’s $1,444,675.00. All you want to talk about is the expense of $88,325.00 for 25 wells. That looks like a decent 39% ROI to me. I intend no contempt toward the Producers, and have never said anything contemptuous. That is more of your smoke screen. I do disagree with you as an individual tho, and I find your remark about what I do to earn my headright income to be quite disrespectful, to me, and to all other Shareholders. We own these minerals and we have the BIA to manage our business interest therein. We, through the BIA, will set our prices and our regulations in the fairest manner possible, but we don’t intend to be taken advantage of. When you think about it, it’s the best deal going for the Producers. Unlike North Dakota, we don’t have 30 degrees below zero weather and our oil brings about $10 more per bbl. Unlike central Oklahoma we have no earth quakes and no restrictions on salt water disposal. Unlike California, have plenty of water to drill with, and unlike Texas and other places, we aren’t asking for 25% royalties. I really don’t know what you have to complain about.
There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about how to calculate the effect of using NYMEX monthly average price for our benchmark royalty valuation as opposed to HPP. Here are some actual prices and royalty comparisons during the last year. In January 2014 the average HPP price per barrel was $91.37. The NYMEX average was $94.86, or a difference of $3.49. In order to determine the royalty difference between the two indexes you first have figure the royalty for each one. I’ll use the maximum 20% royalty rate so as to be illustrating the maximum possible royalty difference for this situation. 20% of the NYMEX price $94.86 (.20X 94.86) is $18.97 royalty. The same calculation with the HPP price of $91.37 results in $18.37, for a difference of 70 cents more royalty per barrel when using the NYMEX index for Osage share. As I stated before, this is the maximum per barrel royalty increase that would have been possible had NYMEX been in force then. Most of our producers receive more than HPP price and very few of those that don’t, aren’t paying the maximum 20% (or 1/5th ) royalty, most are only paying either 1/6th or even 1/8th royalty. The average oil price actually received by our producers during this same month was $93.46, or $2.09 per barrel above the HPP average price. Using the same 20% royalty calculations as above, the royalty on the average received price was $18.69, or $.28 below the $18.97 NYMEX royalty figure. So the using example of the small producer making only 7 barrels a day that the poster above references would owe the Osages $4.90 (.70 X 7 barrels) more royalty per day using the NYMEX benchmark as opposed to HPP. Or about the price of a McDonalds sandwich. Remember, this is the maximum difference possible, if he pays a lower royalty rate his increase will be less. If the same guy is selling oil at the average paid price he would pay $1.96 (.28 X 7 barrels) more per day using NYMEX at the maximum 20% royalty. I recently completed the same analyses of the price differences in all the months between January 2014 and March 2015 and the results were nearly identical through out. The average royalty difference between NYMEX and HPP was 70 cents per barrel and the difference between NYMEX and actual average price paid was 31 cents per barrel.
This same poster referenced above was also making some wildly inaccurate claims about the added cost of EA’s needed for permits. Now that the programmatic EA’s have been completed by the BIA for leasing and workovers, there should be virtually no added costs for these. There is no EA work to be done by the producer for a lease and merely the taking of 7 site pictures to be included in the permit application for a workover. There is now also an EA template for drilling permits that is available online or from the BIA, which a producer can copy and fill in any site specific information that might not be covered in the template. If a producer doesn’t want to do this, the BIA will do it for him free of charge using this same template, but of course it will likely take a little more time to process the permit. When the new EIS is completed at the end of this year, the drilling permits can be handled pretty much like the workover permits, site specific info and pictures.
Thank you Galen for your analysis of this situation. Judging from some of the other web sites I've seen since last Monday, the temperature is running fairly high on these issues and I appreciate you putting this information up here for the Shareholders to read and digest.
let's be glad that Starbucks doesn't sell their coffee by the barrel. How many cups of that $3.50 coffee would it take to make up a 42 gallon barrel? The royalty would be $100. Gasoline could be $500 per gallon. That would make nymex look good.
As a follow-up to my post above it should be pointed out that an EA (environmental assessment) or and EIS (environmental impact study) are just documentation vehicles that show that potential environmental problems have been studied and dealt with. Just like as has always been the case we still have to comply with the various federal laws like the Endangered Species Act, or the ones governing clean air and water etc. The EA or EIS merely documents that they have been considered and what steps were taken to be in compliance. By doing programmatic assessments (entire County) each permit doesn’t have to be dealt with as a stand alone assessment but rather as an action that has already been studied and compliance needs identified and addressed. So there will still need to be Archeological studies, proper site construction to ensure water and air protection ect. Just like what has always been the case.
Also, when considering the impact of an added seventy cents per barrel maximum average royalty increase from 20% of HPP to 20% of monthly NYMEX any reference to the yearly increase of royalty cost to the producer should also be examined in the context of yearly income produced by the lease. The hypothetical 7 barrels a day lease paying 20% royalty and selling oil and paying royalty at the bottom of the market HPP price grosses $626.57 dollars a day or $228,698 dollars a year, using the average HPP price paid during 2014. Even after subtracting the highest possible 20% Osage royalty from the gross, it still leaves $182,958.44 of yearly net after royalty paid.
It's not smoke and mirrors. No one should have to pay a royalty on a higher price than they were paid for the product. This is nuts and could land all of us including the BIA and the DOI in a hell of a lot of trouble. I don't care if we lose a little in the benchmark pricing. Oil field work is dirty difficult and dangerous and I'm grateful for my check every quarter without you Osage government people inciting the oil and gas producers to sue, strike or riot plus have other government agencies all over us. You never once asked us what we think is fair and right in the pricing of this new futures benchmark. One of these days maybe you'll start representing the majority Osage headright owner interest and not Sonny Abbots or yours or whoever else in the Osage government. Look at the price of the June quarterly payment and don't tell me it has all to do with the lower price of oil because I don't believe you. I still think if you'd left well enough alone when you negotiated that HPP settlement that we had no say in whatever, that Drummond lawyer would never have had the opportunity to go nosing around to find that EPA regulation in the first place. You've made some very serious mistakes in all this and we have to pay for them as a result. The oil producers don't have a community to hand out checks to the young ones going to college. Some of these kids are hundreds of thousand of dollars in debt before their lives as adults have even begun. It's no wonder the suicide rate among them is so high. That's only one thing they have to pay for that we don't and the list is long. Taxpayer dollars is what pays for the $15 to $20 million in Federal government money we get and we can't live with them having a rate a bit below what they get paid per barrel of oil? I think they should complain and raise unholy hell. We should remember ourselves and how much they do for us and display some gratitude and humility. You're not the only ones involved and I say, put it to a vote of the Osage headright owners before you continue on this path that provokes rancor and bitterness in the only people who are doing the work which generates the income we receive in every quarterly payment.
I apologize, my yearly HPP income valuation comments above should have included the fact that I had computed the average 2014 HPP price as being $89.51 per barrel. That is the figure I used for the rest of the computations. Oil price wise, 2014 was an interesting year. The monthly average HPP price ranged from a high $101.69 to a low of $44.50. Of course we can do without that kind of "interesting".
The Minerals Council Meeting is to begin in a few minutes. The Agenda is located at https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/news-events/events/minerals-council-meeting-agenda-may-15 The Live Media web page is located at https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/multimedia/live-media
The idea is to partner with the smaller lessees to keep them from going out of business. We put up the money and they continue to do business? Has spoken with Mr. Lyon of the Osage Oil Producers Association about this idea to extend a hand.
Mr. Shannon proposed in his presentation for Two Angels, the above idea. Deferred to next Wednesday's MC Meeting. Assign their lease over to this new LLC of Two Angels? I was under the impression that the leases were not able to be assigned.
Training will take place on the new CFRs called outreach training for the oil and gas producers. This was discussed during the BIA Osage Superintendent's time before the Council Meeting.
I have to wonder which lease owners will be eager to assign their leases to another entity, for nothing but a promise, whereby this "other entity" will then own 51% of their 'former' lease??
ONES, LLC presentation. Strategic planning is their task and to put in place their own business model since formed in 2012. Holding company for subsidiaries. Blah blah... to seek funding for pipline and opportunities in oil and gas with getting leases at the end of the year. Move forward with stakeholders. (Who are the stakeholders?) Developing funding to move ahead. Met with Red Cedar at Ignatio, Colorado and met with the Jicarilla Apache and their successful tribal energy companies. Have a good relationship with BIA and BLM. They have their own regulatory and compliance divisions with people employed within their Tribal communities. (Red Flag Here!)
Silly. Don't you know that all these Osage boards and commissions have to go first class all the way? That's why the budgets for them are millions and millions and millions of dollars of the Osage Peoples money which the Osage Congress appropriates for them and appoints, every chance they get. Have they ever asked whether so many people are needed and so much money needed to be spent?
OOPS! Robin Phillips comment: Orphan wells have a $5,000 bond per well and a new lease and a Performance EA required by the new CFRs...you're dead in the water before you get out of the gate. Yes Talee its been done before and it FAILED. Osage 1 Osage 1 Osage 1
Nah the direction of partnership I say heck no...how is this going to benefit? And mostly how is this going to benefit the M.E? Reality is let the ball bounce with the smaller producers would they be there for us if we were in the same boat, hell no...and I was under the impression as well that these leases were not able to assign a lease over as well...Two Angles can pound sand and the Osage LLC stay out of our business. ..The Osage Nation cannot be trusted to do what is right for their own People...this is not the big ticket. .Ones get you hand out of our Business...
Thank you, for the kindest to the one or one's who put the flowers in the attached vases above our Mother and Grandmothers Pawhuska Cemetery graves, on that hillside overlooking the new parking lot on the Agency Hill. At one time I believe American Indians, and possible interment local customs burial was facing the setting Sun. While others lookout over the now parking lot for the raising Sun. Further up the hill you may catch a glimpse of the curve at the end of the New Tribal buildings roof line , a upward flare somewhat like the old Cadillac tail fins. I'll refer to this as the Cadillac Building, looks good to me, On the way up, noticed the Choctaw's doing a major expansion at Durant facilities. Next stop Click's Steakhouse, Pawnee Ok. had to wait in line 30 minutes for one of those aged 21 days choice cut steaks, no need for any steak sauce, believe O'Click's left all of the right combinations to his surviving restaurateur's. The Cliff Swallows did an aerial ballet from their mud dauber nests which were attached to the cross bridges or trestles. Then we were in Fairfax. H
https://www.facebook.com/OsageNews
ReplyDeleteThere is information about Native American Charter Schools that is on the Chief's agenda. Will white children be able to attend as well? Some of the Indian schools in operation today are boarding schools as the prevailing theory is that the child has to be removed from any negative influences in the home in order to succeed in life. How is this any different than the Haskell Indian School theory of the same or similar idealogy?
Wonderful! Wonderful! Wonderful! For the Elders:
ReplyDeletehttp://osagenews.org/en/article/2015/04/29/osage-elders-receive-supplemental-medicare-coverage-nation/
If you're over 65 and a member of the Osage Nation, call to register. It takes about 15 minutes over the phone. Thank you, Chief StandingBear, Assistant Chief Redcorn and each and every member of the Osage Nation Congress. This is marvelous and I am so grateful to you for providing this additional financial help to me every month. Bless you!
DeleteGalen Crum has an explanation for the EA mess on Ray McClain's blog. He states that the programmatic workover EA has been issued and soon everything will get back to normal. Wrong! The programmatic EA requires an ABB (American Burying Beetle) permit for many actions. This is a deal killer because these permits can only be acquired 3 months out of the year. Yeah, you heard that right. Moreover, Galen states that the production has held steady during all of the BIA mess. If you back out the bump in production from the Burbank CO2 project, production is off 2000 barrels per day. Things are far from returning to normal. Capital is fleeing the County thanks to the BIA. The Shareholders should sue the BIA again for the illegal "taking" of Osage Mineral resources.
Deletehttp://osagenews.org/en/article/2015/05/01/standing-bear-plans-change-game-oil-production-osage-county/...My opinion on this Matter, Chief as designed the Osage Constitution says we are a seperate Agency..keep that in mind..Second before any change will come it will come with the discretion of the Shareholder's consent....Thirdly,....The M.C..will communicate to the Shareholder's in a format of a Mailer putting a vote to the Shareholder's the Pro's and Con's stating all facts, clearly represented by and by a lawyer and not just any Lawyer not someone you know or I know, HIRE A LAWYER WITH extensive knowledge in the gas and oil industry. Tired of this well we could have handled things better attitude will no longer be suffice. Oh and Boone funny how you can point the finger but your apart of the Problem, so when you talk its not taken with a grain of salt..it's hypocritical. When you speak the way you do you come across as not as a team player...just sayin it like it is...lastly wasn't like 8 or 9 years ago on the Osage Shareholder's blog we talked about this extensively that this very situation was trending in the Nation trying to take over the M.E? My opinion is something positive has to change and I always said there needs to be a full fledging petroleum office under our Control, the M.C Control...the Shareholder's Chief need to be comprised and not just printed in the News before you announce any decision and once again no input from our MIA Speaker. I want him replaced A.S.A.P
DeleteBringing in Big Union for the Shareholder's as we speak if we can't get the Representation and support by our M.C and will have them file an injunction if the Shareholder's base is not notified by the Chief and or M.C and their Opinion.
DeleteIt would be better to build the infrastructure from with in to cut down on the redundancies.
DeleteGalen Crum, your Opinion on this Matter would be greatly appreciated and if you could respond to the earlier post above thank you, a much appreciated shareholder for your dedication.
DeleteCynthia isn't a team player, thank God! She knows that the mess that has been made of the Osage Nation and how they handle themselves financially, which is ABYSMAL in every sense of the word, will soon be the case with what is now left of the ME. You can't blame her for the new CFRs and all the mess that it has caused because the team players wouldn't let her within a country mile of those NegRegs. You need to know whose on your side and who isn't in this power grab that will only destroy what is left of what the Osage Nation isn't responsible for decimating already and don't think that Super Board of Kugee's isn't going to play a part along with the ONES, LLC to try and govern the Minerals Council from the Osage Nation side by pounding down on them because if you do, you can think again. You will see signs of what will happen soon with the Chief's son running the gaming entity. I give that another six months to a year before it begins to show all of us what happens when less than competent people are at the helm.
DeleteI thought the Southern Utes and the Jicarilla Apaches used to come to us to find out how it's done. Now we are going to them? Just another expensive road trip on our nickel you ask me
DeleteRight. To you both, no I'm on the right playing field and I am on the Shareholder's side..I am 1 to be able to read between the lines and what is propaganda and what is political and what is right for the shareholders I know and you know this Estate was used to build a Nation of lies and we can go in any direction depending on the voice of our Mineral Council will do and then only we can as a Shareholder know our Next Move...I have a feeling that the New Llc will be used as a slush fund..and we still need to know how 19 million was lost by the old Llc. Government is never the solution especially one so aligned with the U.S Constitution .
DeleteI thought it was called a Performance EA.
Deletehttp://www.bia.gov/cs/groups/xregeasternok/documents/text/idc1-029898.pdf
When are these screwups, Yates, Galen, Abbott and Waller, going to stop trying to justify what they are doing and realize that are only working on further ruin of our ME whether they know it or not? The Osage Nation government can't pour water out of a boot. They can't even account for and budget properly the money they get from gaming and other sources of income. This is insanity at the highest level imaginable. And they have the audacity to make a move on the Mineral Estate?
DeleteLetters sent to MC from BIA. Ray McClain posted copies on his web site.
http://www.osages-you-need-to-know.com/
You should answer for this mess here Ray because you want the Osage Nation to run the mineral estate and you better tell the truth here and now and what's this I'm hearing about the Minerals Estate and Business plan to be run by the Nation formed and fronted by Chief Standing Bear's father-in-law, George Shannon? Ask Ray at if he won't bells up and answer these questions here RayMcClain@osages-you-need-to-know.com
I know the Mess to...ding ding ding, ...My experience with the real world with standards, and ethics and so forth..teach and tell me theres another story to unfold, but thats for another day..avail yourself to the truth and the truth will set you free...its not that she isn't trying, she is self serving and as Shareholder's its to personal. And it does not appear she has a real base for support by her colleagues either..you can Know alot about something and not really understand it. She falls into this category. To aggressive. ..I have had much better success and my CSI scores would prove you wrong...not that I am trying to that? There is no doubt our M.C is upside down...a decade later still at square one...not good..oh change needs to come and now this is Political by all Standards the Chief set the Pace and all Arrows will be pointing.
DeleteI wonder why the Executive and the MC aren't communicating as Chief Standing Bear stated in the Osage News interview? How does this situation help the shareholders? Why isn't even one member of the MC going with the Chief to investigate the Utes and the Apaches efforts at COMPACTING? Putting the BIA in a support roll means COMPACTING. Will this COMPACTING result in the shareholders and our MC assuming full responsibility for the Donelson law suit? We've already dropped a couple of hundred thousand dollars on lawyers just to monitor the activities. Total cost could easily go into the millions if it goes to the Supreme Court. NO TO COMPACTING!!
DeleteChief change needs to come and as I have been a voice for Marketing all a long and have been asking for forarwd thinking and I must commend you for taking the initiative but it does not start with Maria Whitehorn or whoever, it starts with The M.C and as a leader it would behoove you to create a dialogue with the M.C.
DeleteThe MC Chairman should report to the Chief, not the other way around. That's just simple respect.
DeleteTomatoes, tomato..all the same...respect is when you have a suggestion you approach the right people first..how about that. Respect is eearned no matter who you are...what world do you live in...?
DeleteThis isn't a monarchical form of government. It's a democracy and we have a distinct separation between the Osage Nation government and the independant Minerals Agency as so called out and specified in the Osage Nation Constitution. This Agency does not report to the Chief and if they did they wouldn't be independant. If they did report to the Chief, they would be in violation of the passage as so stated in the Osage Constitution.
DeleteThis MC can sit on their thumbs and be independent all they want, but I don't think this Chief will put up with much more of it. This trip to visit with the Utes and Apaches is where this Chief starts. If the MC doesn't start getting something done very soon, the Chief just might do something even more drastic. The Chairman's one year term is almost up. Step down Waller, before you get taken down.
DeleteWaller I was the fisrt to request you be replaced and people are listening...like Shareholder's. ..this is just the beginning of cleaning house..so evident what needs to be done and the lifers as well....we need a turn a bout and the Shareholder's will is strong. ..
DeleteAs I said there is the Osage Constitution and as I said the Chief should consult with the M.C his desire not to Over step his Boundary or his Authority.
DeleteWhats behind getting Waller to step down? Who do you want to replace him? I feel theres more to this power struggle than just Waller! Always some people wanting to divid and cause trouble among the MC. Im a shareholder and have no trouble with him. But this chief is stepping where he does not want to go. He told us at the OSA meeting one time, the 1906 act no longer is looked at by the BIA and doesn't matter, in so many words. There were many there that remember this. I see a big red flag going up about all this.
DeleteDo you remember the meeting when a producer wanted to speak about a letter sent to MC inviting them to go to D.C. with the producers and Chief to talk about this crisis and Waller would not let him talk. The Chief has invited the MC to go with him and they refused. Waller is probably just mad because he no longer works for the Chief .
Deletethere u go twisting the truth. Waller was elected into the MC. And the issues wasn't what was for the shareholders.
DeleteWhat I want to know is if the Chief compacts the BIA which is clearly in the offing, will this "bust the trust," that is, the current Mineral Estate Headright owners Federally managed and administrated Trust from which we draw our checks? I take it that all of you understand the implications and what is at stake here.
ReplyDeletePublic Law 108-431 recognizes the inherent sovereign rights of the Osage Tribe to determine its own form of government, and its own membership, provided that the rights of any person to Osage mineral estate shares are not diminished thereby.
DeleteThe act does not grant that government (the Osage Nation) any rights whatsoever in the mineral estate. If the Osage Nation uses funds from the mineral estate revenues in a manner which diminishes shareholder interest (i.e., income, either through misuse or mismanagement) then it would be acting in violation of Federal law. The right to the income from the mineral estate is reserved to the shareholders.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-108publ431/pdf/PLAW-108publ431.pdf
Scare tactics.
DeleteThis chief knows something we don't or he wouldn't be taking these steps.
DeleteScare tactics? It certainly got your attention. I think it's a legitimate, timely and important question and one that needs to be put directly to the Chief and the Minerals Council as soon as possible.
DeleteGetting down to serious business and rather than the Chief assaulting the Headright owners with sensational articles and the Mineral Council being mum about what's up ahead next with everybody elected treating us like rats trapped in a basement ready to be whomped on at any minute, what are the personal tax income implications of going in this direction? Mineral Trust income is non-taxable at the Federal and State level for Osages. If the Nation takes over and the trust is busted as you so aptly put it, will whatever income if any coming to the Headright owners quarterly, be subject to regular income tax at the State and Federal level? This is something I doubt anyone has even thought about never mind plan ahead for in the event the Nation does take over. Let's run an example. Say an Osage has a personal income of $30,000 a year and has a full headright of share at approximately $36,000 a year that at this time is not taxable. If the Nation takes over the income will more than double and the tax liability will be much more substantial. In addition, this level of income may disqualify a number of Osages from being able to participate in Federal programs because the income level is too high. So it becomes a lose-lose situation with 25% to 30% taken out at the State and Federal level plus whatever services have been provided for by Federal programs may no longer be available to Osages who have their yearly cash from income amount diminished in this way.
DeleteWow. Hadn't thoght aobut that. Lot of money in Federal programs wont be there if not used.
DeleteTell 'em what you think>>>>>>>>>
Deletehttps://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/news-events/news/office-chiefs-soliciting-feedback
Like I said the redundancies need to be cut out will create more redundancy and create more and efficiencies by compacting...but this has gone to far..you bet..but this time all eyes a d ears are watching.
DeleteHere's where your Headright check quarterly income amounts are going to go if the Osage Nation takes over which is exactly where the money goes with gaming and other income that comes into the Osage Nation for 2015:
DeleteBudget for ONCA 15-13: $21,480,856 of which, Salaries, Wages and Employee Benefits equal $12,968,794 or 60.3% of the entire budget.
Budget for ONCA 15-20: $2,938,702 of which, Salaries, Wages and Employee Benefits equal $1,629,109 or 55.4% of the entire budget.
Budget for ONCA 15-02: $7,204,398 of which, Salaries, Wages and Employee Benefits equal $4,339,833 or 60.2% of the entire budget.
Budget for ONCA 15-14: $3,808,557 of which, Salaries, Wages and Employee Benefits equal $2,414,906 or 63.4% of the entire budget.
See more here https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/congress-legislative-branch/legislation
So, if $80,250,000 is disbursed to the Headright owners in a given year, after the Division of Minerals is created and the Board and the Commission and all the employees and office expense and indirect cost and travel and rental expense and legal fees and on and on forever, roughly 60% of your income will come right off the top for salaries, wages and employee benefits. Don't forget the personal service contracts and licensing and leasing and investigations and compliance and whatever else you can think of too. This is real, people, and don't think this is a joke or an overstatement of what will happen.
Forgot to mention, all the above the BIA does for free. If they're out of the picture, all that cost has to be paid for with your Headright income. DON'T LET THE CHIEF GO THERE.
DeleteBTW, the only efficiencies by compacting there would be will be paid for with your Headright income. How does that sound to you?
DeleteLol thank you for taking the time to spell this out I could not agree more..building our infrastructure from with in the more wiser...Move..or the choice willcome where we will have to step in and elect a New M.C. NotIce no question mark.
DeleteThe flip side of the coin:
Deletehttps://www.hcn.org/issues/42.12/the-ute-paradox/print_view
They get member financial support from what the Ute Tribe does because they spend the money to grow their businesses, not on paying $20-30 million in government salaries and benefits a year to everyone they are related to or who they know that vote in the elections.
From 3,100 Southern Ute members down to 1,375. 55% of the membership gone overnight? What happened? Is the Chief looking into how they did that?
Deletehttp://www.deseretnews.com/article/650192878/Utes-thriving-after-nearly-going-broke.html?pg=all
The thing is that there is no one who will work with these government Osages because they are so unethical, vindictive, greedy and jealous of everyone including one another and these qualities make it impossible for them to be trusted in the business world. Ask anyone who has tried to help them. No one of any quality or calibre will come anywhere near. Look how they dealt with the oil producers when it looked like they could get a better market price on leases that had already been negotiated. It was ugly and that Abbott fellow on the Mineral Council lead the charge with Yates and Crum right behind. Gaming's the same thing. They're dead in the water and don't know it. The best they've got is the BIA and the BIA would trash them if they could get away with it and probably will before too much longer. They're like a kid who wants to break out of kindergarden but has no idea how to get back home once he's gotten out. Look at the way they've treated the Headright annuitants since 2006 and what they're trying to do to them now. Even the way they treat the Mineral Council is the way they treat everyone that gets in their way. It's over and they would do well not to burn any more bridges than they have already.
DeleteI can see the forest for the trees..I am in work progress for tbe Shareholder's as we speak...by all definitions I have the angle for succes. But I never devulge development until proper parties are notified.
DeleteOr even better yet a good dose of cross-over fertilization just might need to happen.
DeleteYou don't even mention the membership outside of Osage County or the non-shareholders. Look how they've been treated. Total non-entities other than at election time.
DeleteI think they've been cross-fertilized enough. He-he!
DeleteLol..do you even know what that means or how the connotation was meant ?
DeleteI have a purty good idea.
DeleteWhat's important to understand is that the Osage Nation will be enriched with this new plan going forward. The Osage Headright share owners will not. The focus of the decision makers in the Federal government back a hundred years or so ago who had the wisdom to see that if the Osage Tribe were to benefit, was that it would break down into factions as to who would benefit from the income and as a result they made sure in the 1906 Allotment Act that the money from the oil royalty income would be distributed directly to the Tribal members in a pro-rata share by the Trust created at that time. What it's beginning to look like now with this new plan is that the Nation will be in charge of collecting the royalty income and the distribution of it. Some Osages in our local area are being enticed by the thinking that the pot will be bigger for the current Osage shareholders if the BIA is out of the picture altogether when the non-Osages and other entities no longer have have a piece of the pie but the hard cost to run things will be through the roof before its over and whatever income will be absorbed into the Nation's expenses and whatever they come up with to run things. I'm hearing that everyone is scrambling right now to put together a compacting agreement to present to the BIA. Remember that the enticement for the Osage Constitution was that everyone would be treated fairly and it would be a good thing because everyone would benefit and have benefits coming in to them no matter who they were or where they lived. It hasn't exactly worked out that way now has it? It won't work out that way for the Osage Headright owners especially those who live away either. Any group of government officials that would throw the entire former Osage Tribal membership out on their ear by law is not a good group to trust or believe in. Remember this fact going forward.
DeleteWhy the hell doesn't Galen or Ray McClain respond to any of these comments on this blog? If they don't come forward with some answers right here, I'm going to become suspicious of their intentions myself.
DeleteIf you have any questions call Mr.Crum he'll answer his phone. ..
DeleteNot good enough. He can respond to our concerns here. My question to him is, are you putting together a plan to compact the Mineral Estate either with the Chief and the Osage Nation or with the other members of the Mineral Council? Yes or no, Galen? It's a simple question.
DeleteAnd this is ok to point out the facts and all, and to assure this wont and will not happen..lets put it this way the Chief continues to push the right buttons this could only go one way....or no other way and I'm being so vague as to...just wait and see..the Majority is not the Chief and he knows this and I'm sure he will bring his Ideas to the Table but thats all they are right no harm no foul...But it is ultimately the Shareholder's that will determine the outcome, not the Chief...
DeleteWe are nothing to the Council if we fall on death ear...so is it fair to say they have fallen in thier fiscal responsibility to the Shareholder's Yes..compacting is about taking more of the responsibility is our inherent right. But with Great responsibility great negotiating must take place for the benefit of the Shareholder will not not go unrecognized. ..and this is why I am suspect of the Chief had he gone to the Council first..this is underhanded for all appearances soory Chief .
DeleteThe thing about that article that stands out like a neon sign is no transparency with these S. Utes. You don't know for sure what the balance sheet looks like and for all you know, the banks could be running everything just like with the Pequots who have government officials running their outfit just like ours who couldn't stop spending money until, for them, it was so out of control that they were no longer running things and then the banks took over. Full circle just like this article says http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46883766/ns/us_news-life/t/tribe-billion-debt-after-casino-bonanza/
DeleteThe shareholders staked the tribe to the gaming business and asked for and got nothing back in the way of profits. Compact that all you want to, it was our gift, I guess. But leave the Minerals estate and the MC alone. We can work out our problems. No compacting. Compacting is a little like constipating. We don't want that either.
DeleteONES, LLC can achieve success in the same way the Utes did and WITHOUT compacting. If they want to get into drilling, then do like the other producers and purchase leases.
DeleteThe Shareholder's staked the tribe my Arse of a lie. B.S if I heard ever...prove it..it just took one phone call remember? .and no it is a conflict of interest to the Shareholder's if the Nation gets involved period. ..it is bad enough we have two sitting bodies the OSA time to dissolve and get the Council to do what they should be doing ? Essentially we have people getting paid for what, when you have lawyers doing the work for them...
DeleteNa it is time to start paying 75 dollars an hour to sit and conduct a meeting per person , you can't hear anyway. 7200 a year for meeting cost...for 8 M.C members . That sounds about right. This is what happens when you have a body of elected officials that has proven to have no communication to the Shareholder's and no transperency.
DeleteCynthia Boone needs to go! She is part of the problem. I think there should be a term limit for MC members.
DeleteSee New health benefit services for Osage elders at https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/news-events/news/new-health-benefit-services-osage-elders APPLICATION DEADLINE is May 23, 2015!
ReplyDeleteCall: 1-877-722-6973 for more information.
Thank you. Did not know about the deadline. Wish that office would pay out some of that money I sent them slips for. Don't do any good to call I heard.
Deletehttp://www.consumeraffairs.com/insurance/united_am.html
DeleteSeveral people tried to tell you what was coming down the pike more than 2 years ago but no one would listen. Now that it's all about to come to fruition, interest is being stirred? Recall that this new Osage Nation Government isn't legal in the first place because only Shareholders (members of the tribe according to the 1906 Act) had voting rights on the matter of changing or not changing their form of government but non-shareholder OF COURSE voted to change it. (Illegal votes). If this had been taken seriously by the Shareholders in the first place we wouldn't be facing this nonsense today. As some folks tried over 2 (two) years ago to insist that the U.S. Congress intervene because the BIA wouldn't get involved and allowed this illegal "takeover." - there was not enough support from shareholders to get behind the movement at the time . Now perhaps the disinterested are getting interested?
ReplyDeleteThank you! I have been warning people from the time of the OGRC in 2005 by e-mail that not enough was was known about what the Osages on that Commission were actually doing. Not that more than 2 or 3 people showed up to their meetings once a week in the evening while the new Constitution was being framed, mind you. Now this makes me sick because the Chief does have a point because the BIA has this Mineral Estate locked down and the Feds hire on that kayaker to run the BIA who is a no-carbon footprinter from the word go. Then we get this report that the BIA is totally out to lunch from top to bottom and that the Mineral Council's involvement is a hindrance to progress which ultimately means more business opportunity destroying regulations for those who are pulling oil and gas out of the oilfield right now. Instead of clearing those windmills off of the land and acting like a powerful and legally empowered Bureau of the Federal government and let the courts decide the matter later, we have the horrible burden of these wind machines all over the place. Yet, when a private party sues them, they bow and kowtow by throwing up 400 more pages of regulations instead of realizing that the most sacred and important relationship they have is the fiduciary one owed by law to the Osage Nation and the Osage Headright owners. The BIA enables nothing good for the Osages as far as I can see right now and I wish the Court of Federal Claims would reopen the HPP case and slap the Federal government with billions more that was truly owed to us in that lawsuit. On the other hand, to have these government Osages run things would be so dismal it would be like having to live out the original film Night of the Living Dead for real with them coming to sink their teeth into the money in our Headright checks relentlessly day and night and day and night. We're in as tight a spot as it gets and there is no doubt about it despite the legal protections of this apparently fictional fiduciary obligation owed to us by the Federal government. The Osages have proved that they have no business running and oil business with their ruinous attempt at diversifying with that Osage, LLC and soon they will be proving the same with gaming because they are now in charge and full control with the Chief's son as CEO. How are we expected to expect anything other than the worst?
DeleteThe problem is always the same...that game is over...their nneds to be a bigger base.to have a bigger response to what is being said not the few get it
DeleteO' by the wayvI know who is posting above @11 30 am...I know whonyou are..yup. Its called hand rrecognition. You have a certain way about you..and I have been right behind you learning as much as you inspired to. Thank you..By golly if well I now I am armed...and more educated than ever and my eyes are wide open.
DeleteIf there are 700 Osages MIA who shoild be receiving a settlement check fromthe Cobell Settlement where and who are they and or are they ligit names some of them so similar in nature and could these names be tied to the names on the flether list of entities?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/05/06/gao-govt-waste-natural-gas-costing-taxpayers-millions/?intcmp=latestnews...thought this was telling!
ReplyDeleteThats a 40% lost in revenue that is going unregulated! The natural gas. Ah me thinks the BIA has some explaining to do, this report came out in 2010..and we are still at square 1...with this matter...can you imagine your checks increasing by 40 % and what is Our M.C doing to insure fiscal responsibility? We want this handled like yesterday oh another suit can and will be filed buf in the Billons..
DeleteThis has been much worse here in the Osage for 100 years and more, most especially with the gas accounting.. That's what the BIA is trying to correct, among many more things. That is one of the main reasons for the CFR changes. Yet many, including some of our MC, are griping about the CFR changes. It's pretty hard to fix things when everyone, and I mean nearly everyone, is taking pot shots at them every time they turn around. This MC needs to start working with them and asking what they can do to help. A little shareholder support wouldn't hurt either. Threatening to file another lawsuit helps nothing.
DeleteI'm one of the big supporters of righting the wrong, and Shareholders input is a must, we are the drivers, right? No longer in the dark. Yes, it does, another suit does ands says alot, its like shooting a gun without the gun powder. Nah Ive played with lots of money and I know about suits and the intended consequnce, if your losing hands over fistbin money because the person in this case, the Federal Gov. Knows what is happening as we speak, yes we have another suit until they get it right we can dance...you said a 100 years is long enough.
DeleteYou want to see what will undoubtedly happen if that Osage Nation Energy Services, LLC gets a head of wind, paid for with our headright payment money? Read the comments on the Osage, LLC by scrolling to the bottom of this web page right here http://osageblog.blogspot.com/2015/04/conversation-april-2015.html
DeleteAny news on June payment yet?
ReplyDeleteNope. Not till the 15th usually.
DeleteUp against those damn drummonds again
ReplyDeletehttp://www.tulsaworld.com/communities/bartlesville/jenks-bartlesville-men-named-to-oklahoma-water-resources-board/article_7e546d18-4112-5053-bf4c-437e598fe164.html
My question is if the Shareholder's put up the capital to start the gaming operations, why are the Shareholder's not receiving any additional revenue for supply the capital???? This needs to be looked into, because wouldn't the Shareholder's have to vote in order for the nation to use any Mineral Royalties??? Just a thought......
ReplyDeleteThey actually got funded and had used the Estate as collateral. znd ghe DOI needs to look into this
DeleteSo if they used OUR Estate as collateral shouldn't we be entitled to a share of the profits? Am I wrong on this??? Any thoughts???
DeleteYes!
DeleteOnce again this fact was pointed out several years ago. If you read the 1906 Act you'll find that the Reservation belongs to the shareholders not the nation so any income coming from the casino on the Reservation should be paid to the shareholders along with lease income for the land or better yet, surrendered totally to the Shareholders for revenue purposes. In other words, shareholders need to get back what the nation has stolen in broad daylight. (Hostile Takeover) Does that ring any bells?
DeleteQuote this section of the 1906 Allotment Act that says anything of the sort. Some of us have actually read it chapter and verse. A pleasant yarn you spin but that's about it.
DeleteReading is good but comprehension is better. Read it again.
Delete1906 Act - Ninth Provision - Pawhuska, Gray Horse & Hominy Reservations "Reserved"
DeleteNinth Provision: ‘There shall be RESERVED from selection and division, as herein provided, the northeast quarter of section three, township twenty-five, range nine east, of the Indian meridian, and one hundred and sixty acres to conform to the public survey at the town of Gray Horse, including the Government doctor’s building, other valuable buildings and the cemetery, and the one hundred sixty acres to conform to the public survey, adjoining or near the town site of Hominy; said lands or tracts are hereby set aside for the use and benefit of the Osage Indians, exclusively, for dwelling purposes, for a period of twenty-five years from and after the first day of January nineteen hundred and seven: Provided, that said land may, in the discretion of the Osage tribe, be sold under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe; and the proceeds of the same under such sale shall be apportioned and placed to the credit of the individuals members of the tribe according to the roll herein provided for.”
(The roll herein provided for is the original tribal roll NOT THE NATION)
Second Provision – 1906 Act – Pawhuska, Gray Horse & Hominy Reservations “Reserved” – grazing lease income, property sales, oil, gas coal and other minerals.
DeleteSecond: That the royalty received from oil, gas, coal and other mineral leases upon the lands for which selection and division are herein provided, and all moneys received from the sale of town lots, together with the buildings thereon, and all moneys received from the sale of the three reservations of one hundred and sixty acres each heretofore reserved for dwelling purposes, and all moneys received from grazing lands, shall be placed in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of the members of the Osage tribe of Indians as other moneys of said tribe are to be deposited under the provisions of this act, and the same shall be distributed to the individual members of said Osage tribe according to the roll provided for herein, in the manner and at the same time that payments are made of interest on other moneys held in trust for the Osages by the United States, except as herein provided.
(What about the Kansas Land that was left to the shareholders? What about that lease income? Where is it going? What about the headrights that were left to the shareholders (Tribe)? Where is that money? How much is in the secret S-510 account? Why aren’t the shareholders receiving that money quarterly as prescribed by the 1906 Act? – Why isn’t that money being deposited into the trust for the government to disburse quarterly? What is really going on here? – Yes and what about the lease income from the Pawhuska casino as well as the revenue from the casino?)
Sometimes you guys scare me to death. Has it occurred to you that whatever proceeds from land that has been sold as identified in the original 1906 Allotment Act since 1906 has already been distributed to the headright annuitants at the time of the sale per the Act probably long ago? The shareholders don't have an interest in the land associated with the Villages until the land is sold and payment for it is made and whatever is still there and unsold is retained in the Trust as land in Trust by the U.S. government according to the 1906 Act.
DeleteTunnel vision is pretty scary also…Try thinking outside the box…….Did it occur to you that when the 1906 Act refers to Tribe it is referring to shareholders? Did it occur to you that if shareholders (Individual Tribe members) would receive proceeds from the sale in the event the reservations are ever sold pretty much means that the property belongs to the shareholders? Did it occur to you that if the tribe holds title to any land today it would mean shareholders hold it and should receive lease/grazing income from it rather than a new found nation? Rest assured, the 1906 Act wasn’t written for a nation, it was written for a tribe.------Yes past business has been conducted but current business and holdings exist today also.
Delete"use and benefit of the Osage Indians" does not imply ownership. Getting creative outside the box is one thing. Taking liberties with the prevailing legalities of the situation is another and beyond that, what you suggest is utter fiction.
DeleteAnyone else out there agree that we should enact term limits on our MC Members? Part of the problem is the establishment like Cynthia Boone.
ReplyDeleteThats been thought of in addition we need to formulate a criteria and standard that will create sound business ethics this has to be done evidence of lack of competency. The facts as they are. By all definitions we need to put a better council together one that works for the Shareholder's for transperency. ..somone has to beg to ask is why hasn't this happened? Nah its time to get busy or be removed by the very people that elected you this is today...
DeleteFor whom? I want someone in there including Cynthia who is going to fight against so many regulations that the only oil companies who are capable of doing the work in Osage County have no other choice but to up and go away. Why can't you get this? If you run them off, they aren't coming back and probably won't even if they wanted to because they don't want their entire careers upended by the capricious rules, regulations and requirements of the BIA and the DOI.
DeleteMajority rules just because you want does not mean it will happen, we are in a hell of a position to make a decision and it will be done by a vote so don't get your undies in a wad....change will come _weather you like it or not.Out with the old and here comes the 20th century thinking...nah Cynthia I have better plans for her...shes not going to be on the Council but her position will be of great importance she has a lot to offer...and way more Authority but in much better area of the BUSINESS. I have had the luxxary of studying the Nation and the confkicts of inerest and the Estate neither of which the circumstance should we be in right...for the people by the people of the people and in either way tnis has not happened as designed. You can get mad about what is not happening and yeaterday is here...a leopard will not chage its spots in other words the Shareholder's must insist...and I am one to recon with..we can not have more of the same...And I have ran suusuccessful businesses to five star and I can bring a lot more talent...of course the New Council will be on the same page..and Osage..no worryes our Culture in tact...and whats even better the IT system will be set up like it should...next meetings you will be able to hear all audio, live feed skype and as a Shareholder you will be able to respond...and any device will be compatible, this is some of the things I will bring to the Shareholder's communication. And this is just the tip...we all want it and need it...you guys can complain all you want...and keep it up...but I'm one to get things done.
DeleteLol ,You need to educate yourself you can kick scream about those Regulations so long over due you will be going to the bank happy..I can assure you it does not matter as the facts speak for themselves the Regs have been in the makes before the HPP case...and Cynthia would not be able to do anything. Can you tell me her position on the Council and what she does? And I want precise, expressed detail what her role is?
DeleteI told you all that this blog is not going to become a whipping post for your ugly comments about Cynthia. I have a good memory and in the last Mineral Council go round it was 5 to 3 against these new CFRs and those members of the three were Sonny Abbot, Galen Crum and Andrew Yates. The new Minerals Council is also divided on these new CFRs and it's also 5 to 3 again, with the three being Everett Waller, Galen Crum and Andrew Yates. These are the members of the Minerals Council who are supporting the Federal government's attempt, after the punishing HPP lawsuit was settled against them, to make these new CFR changes. The important matter at hand here is whether or not these new regulations will interfere and diminish the oil and gas business and the key words here are "such as it was prior to the NegReg proposed changes." Business has dropped off substantially BEFORE the price of oil dropped and oil companies that held leases left and sold their interest to other companies in a flight out of Osage County. The new CFRs have not been put in place to date that I am aware of but the threat of what they will cause is impending. Permit me to quote from an earlier Osage Blog Post:
Delete"Whoever said "good for Galen" is totally misinformed about the potential train wreck that will be caused by the pending NEG REGS. Of course Galen would vote "no" because of his huge pride of authorship in the monstrosity of the NEGREGS. These regulations, through the ONRR program (Office of Natural Resource Revenue) will guarantee that most producers will not have the time or computer ability to comply with the onerous reporting requirements. The resultant fines levied by the Superintendent will cause many operators to just walk away. The production is already down over 2000/barrels per day, not because of lower oil prices, but because of current and pending BIA actions. Galen Crum, along with Andrew Yates and Sonny Abbott, have performed a lobotomy on the County. The Mineral Estate is slowly dying away and those three think they deserve a pat on the back."
Certainly Galen, Andrew, Everett, Sonny and Ray McLain have the absolute right to their opinion but, it's my personal belief that a plethora of business regulations at the Federal and State level slow and impede the progress of business and that's any business you can think of anywhere in the world. Not only do the oil producers have to contend with a whole new set of strident regulations and fines associated with them, the BIA, as a result of the Donalson lawsuit has slapped another 400 plus pages of regulations as well so when I read the above Osage Blog post, I have a tendency to take it seriously.
There are those Osages and even oil producers in Osage County who feel that the DOI and the BIA are doing what they are doing in a vindictive manner to punish the Osages for the HPP lawsuit. I'm reserving judgment but all the same, it does appear that they are, by their actions, making it difficult if not impossible for "business as usual" before the HPP lawsuit was settled when payment checks per quarter were in the $9,000 to $10,000 range per quarter, prior to the announcement of the NegRegs produced new CFRs when things almost immediately began to slow down with the outcry coming from the only quarter; the oil producers, that are going to make money for those with a Headright interest. I heard yesterday from an Osage in a position to know that the upcoming quarterly check will be in the neighborhood of $4,000, a substantial drop from where it was a year or more ago. In addition, we have the wind machines all over Burbank and so on that does not bode well. If the BIA wrote a letter to cease and desist to the Italian company putting up the wind farm machines, why was a whopping fine not issued to them for refusing to comply? These are the tools of the Federal government, why were they not used to stop the progress of this company? Instead, they chose to get legal which is the slowest path possible to obtain the results legally required in a legal environment that is not favorable to Native Americans at either the State or Federal level. It appears to me that the argument can be made that the DOI and the BIA are not appearing to operate on our team per the fiduciary obligation they have to both the Osage Nation and the Headright owners. Standing back, the situation is personally horrifying to me especially since Osages with Headright checks are being hurt by what is happening today and I see no end in sight. Once these regulations are in play, we are going to have to deal with unintended consequences and there will be no turning back to the status quo pre NegReg CFRs and Performance EAs and whatever all else is up ahead next. Beyond whopping fines that will go back to the Federal government and not benefit the Headright owners, what I want to know, if all these regulations are the steak, where's the sizzle? What benefits will we see from hundreds of pages of new regulations? It's a fair question. Please be specific.
DeleteFirst and formost there is no whipping post going on, change will come at a cost...and you Osageblogger have to let people express their First Admendment. Which is why you opened this site to give people a Voice...or shut it down, you of all people should no better. Right and I am a big supporter what needs to happen...simple shape up or we will do the nessasary ,as Shareholder's. So, we know are check will be 50% less this was warned many times over....drilling stoped everywhere and it wasn't just here...thousands have lost there jobs because of supply and demand and Opec flooding the Market even your wrong to a degree about the circumstance...but really no one is bashing anyone just stating what is coming down the pike.....I own more oil than just the Osage so tell more what needs to happen or someone please tell me why the regs are going to hurt? Off the Res, the regs that I have to deal with are the same and I'm still making money not so much because of the flood of oil But the regs are the same...so you tell me how are we not going to make money with the new regs...I can tell you because I get the NYMEX price my net is better and I can tell you there is no by passing any natural gas? You couldn't talk more to the right person....worked with some of the greatest people...multi billion dollar Buisnesses...so tell me something different. I woulld be more specific what needs to happen and I have spoken on these issues already...I support these changes and for the Better...
DeleteMany sides to this as pointed with many confused and this is why we need a full running Petroleum office...I know whats going on with my wells at all time if there is something wrong I can get assistance and find out the stats and so forth with the future lined out. This is the private sector and you would have thought our M.E would be in a better position and I can tell you why...someone doesn't want an efficient and effective M.E and I have my own opinion as to why...nothing is an accident and long live the 1906 act and my eyes are wide open..much appreciate this site..but reality is today and change for the better, change needs to come for the Shareholder's and a voice is needed...Hard changes need to happen...
Delete$4,405.00 per Headright. As usual, the Shareholders get shafted but at least the Osage government is going to continue to make millions through the casinos. Gotta pay that $100K for the Chief and the $60K for each Congress member plus all the pets projects. The ME will soon be in control of the Osage Government because something has to pay the electric bill for the new campus. I hope you enjoyed the HPP payoff because that was the last hooray for the Shareholders. It's just a slow, painful death from here on. Thank the 2006 Chief and his legal cronies for this mess. But hey, that ol' Chief and his friends are millionaires now and his successor got his nieces and nephews sweet jobs at the casinos. That's all that matters - close friends and family get the pie, the rest of us gets the crumbs. GO TEAM OSAGE!
DeleteMan someone sure does know how to spead the lies...the M.E will go on.without the Nation getting involved it isn't up the Nation...bottom line if they get involved there will be suits filed and the the Nation will be in a lot of hurt...this is a Shareholder's response to a person that is half educated.
DeleteLaws don’t matter. According to the 1906 Act ONLY the shareholders were supposed to be allowed to vote in a new government – not every Osage in existence. The goal of the new government was to control the casino revenues and build a bureaucracy to control those revenues. The only way to get the new government to put fear into the Osages that the Tribe would no longer exist if the last full-blood Shareholder dies. The Vote for the new government was a sham and the only way to overthrow the Shareholders was to have them outnumbered by non-shareholders. This is a de-facto government – it is by law an illegal government. But laws don’t matter as long as money and power is involved.
DeleteYes, the ME will go on but the Shareholders will eventually receive nothing or next to nothing when the Osage Government finally wrestles control of the ME revenue from the Shareholders once and for all. Don’t you remember that the Osage Government tried to highjack the HPP case? Don’t you remember that the lawyers were insisting that the HPP money belong to the “Osage Nation” rather than the Shareholders themselves? The term Osage Nation replaced the term Osage Tribe for various reasons. One of those reasons was to obtain the HPP revenue and to make claim that the “Nation” owns and controls the ME and therefore should receive the ME revenue in the future.
You and I as individuals are not the “Osage Nation”. We are merely people who have voting rights to determine who sits in office. The ‘Osage Nation” is a bureaucracy to make its own rules, to employ certain people in power, and to control capital enterprises. The Osage Government has done nothing but grow in totalitarian power and consumption of resources. It will continue to grow in its bureaucracy until everything is consumed in its path. The Osage Government is here to stay because it gives a few the power over the people, the money, and the resources.
I mentioned all this during the previous Osage Shareholder’s log web sight. Everything I said was true then as it is true today. Nothing this government surprises me because people who seek power and influence will do anything to obtain power and influence.
One needs to analyse the 2004 affirmation Act of the U.S. Congress. It states that the Osages can determine their own form of goverrnment and determine their own membership. Where it gets tricky is this determinative phrase, "...not membership in the Osage Tribe for all purposes." The legal question is whether or not the membership was opened up to all Osages at the time that this Act was signed by President Bush. Certainly Hepsi Barnettt and the OGRC thought so and went forward from that point to include every Osage they could find and get to register to vote in both the Referednum and Constitutional elections. What do you think?
Deletehttp://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-108publ431/pdf/PLAW-108publ431.pdf
DeleteSECTION 1. REAFFIRMATION OF CERTAIN RIGHTS OF THE “OSAGE
DeleteTRIBE”
"The legal question is whether or not the membership was opened up to all Osages at the time that this Act”….. NO NO NO and again NO. ----O-N-L-Y----- members of the Osage Tribe as defined by the 1906 Act (Shareholders) were allowed to change the government. The reason for this restriction was to protect the Shareholders and the ME from being diminished and taken over by non-shareholder interest. This includes the Federal government, oil producers, corporations, The State of Oklahoma, and non-shareholders and non-Osages.
The Public Law 108–431 2004 reaffirmation of certain rights of the Osage
Tribe was a REAFFIRMATION of the 1906 Act concerning the “Osage Tribe” a.k.a the Shareholders not every Osage and not any non-Osage shareholder.
Right now, the only true supporters of the new government are the ones in power. The non-shareholders participated in an illegal vote because they were led to believe they would get a piece of the ME and moreover hoping to get a per cap from the casino revenue. Many non-shareholders voted merely out of spite to overthrow the Shareholders. The ol’ Chief and his cronies promised the moon and all the stars in heaven if the non-shareholders voted in a new government. Many people are disillusioned and realize they were merely pawns in a game of money and power.
The Osage Government desperately wants the ME revenue and there will never ever in a millions years be a per cap. Why? Imagine having to dole out casino revenue to 14,000 people. Not gonna happen, nope, nada, never. The Osage Government is a system of consumption and control. The system is not a Shareholder / non-Shareholder relationship but rather a political class / common man relationship. The political class has an insatiable desire to control everything for the sake of the government. BTW, doesn’t anyone remember that one particular Congress member who suggested taxing the ME? Yeah, you know who I’m talking about.
Speaking of taxes The Osage politicians better enjoy their government while it last. The Feds will someday turn its eyes on the Casino revenue and the Indians better pay Uncle Sam his new taxes or else the Osage Nation will lose it’s “sovereignty” once and for all. Ah yes, I can see it now, The Osage Government in drowning lawsuit after lawsuit just to keep itself alive. Better tighten up those slot machines because it’s gonna get real expensive to fight Old Man Sam.
Anyway, I just popped in here to say what I wanted to say. But I don’t want to re-hash everything I said before because what has been done is done and there is no turning back. Shareholder interest has been diminished. The ME has been diminished. A few select people became quite wealthy by stabbing the Shareholders in the back and lying to the Osage people. The Feds will eventually tax and/or destroy the tribal nations once and for all. I know this is all pretty gloomy but the reality of this world is about power, influence, and money - and the Osages are no different. GO TEAM OSAGE!
It's hard to argue your point of view when members of Congress like that Bad Buffalohead seem alarmed at how much money is being spent on programs for direct services to the membership like healthcare and education; wanting a head count of the membership in the last Congressional Session when a cool $30 mill is going to float that corrupt boat otherwise known as the Osage Nation government. 15% comes right off the top of the yearly budget for them to horde away from the membership while salaries grow with 3% bonuses a year that are entirely undeserved and unjustified. Then they have the nerve to act like we're only in it for the money as if they aren't filthy with greed, all the while getting double and triple in salary and benefits what they should be getting for what can only be seen to be part time jobs. Yes, we have been hideously used despite what we were lead to believe would take place before and, let me emphasize, after the old government was replaced with this juggernaut of a government. The thing is that they are going where they are going as a result of a U.S. Executive Branch Court; the Interior Board of Indian Appeals, the highest Administrative Court of the United States Department of the Interior. The same Board of Indian Appeals probably weighed in in a similar manner on the Osage National Council government back in the 1990's that the Judicial Federal 10th Circuit Court, on appeal, threw right it in the trash can where it belonged in the first place. The Interior Board of Indian Appeals is not a Judicial Branch court and is by no means the final say in the matter. I spoke with an Osage who is very up on what is going on and this individual was totally confused and bamboozled by the Osage Nation's attempt to make it seem like this court is the one with the final decision making power which is total disinformation. The Executive Branch clarifies what it sees as the law that it's tasked to execute but it is the Judicial Branch that interprets the law and they are the final legal authority in the matter. Always a slight of hand with these Osage Nation government Osages. That's why no one wants to work with them.
DeleteI think this may be it: Federal government releases new Osage County rules
ReplyDeletehttp://journalrecord.com/2015/05/08/federal-government-to-release-new-osage-rules-monday-energy/
http://www.law360.com/articles/653638/bia-revamps-gas-development-regs-for-osage-nation-land
DeleteThe Final Rule: https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/05/11/2015-11314/leasing-of-osage-reservation-lands-for-oil-and-gas-mining
DeleteThis rule is effective on July 10, 2015.
DeleteGame, set and match to the Department of the Interior! Now let's see if you're right Sonny and Galen and Andrew and Everett or if this is really the death knell of the income stream coming in from the Mineral Estate to punish the Osages for winning the HPP lawsuit.
DeleteOk all I have to say to you naysayers alas we are now moving in the direction for the Shareholder's ,now this has been a hot topic but we had to make these changes and as I've said before we should be focused on moving forward with with forward thinking yeah right well thats going to change. And each and everyone of the Naysayers need to read and weep...a win for the Shareholder's long over due...we are currently now caught up with the 21st century and will not be losing hand over fist full of dollars. let me make one thing clear the 1906 act is intact and recognized. It's mentioned all over the place and the power of the council still intact...just amazing how the Naysayers would have you believe differently as the above post...Forget about it, here comes forward thinking something that the MC could have been doing all the while we were in the midst of this transition. As I have said this was nessasary for accountability reasons and this protects everyone involved. The 1906 act is recognized and protected in the interest of the M.E and SHAREHOLDER'S! So, the sore loser who posted such non sense we now will move forward and really we need to get rid and start cleaning house...change will come to the M.C. The CFR'S are done...and changed and why should we as Shareholder's stop there..sorry this does not mean this is going to happen fast, what I don't get what has the Council done in three years that should have been done yesterday? It is a very long read and and actually will be quite try some of the comments and the audacity.But I will touch more on the subject but feeling a little underweather.
DeleteOk, the last part should read, a very long read and I think most will be surprised by the comments and the audacity of some of them..
DeleteAmen my friend, AMEN!!!
DeleteOK. You can't drill deep and horizontal wells haven't panned out. You'll be rid of the small producers who are the only ones who can afford to stay on and pull out 3-10 barrels a day so who will be left to undertake this big 21st Century change of yours? When Sonny's three plus headrights all drop off to half of what one of them was worth before the new CFRs were put together, will he get up to speed then? He won't be man enough to apologize to anyone then but he will still be the man responsible for having destroyed the income generating Osage Mineral Estate for all the headright owners. You were warned against this and still you persisted. You don't deserve what you have because you think of no one but yourselves and nothing can dissuade you from this self-destructive path.
DeleteNow your being a sore loser and thats not becoming. I would like to hear from the Council and when the coming out party will begin...in other words will thay put a statement out...they have all the letters submitted by the BIA. And now we can focus our attention on building a future by the Shareholder's demand...term limits and replacement....transperency with communication long over due.A clean slate with fresh innovative thinking...our future is today and ours to see...as I've said time after time...oil else where is doing fine with these regs and so we will be fine to...as I have said I own wells outside the M.E and with these regs no impact...bunch of lies...as a matter of fact, when it comes to the NEPA requirements we are more impacted by their influence more than the M.E will ever be..because we are unique, the 1906 Act prevails...My opinion ,we could not be more estatic. One of the big issues is well plugging...whos responsible. And is defined now. With the old contracts we will be getting the NYMEX price from here on in...so you tell me how the checks are going to be influenced, in our direction...so you tell me how I don't deserve what I have? Bottom line, I would never say that to any one no matter how you felt and really we are here in the same boat, just the same, we all want the same thing and that is to bring INTEGRITY to the M.E. To the Chief still lookin to compact the ME that won't happen..and the State of Oklahoma has no say..to put it simpler. Fines and fees have risen but only to ensure our stability that everything is insured to protect tthe interest of the M.E now in alignment with the 21st century. It is evident as I've said before that we need a full running Petroleum office..it is clear that we must maintain a relationship with the surface owners and why there is a huge gap in what I coin is somewhere they got lost in translation. .and the rapport could not come sooner..but now defined in the Regs they now know their rights as we do. When you go on someones land you better have every document to support why you are there with respect. This is truly long past due should we building apon improving on top of and get out of the reverse mode...we can be our own worst enemy and this will not suffice any longer.
DeleteAMEN again!!
DeleteI would really like to be wrong but we'll see. No Osage in this new government will ever admit to making a big mistake or failing so no one will accept responsibility in any event. The headright check quarterly amounts will tell bottom line and what the reaction of the men who pull the oil and gas out of the ground. You should listen to the meetings. Tribes are operational with these regs and they are not happy. In fact, one of them has filed a lawsuit as result of what isn't that should be happening. You've gotten what you want but don't count on the BIA compacting situation going away anytime soon because the new CFRs haven't guaranteed that this won't happen in the future. The U.S. Congress says to take a walk, the Feds will do exactly that and no new Act of the U.S. Congress is required to protect you. The moral of the story is, it's not smart to sue the Federal government. From here on in, know this; the Feds are not your friend and never will be again if they ever were in the first place. They know how to play rough all over the world and from now on you can expect that it will be the same for you and all the rest of us as a result.
DeleteFurther reading:
Deletehttp://www.indiancountrynews.com/index.php/news/26-mainstream-politics/3752-dorgan-says-bia-incompetent-over-lack-of-tribal-drilling
http://www.texaslawyer.com/id=1202721498273/New-Fracking-Fuss-Over-Federal-Rules-for-Public-and-Tribal-Lands?slreturn=20150411152609
http://www.ogj.com/articles/2015/04/colorado-joins-two-other-states-in-lawsuit-against-blm-s-fracturing-regs.html
http://www.naturalgasintel.com/articles/101735-interior-unveils-final-rule-for-fracking-on-public-tribal-lands
http://www.westernenergyalliance.org/why-western-oil-natural-gas/what-fracking/blm-fracking-rule
http://www.minerallawblog.com/permitting/north-dakota-and-others-look-to-challenge-new-federal-fracking-regulations/
http://www.law360.com/articles/635144/rage-rises-to-the-top-at-blm-s-new-fracking-rules
Some historical perspective:
Deletehttp://www.law2.byu.edu/jpl/Vol%2019.1/01Mccarthy.pdf
Will this eventually happen with the BIA and BLM in the Osage?
Lots to read anything in paticular you would like to discuss poster at 1:55pm
DeleteNew CFRs:
Deletehttp://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2015-05-11/pdf/2015-11314.pdf
Yes. Are these brand new BLM Fracking regs in the new Osage oil and gas leasing CFRs as incorporated BLM onshore regulations?
DeleteYes.. Provisions for ensuring the protection of groundwater supplies by requiring a validation of well integrity and strong cement barriers between the wellbore and water zones through which the wellbore passes;
Delete• Increased transparency by requiring companies to publicly disclose chemicals used in hydraulic fracturing to the Bureau of Land Management through the website FracFocus, within 30 days of completing fracturing operations;
• Higher standards for interim storage of recovered waste fluids from hydraulic fracturing to mitigate risks to air, water and wildlife;
• Measures to lower the risk of cross-well contamination with chemicals and fluids used in the fracturing operation, by requiring companies to submit more detailed information on the geology, depth, and location of preexisting wells to afford the BLM an opportunity to better evaluate and manage unique site characteristics.
Hope this helps.
Thank you. It does and I appreciate your taking the time for the clarification. Where I'm hung up is this phrase, "to afford the BLM an opportunity to better evaluate and manage unique site characteristics." I thought the BLM was to be no where in sight and that it was the BIA that was going to manage and administrate the new CFRs in Osage County.
DeleteI thought so too.
DeletePoster @11:19 am, do not understand why my comment posted under, may 12 th post @1:38 pm. Wierd. But my post is for you.
DeleteScroll down a little bit, thank you. Maybe OsageBlogger can help and fix it.
DeleteOops 2:09 pm
DeleteThis is supplemental. Most of the Regs or all are performed any way and is part of the (APD) process, because of The NEPA requirements and the E.A..is performed before the permitting is and was in the Original CFR'S anyway...and is currently performed by the operations. this being a added aide to protect all interest involved. This is my take if I have right..lots of read..and interesting. .not that big of a deal. And somewhere back in my memory banks, the BIA has the discretion one way or the other to use as a template if necessary but by the looks most operators are compliant anyway as added security and benefit to them in all of the processes..non of this in the Private Sector goes amiss. Though we the Osage can be sure failure is not an option.
DeleteNever mind about these guys right? but somebody's not happy
DeleteOsage County operators decry new regulations
http://journalrecord.com/2015/05/11/osage-operators-decry-new-cfrs-energy/
Do not subscribe as most probably don't. Can you copy paste article?
DeleteThe new CFR's are a travesty. The bonding requirements alone will impair or prevent most small operators from continued business in the County. Currently, the regulations state that bonding is $5000/quarter section or 160 acres, regardless of the number of wells. The new regs state that bonding will be $5000/well. Capped at 25 wells. Most little guys don't have that kind of cash lying around. Back up the trailers. Lots of guys will be leavin' town.
DeleteI know one guy who has at least 16 wells on one single lease. How far do you think the old $5,000 would go if he should walk away. If you happened to encounter just a little bad luck, you might not even plug one of those wells with $5,000. Yay for the new CFR's. Besides, a $5,000 bond for a single well will cost about $500, and by the way, it's a one time expense. The bond does not expire with time. This is just a cost of doing business. Someone said awhile back that you couldn't insure a new car for $500, and that's an annual expense.
DeleteAnd the truth will set you free...comments from those in the Osage who really know what's going on. Don't buy the government line that it's the price of oil that's caused the problem. It started with the NegReg, continued with the Donalson law suit and the BIA's EA and EIS requirements and has ended with the new CFRs. The Osage Nation government officials will try and convince you that it's the fault of the Minerals Council in order to try and put in effect a hostile takeover of the Mineral Estate and the Minerals Agency but it's just not true. Remember it's been five of the eight Minerals Council members in the 2nd and 3rd Council who have tried to warn all of us and to stave off these bad things that have happened. Read the truth here about the Nymex rate and much more >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/yanman/
Delete“We do believe the rules balance the various interests of producers and service owners, and it does ensure the Osage mineral estate will be developed for the benefit of the Osage,” Osage what? The Osage Nation? The Osage Headright owners?
Deletehttp://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/bureau-of-indian-affairs-department-of-interior-release-final-rules/article_c2b8fb81-b3bb-5a14-8f97-068e372f4672.html
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I happen to disagree. A 100,000 people have lost their jobs across the country due to the shale game OPEC is playing...The Chief caanot takeover the M.E if thats the case it would have happened years ago. But I would be willing to lisren to what his thoughts are In regards to moving and creating a viable M.E.
DeleteI have listened and read and on an on. The Nation can't take over anything successfully if that's what they think they can handle. They can't even get things figured out with the Osage LLc and 19 million dollars lost and counting. If you think the Osage government is the solution, you're more far gone than you realize.
DeleteIt never pays to not listen to a suggestion obviously the Choice would be up to the SHAREHOLDER'S. geez, No harm and no foul..right, just common sense...we are in this boat together and others are and will have suggestions.And truly we need innovative thinking...I know where the power lies and will forevermore the 1906 act and the Shareholder's but lets not forget each and every Shareholder has a part. Man people dont get your undies in a wad..in short...this is why we are in the boat we find ourselves. no communication.
DeleteShareholders? What voice do we have except through the Mineral Council? If they are taken over by the Nation as is suggested by the article that recently appeared in the Osage News and are denuded of any power by the new BIA CFRs, how much voice do you think the Shareholders will have after July 10, 2015? How much voice do you think the Minerals Council will have unless they make some move to stop this situation from going forward? 60% of the oil taken out of the ground is in association with stripper wells that involve the small producers. If they are put out of business by the new BIA CFRs, 60% of your quarterly payment will go away and roughly half of that is down now as a result of the oil price so if payment was $9,000 per quarter, half of that would be $4,500 and 60% of that would be minus $2,700 or $1,800 left per quarterly payment. If this takes place, we have payment yearly going from $36,000 per Headright down to $7,200; $10,800 of which will no longer be available if the small oil producers are driven out of business in Osage County due to the BIA's new CFRs. Not exactly the way any entity under a fiduciary obligation to another party should be acting where the best interest of that party is concerned. Right? If the Osage Nation should try and blame the members of the Minerals Council for this debacle, who, in particular should they blame? The ones who sat on the NegReg Committee? Sonny Abbott, Galen Crum and Andrew Yates? Certainly not the other five members who have stood to support the oil producers who earn the income generated upon which the royalty is paid that is distributed in the headright checks. Yes? If the Nation should decide to try and take advantage of the situation to "go in now" to make a move on the Mineral Council and the Mineral Estate while headright payments are low and people, "won't care so much," don't you think that all of the members of the Osage Congress and the Chief should be e-mailed in support of the Minerals Council and in particular, those members of the Minerals Council who have supported the income earners, that is the oil producers? Wouldn't it also be a good idea to tell the elected officials to stay out of Minerals business and to recommend to those Osage Nation elected officials you e-mail, the suggestion that they continue to try and keep from failing with the other businesses or business entities that they have been struggling to manage and maintain since 2006?
DeleteWhat's so strange is that all these headright owners act like they don't even realize that their income is being taken away from them right before their eyes. Get off your backsides and do something about this before there is nothing left in your quarterly checks. Neither the BIA or the Osage Nation is your friend so act accordingly. You would do something if someone stepped up to steal your wallet or your purse, wouldn't you? Call the members of the mineral council who still have your best interest at heart and find out what to do about this before its too late. Today.
DeleteThe Minerals Council Meeting is tomorrow Friday, May 15th at 10 A.M., and Wednesday, May 20th at 10 A.M.
DeleteJune payment is $4405 a HR.
ReplyDeleteThanks.
DeleteGALEN?
DeleteWhy want Galen's opinion, he agreed to this mess. Wouldn't believe a word he says. He's just an shareholder not much Osage.
DeleteLet's not get personal, please. Galen and Ray and everyone else who makes comments are welcome to the discussion here.
DeleteWatch out Osages!!! Standing Brar has been talking about the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934 for many years!!!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.indianz.com/News/2015/017430.asp
Not worried.
DeleteOf course you aren't. What happens to your membership in the Osage Nation if only a "community of half-bloods" come to be the only Osages recognized by the Federal government as members of the Osage Nation?
DeleteShoot its probably less than that, but the facts as they are as decades go by the blood line get s thinner. Tell me something that has teeth to it this us old news
DeleteGO CYNTHIA!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.indianz.com/News/2015/017397.asp
Keep an eye on these guys >>>>>>>
ReplyDeletehttps://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/news-events/events/ones-llc-board-meeting-1#zoom=9&lat=36.4257&lon=-96.66046&layers=T0B00
Osage Shareholders Association Meeting will be Sunday, May 17 at dave Landrum Hall Pawhuska..Pot Luck we furnish meat and drinks..program is "What is Going On?"
ReplyDeleteThank you, Mary Lee.
DeleteGood for Chief StandingBear and Congresswoman Shannon Edwards! New Medicare health benefit services for Osage elders video presentation at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5IHW6uXC1o
ReplyDeletePutting on the brakes? See the article at http://examiner-enterprise.com/news/local-news/wind-energy-bills-continue-progress
ReplyDeleteHope somebody could give me an answer why the oil posting for may 12/2015 show 56.00 when in fact oil closed at 60.90? That's 4.90 amount but its always been around 3.50 for different in what we get
ReplyDeleteNymex price was $60.75 not $60.90 on 5/12/15, first of all. The Sunoco price on that day was $57.00 which is probably closer to what oil sold for in Oklahoma and $56.00 was the Highest Posted Price. The Nymex rate won't be effective as a benchmark for Osage royalty payments to be paid on until the new CFRs are in effect on July 10, 2015.
Deletehttp://newsok.com/oil-and-gas-livestock-prices-for-may-13/article/5418471
Tks mister anonymous for ur information.cnn money market shows different prices then what u posted for the an that!!! may 12 60.90 may 13 60.75 may 14 59.88.But the question was usually there only about 3.50 difference.question was why almost $5.00 difference on the date of may 12.
DeleteUntil July 10, NYMEX really has nothing to do with the Highest Posted Price we receive for royalty oil. It is only a indicator of the pricing trend that day. The daily HPP is taken from the prices posted by the purchasers of 95% of the Osage oil on any given day. Then the daily HPP is averaged for the month, and that's what we get for each barrel of our royalty oil that month. After July 10, we are supposed to be paid the closing NYMEX amount each day for each barrel, according to the new CFR's. I don't know if that will be averaged for the month or not, but probably. That would make the accounting much simpler.--------------Incidently, the amount we get for our royalty bbls has nothing to do with what the Producers receive for their bbls. They negotiate their own prices with the purchasers on an individual basis and they might be receiving more or less than NYMEX. Many of them have allegedly already been receiving much more than NYMEX for their oil for many years. Hope this helps with your question TDTNB.
DeleteYes, the NYMEX rate. For a few dollars more...
DeleteNo producer gets NYMEX. Chaparral use to but when Coffeyville shut down their pipeline, their oil is now trucked along with all other operators in the County. Transportation is deducted from the proceeds. Thus ALL producers get much less than NYMEX. Usually around $3/barrel. If you don't believe me, call Coffeyville. Ray, your ignorance on some issues is astounding.
DeleteDid I forget to say ALLEGEDLY---? Maybe you had better read that post again. That was one of the core issues that was proven at the neg-reg meetings. The result was, now the Osages get their royalty based on NYMEX. So did many Producers receive NYMEX or above at that time. Did you miss the boat? Way to go neg reg committee. I'm liking these new CFR's more and more.
DeleteMy comments about your ignorance still stand. If the producers are going to have to pay royalty on a price they don' t receive, how long do you think some will stay in business? Imagine if you sold a share of stock for $20 and your neighbor sold his for $23. The IRS now says you have to pay your tax based on the $23 sale price even though you only received $20. You would scream bloody murder and if that continued, you may have to sell assets to pay you tax liability. NYMEX was proved to be unworkable in the Denver NEGREG meetings that started 5 months before the Osage meetings. They determined transportation has to be accounted for in the final price. Some of the same committee members from Denver were on the Osage committee. That tells me that they had nothing but contempt for the Osage tribe and did not care about the consequences!
DeleteIt’s been 10 years since the last royalty increase, and that last increase doesn’t affect those already grandfathered in at 12 ½% thru 18%. It only affects new leases, but then you already know that. 20% of that $3.00 per bbl you so aptly calculated is $.60. ---- 12 ½% of the $3.00 is $0.37 1/2. That is a 1% and .63% increase respectively. You will surely survive that somehow. Inflation was 127% over the last 20 years and is projected to increase by 78% over the next 20 years.
DeleteNYMEX might have not been workable in Denver, but I think we are about to see it work very well in Pawhuska. If you will recall, at the first neg reg meetings, they were talking about NYMEX-PLUS. Maybe they took the PLUS off to compensate for the transportation expense.
I just don’t see the contempt for the Osages you speak of, nor do I see any lack of care for the consequences. These CFR’s had not been updated substantially for over 20 years. I guess that could be construed as “contempt for the Osages.” But, that is behind us. I hope in the future, they can be reviewed more often and kept up to date. It would make it easier on everyone.
I think it's a little more involved than that, Ray. Oversimplification does not work in your favor.
DeleteRun the numbers:
$56 a barrel HPP price.
7 barrels a day for a stripper well x 365 days.
$24 net a barrel at HPP price.
$3.00 x 20% additional per barrel for the Nymex rate x 7 x 365 = $1,533.
$500 ($5,000 bond per well capped at 25 wells on 160 acres). Per well, $500.
$10,000 per well for the EA.
Yearly net at HPP price per well at this rate of production: $61,320.
Yearly net with Nymex benchmark, EA/ EIS and new CFRs at this rate of production: $49,287.
Loss of 19.6% net overall on the first 25 wells on 160 acres at this rate of production.
$1,533 a year, at the least, seems like an unfair business practice. If the Osages are being duped by the BIA in retribution for the $388 million HPP lawsuit, as you suggest, and are attempting with overweening regulations, to run our Mineral Estate business into the ground, perhaps someone should place this situation before the FTC or whatever government entity acts with oversight responsibility on the activities of the BIA, DOI and at a distance the BLM. U.S. Congressional Committees have held hearings for much less than this and they have the plenary power over Native American Tribes, not the U.S. Executive Branch or any Executive Branch department, agency or bureau.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Trade_Commission
If you really plan to spend $10,000 per year on a well for a EA, you really should find another business. This simplified EA that has been worked out will cost the average Producer far less than 10K (more like $1500), and even that is a one-time expense, which cannot be included as an annual expense. If the other expense items you project are as disingenuous as this, your accounting creditability just went down the tubes. Please stop the smoke and mirrors. It won’t work! As for my ignorance, you’ll just have to excuse that. I suggest you hire a good oil & gas accountant if you really believe the numbers you espouse.
DeleteUsing your figure of $1,500 as opposed to $10,000, that's still a loss of 5.7% to the net overall on the first 25 wells in the first year.
DeleteFirst year net with Nymex benchmark, EA and new CFRs at this rate (7 barrels a day) of production: $57,787. Multiplying the first year cost of $3,533 by 25 wells is $88,325 that didn't have to be paid out before the Osage NegReg Committee got going with these new CFRs and the EAs required. The regulations seem to change with this EA situation on a daily basis, so how do you know what more will be required over time in hard cost per well? Numbers aside, the contempt shown here on this Blog toward the oil producers side of the things is as much on your part as it is with the BIA. If nothing more, putting these numbers together today has brought this out in the open and shown a light on it that is quite clear. To get income in your quarterly headright check, what do you have to do or to contribute in order to get that income?
You keep talking about 25 wells but you don’t multiply the production sold by 25. That’s $1,444,675.00. All you want to talk about is the expense of $88,325.00 for 25 wells. That looks like a decent 39% ROI to me.
DeleteI intend no contempt toward the Producers, and have never said anything contemptuous. That is more of your smoke screen. I do disagree with you as an individual tho, and I find your remark about what I do to earn my headright income to be quite disrespectful, to me, and to all other Shareholders. We own these minerals and we have the BIA to manage our business interest therein. We, through the BIA, will set our prices and our regulations in the fairest manner possible, but we don’t intend to be taken advantage of. When you think about it, it’s the best deal going for the Producers. Unlike North Dakota, we don’t have 30 degrees below zero weather and our oil brings about $10 more per bbl. Unlike central Oklahoma we have no earth quakes and no restrictions on salt water disposal. Unlike California, have plenty of water to drill with, and unlike Texas and other places, we aren’t asking for 25% royalties. I really don’t know what you have to complain about.
To correct my error, that is a 652% Return On Investment in the 1st paragraph. And you're griping???
DeleteThere seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about how to calculate the effect of using NYMEX monthly average price for our benchmark royalty valuation as opposed to HPP. Here are some actual prices and royalty comparisons during the last year. In January 2014 the average HPP price per barrel was $91.37. The NYMEX average was $94.86, or a difference of $3.49. In order to determine the royalty difference between the two indexes you first have figure the royalty for each one. I’ll use the maximum 20% royalty rate so as to be illustrating the maximum possible royalty difference for this situation. 20% of the NYMEX price $94.86 (.20X 94.86) is $18.97 royalty. The same calculation with the HPP price of $91.37 results in $18.37, for a difference of 70 cents more royalty per barrel when using the NYMEX index for Osage share. As I stated before, this is the maximum per barrel royalty increase that would have been possible had NYMEX been in force then. Most of our producers receive more than HPP price and very few of those that don’t, aren’t paying the maximum 20% (or 1/5th ) royalty, most are only paying either 1/6th or even 1/8th royalty.
DeleteThe average oil price actually received by our producers during this same month was $93.46, or $2.09 per barrel above the HPP average price. Using the same 20% royalty calculations as above, the royalty on the average received price was $18.69, or $.28 below the $18.97 NYMEX royalty figure.
So the using example of the small producer making only 7 barrels a day that the poster above references would owe the Osages $4.90 (.70 X 7 barrels) more royalty per day using the NYMEX benchmark as opposed to HPP. Or about the price of a McDonalds sandwich. Remember, this is the maximum difference possible, if he pays a lower royalty rate his increase will be less. If the same guy is selling oil at the average paid price he would pay $1.96 (.28 X 7 barrels) more per day using NYMEX at the maximum 20% royalty.
I recently completed the same analyses of the price differences in all the months between January 2014 and March 2015 and the results were nearly identical through out. The average royalty difference between NYMEX and HPP was 70 cents per barrel and the difference between NYMEX and actual average price paid was 31 cents per barrel.
This same poster referenced above was also making some wildly inaccurate claims about the added cost of EA’s needed for permits. Now that the programmatic EA’s have been completed by the BIA for leasing and workovers, there should be virtually no added costs for these. There is no EA work to be done by the producer for a lease and merely the taking of 7 site pictures to be included in the permit application for a workover. There is now also an EA template for drilling permits that is available online or from the BIA, which a producer can copy and fill in any site specific information that might not be covered in the template. If a producer doesn’t want to do this, the BIA will do it for him free of charge using this same template, but of course it will likely take a little more time to process the permit. When the new EIS is completed at the end of this year, the drilling permits can be handled pretty much like the workover permits, site specific info and pictures.
Thank you Galen for your analysis of this situation. Judging from some of the other web sites I've seen since last Monday, the temperature is running fairly high on these issues and I appreciate you putting this information up here for the Shareholders to read and digest.
Deletelet's be glad that Starbucks doesn't sell their coffee by the barrel. How many cups of that $3.50 coffee would it take to make up a 42 gallon barrel? The royalty would be $100. Gasoline could be $500 per gallon. That would make nymex look good.
DeleteGalen thank you for responding and Ray Ray, stay strong my friend...smoke and mirrors a understatement. Keep up thr good fight.
DeleteAs a follow-up to my post above it should be pointed out that an EA (environmental assessment) or and EIS (environmental impact study) are just documentation vehicles that show that potential environmental problems have been studied and dealt with. Just like as has always been the case we still have to comply with the various federal laws like the Endangered Species Act, or the ones governing clean air and water etc. The EA or EIS merely documents that they have been considered and what steps were taken to be in compliance. By doing programmatic assessments (entire County) each permit doesn’t have to be dealt with as a stand alone assessment but rather as an action that has already been studied and compliance needs identified and addressed. So there will still need to be Archeological studies, proper site construction to ensure water and air protection ect. Just like what has always been the case.
DeleteAlso, when considering the impact of an added seventy cents per barrel maximum average royalty increase from 20% of HPP to 20% of monthly NYMEX any reference to the yearly increase of royalty cost to the producer should also be examined in the context of yearly income produced by the lease. The hypothetical 7 barrels a day lease paying 20% royalty and selling oil and paying royalty at the bottom of the market HPP price grosses $626.57 dollars a day or $228,698 dollars a year, using the average HPP price paid during 2014. Even after subtracting the highest possible 20% Osage royalty from the gross, it still leaves $182,958.44 of yearly net after royalty paid.
It's not smoke and mirrors. No one should have to pay a royalty on a higher price than they were paid for the product. This is nuts and could land all of us including the BIA and the DOI in a hell of a lot of trouble. I don't care if we lose a little in the benchmark pricing. Oil field work is dirty difficult and dangerous and I'm grateful for my check every quarter without you Osage government people inciting the oil and gas producers to sue, strike or riot plus have other government agencies all over us. You never once asked us what we think is fair and right in the pricing of this new futures benchmark. One of these days maybe you'll start representing the majority Osage headright owner interest and not Sonny Abbots or yours or whoever else in the Osage government. Look at the price of the June quarterly payment and don't tell me it has all to do with the lower price of oil because I don't believe you. I still think if you'd left well enough alone when you negotiated that HPP settlement that we had no say in whatever, that Drummond lawyer would never have had the opportunity to go nosing around to find that EPA regulation in the first place. You've made some very serious mistakes in all this and we have to pay for them as a result. The oil producers don't have a community to hand out checks to the young ones going to college. Some of these kids are hundreds of thousand of dollars in debt before their lives as adults have even begun. It's no wonder the suicide rate among them is so high. That's only one thing they have to pay for that we don't and the list is long. Taxpayer dollars is what pays for the $15 to $20 million in Federal government money we get and we can't live with them having a rate a bit below what they get paid per barrel of oil? I think they should complain and raise unholy hell. We should remember ourselves and how much they do for us and display some gratitude and humility. You're not the only ones involved and I say, put it to a vote of the Osage headright owners before you continue on this path that provokes rancor and bitterness in the only people who are doing the work which generates the income we receive in every quarterly payment.
DeleteI apologize, my yearly HPP income valuation comments above should have included the fact that I had computed the average 2014 HPP price as being $89.51 per barrel. That is the figure I used for the rest of the computations. Oil price wise, 2014 was an interesting year. The monthly average HPP price ranged from a high $101.69 to a low of $44.50. Of course we can do without that kind of "interesting".
DeleteOne more thing. Oil isn't at $91 a barrel any more. It's at $55 to $60 and that makes a huge difference in the net to the oil producers.
DeleteThe Minerals Council Meeting is to begin in a few minutes. The Agenda is located at https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/news-events/events/minerals-council-meeting-agenda-may-15
ReplyDeleteThe Live Media web page is located at https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/multimedia/live-media
Of particular note on the Agenda today are these items:
Deletea. George Shannon- Two angels
b. ONES- annual plan and proposed projects
c. EIS/MOU- Councilman Crum
The idea is to partner with the smaller lessees to keep them from going out of business. We put up the money and they continue to do business? Has spoken with Mr. Lyon of the Osage Oil Producers Association about this idea to extend a hand.
DeleteMr. Shannon proposed in his presentation for Two Angels, the above idea. Deferred to next Wednesday's MC Meeting. Assign their lease over to this new LLC of Two Angels? I was under the impression that the leases were not able to be assigned.
DeleteONES- annual plan and proposed projects Powerpoint presentation deferred until IT can get it set up.
DeleteTraining will take place on the new CFRs called outreach training for the oil and gas producers. This was discussed during the BIA Osage Superintendent's time before the Council Meeting.
DeleteOn 5 minute break. Will return with presentation from Robin Phillips and ONES, LLC.
DeleteI have to wonder which lease owners will be eager to assign their leases to another entity, for nothing but a promise, whereby this "other entity" will then own 51% of their 'former' lease??
DeleteONES, LLC presentation. Strategic planning is their task and to put in place their own business model since formed in 2012. Holding company for subsidiaries. Blah blah... to seek funding for pipline and opportunities in oil and gas with getting leases at the end of the year. Move forward with stakeholders. (Who are the stakeholders?) Developing funding to move ahead. Met with Red Cedar at Ignatio, Colorado and met with the Jicarilla Apache and their successful tribal energy companies. Have a good relationship with BIA and BLM.
DeleteThey have their own regulatory and compliance divisions with people employed within their Tribal communities. (Red Flag Here!)
Have bought a building. What do they need that for before they even have any projects that are making money to justify such a need?
DeleteEddy again pushing for owing an Osage oil company. If you choose to forget the past, you are doomed to repeat it. Osage 1 Osage 1 Osage 1. REMEMBER?
DeleteWhich lease owners would go for this? How does none sound?
DeleteTalee and the Orphan Well Project report.
DeleteSilly. Don't you know that all these Osage boards and commissions have to go first class all the way? That's why the budgets for them are millions and millions and millions of dollars of the Osage Peoples money which the Osage Congress appropriates for them and appoints, every chance they get. Have they ever asked whether so many people are needed and so much money needed to be spent?
DeleteI believe the Chief appoints them and the Congress confirms them.
DeleteOOPS! Robin Phillips comment: Orphan wells have a $5,000 bond per well and a new lease and a Performance EA required by the new CFRs...you're dead in the water before you get out of the gate. Yes Talee its been done before and it FAILED. Osage 1 Osage 1 Osage 1
DeleteIn Executive session.
DeleteNah the direction of partnership I say heck no...how is this going to benefit? And mostly how is this going to benefit the M.E? Reality is let the ball bounce with the smaller producers would they be there for us if we were in the same boat, hell no...and I was under the impression as well that these leases were not able to assign a lease over as well...Two Angles can pound sand and the Osage LLC stay out of our business. ..The Osage Nation cannot be trusted to do what is right for their own People...this is not the big ticket. .Ones get you hand out of our Business...
DeleteMOU to be discussed on Wednesday at the MC meeting. Talee wants all members of the Council to be involved. Good idea!!!
DeleteWell plugging problems discussed by the members of the Council. Does that Erwin woman always have to be so loud and rude when she speaks?
DeleteMeeting has been adjourned. Next meeting of the MC is on Wednesday of next week at 10:00 A.M. CSDT.
DeleteErwin has always been load and rude...that's just the way she is. Either doesn't know any better OR just doesn't care.
DeleteThank you, for the kindest to the one or one's who put the flowers in the attached vases above our Mother and Grandmothers Pawhuska Cemetery graves, on that hillside overlooking the new parking lot on the Agency Hill. At one time I believe American Indians, and possible interment local customs burial was facing the setting Sun. While others lookout over the now parking lot for the raising Sun. Further up the hill you may catch a glimpse of the curve at the end of the New Tribal buildings roof line , a upward flare somewhat like the old Cadillac tail fins. I'll refer to this as the Cadillac Building, looks good to me,
ReplyDeleteOn the way up, noticed the Choctaw's doing a major expansion at Durant facilities.
Next stop Click's Steakhouse, Pawnee Ok. had to wait in line 30 minutes for one of those aged 21 days choice cut steaks, no need for any steak sauce, believe O'Click's left all of the right combinations to his surviving restaurateur's.
The Cliff Swallows did an aerial ballet from their mud dauber nests which were attached to the cross bridges or trestles.
Then we were in Fairfax. H
This thread is now closed. Go to: http://osageblog.blogspot.com/2015/05/osage-shareholder-matters-may-2015.html
ReplyDelete