If the Chief is so sane, why is he asking for the legal strategy of the Mineral Council as if anyone would ever publish this information on a facebook site. It looks like he's foolish and desperate and going in, it's embarrassing and inappropriate that he has so breached protocol in this way and lowered the standard of the Office of the Chiefs. His communications should be published officially and not on Facebook. This isn't even a legitimate back channel to the Minerals Council. This is loose cannon behavior if I've seen it.
As an attorney, he should be fully aware that it is unethical to seek disclosure of privileged communications between the MC and its attorney. Were the MC an individual, you can always ask and a fool may disclose. However, the MC represents the shareholders and could face imprisonment of civil damages for disclosure. The Chief knows this and his asking does seem strange and desperate.
Well, all I see is more of the same. What he is saying is that a person should get their head out of their butt [my words] and think ahead a little bit before filing law suits like the OMC did. The Chief also said "Thinking things through has not been what observation shows has occurred." I totally agree. And if he wants to communicate through social media occasionally, that's just fine too. At least he communicates.
There was no time because the BIA fired in with those CFRs and gave everyone 35 days to comply which was and still is impossible. They waited as long as they possibly could, figuring, I'm sure, the Chief would finally come to his senses which he never did and then they went ahead. He's putting out a lot of smoke and mirrors to cover himself if they lose the court action because he never put in an action to the court that was needed as well. Don't be so easily manipulated. He probably knows he's screwed up big time and is back-pedaling as fast as he can to CHA.
Maybe someone should have asked. It's your opinion that a court action was needed. Coming from a lawyer with 30+ years of experience, it seems that his opinion is that a law suit was not advisable. This lack of communication is breaking the MC's piggy bank (the one with our money in it). I predict that by the end of the MC's fiscal year, all of the $1,000,000 drawdown money will have been used, much extra money will have been taken from S 510 to pay lawyers, and there will be well over $100,000 in outstanding debt to lawyers. You watch.
They did ask. They asked their attorney what the best options were that they had at the time. Calling a halt to this regulatory insanity was the answer and the right thing to do so they did it. If it were frivolous, the Federal Court would have thrown it out. Did you think this new BIA CFR folly that will eventually put 60% of the oil and gas producers out of business, who generate the income you see reflected in your headright check, would be inexpensive to stop? If two members of the U.S. Senate were pleased to see it halted by the Federal Court that also generated a scolding letter from them to the Trustee of our M.E. Trust to halt what the BIA is doing and start over, who am I to think I know better? Of course, you must know better than all of the rest of us put together.
Exactly, the Chief running around saying the MC should publish legal strategy is disingenuous at best and stupid if he believes it. It's my opinion this is back pedaling for political expedience and position, trying to appear like he's the only one on top of the situation. If the MC is victorious he will claim it's only due to his efforts, if they fail it's because they didn't come to him. It's pure politics and nothing else.
As for Geoffrey's claim that filing a law suit may not be smart; what alternative was left? The MC has voted down the CFRs on numerous occasions and voiced their dislike and concerns in several meetings. It all fell on deaf ears. The CFRs were going to be implemented anyway. What would he have the MC do, ask one more time real nice and hope? There was no option left other than filing suit. He know this. Again he's just playing politics.
To the point, someone should have asked Geoffrey his opinion about a filing a law suit, that's incorrect on it's face and in practice. You need an attorney who is impartial in advising you. The Chief is in no way impartial in this matter. He has agendas, goals, and his political life to think about. And I'm not deriding him in this instance, it's a matter of fact as it would be for any Chief. He can't serve as an impartial legal council or even offer a legitimate impartial advice to any part of this government. It's a conflict with his position as Chief.
Besides, it's my belief that the Nation supported the disastrous CFRs. The Nations lackeys Crumb and Yates sure do and it's Crumb that's running to Geoffrey after every meeting anyway. He appoints Crumb to different committees. They seem pretty tight to be in disagreement over something as important and fundamental as the CFRs.
I'd say that's a pretty smart analysis of the situation all the way around. One member of Congress I spoke with directly several weeks ago said that it was a good time to go in and take over the Minerals Estate because the price of oil is so low and the headright payments are down so low as a result that no one will really care. I nearly exploded in reaction at such a delusion. In fact I did. I believe I said and I directed my statement as if it were against the new government line, "Are you going with this, because it's just not TRUE!" This is someone I thought was on the side of the Minerals Council but more and more, I believe all the new government officials besides maybe 5 or 6 of the Minerals Council are in on it. If they persist in this direction and fully support the new CFRs and a hostile government takeover of the Minerals Estate from the members of the Minerals Council who are fighting for the Osage Constitutional right to independence, it will bring the new government down altogether. I am stunned at how cavalier these elected officials are about appropriating your headright income like it's their right to nationalize it when the U.S. Congress put it in the 2004 Reaffirmation Act that the OME, the Trust and the Headright System were to be left alone to run as they always have in the past. I think Geoffrey won't go in to join the lawsuit because then he will have lost any back channel to the BIA and they will stop taking to him altogether. This foolishness of not speaking to the party you owe a fiduciary relationship to by and ACT of the U.S. CONGRESS as amended is so unbelievable and unprofessional, I can hardly believe it's really going on in the modern day. I could understand this 150 years ago but now? If the Executive Branch division of the DOI can't do better than this, Obama should sign an Executive Order to get them into an on the job legal training program about the duties and responsibilities of a fiduciary and what is owned to the beneficiaries of a Trust in a modern day trust relationship and make certain they receive a certificate after having taken a test to prove they fully understand what it all means and how they are supposed to behave toward the beneficiaries at all times. Just because you are sued in Federal Court doesn't mean you can walk off, abandon the duties and responsibilities and play dead.
These are assets tide to the righful Heirs. Owned and bought..can't be touched. No way..and this is why the assets were put into trust..but I do agree.. incompetence is not an excuse or will not be tolerated as we can see what political grandstanding is, Chief.
"These are assets tide to the righful Heirs. Owned and bought..can't be touched." You are 100% correct. However, the problem as I see it is that the Nation and this Chief want to "touch" our asset. They want to take them out and play with 'em. And the the BIA and the DOI are more than happy to let them have it, i guess, thinking it gets them off the hook of responsibility.
This is interesting and begs the question; is the Superintendant of the Osage Agency following the dictates of the Trustee of our Trust, Sally Jewell? Secretary Jewell issues order and guidance on trust relationship http://www.indianz.com/News/2014/014826.asp
(How strange is the timing of this turn of events?) CNN Breaking News Alert, July 19, 2015 10:15:17 PM MDT: An agreement restoring full diplomatic ties between Washington and Havana has gone into effect. Secretary of State John Kerry will be present at a ceremony formally reopening Cuba’s embassy in Washington later Monday.
If the Osage became united once again and if we could not maintain 110% commitment and 100% We the People, we would fail.1% against unity(all it takes is 25 Osage) could and does cause failed future.I would humbly say most of the Osage do not and will not fight other Osage to do or try to do the right thing.Which is why we see many Osage doing their own Osage things.It is pure fact the 1906 act is not safe and if it is not safe then the constitution is not safe.Massive opportunities await the Osage in the modern world,if we dare to become a part of the them.
John we simulated a long time ago...The 1906 Act is safe..it is the Constitution and this de facto govt that is not safe. To many reasons to rewrite the Constitution. And yes this Gov with one phone call can come down as well. Thats all it takes..and as you can see after 9yrs has been a Govt for the Govt and not for the Osage People or their Communities. This is no accident or a coincidence. And if I have it correct, how did we become Gov? We had are administrative body, The M.C a Chief and a AP Chief per the 1906 Act. And yes we had Osages that were not members or had a vote. Yet the premise was to do the right thing and allow them membership so they to could be recognized for other Federal programs. Not just that we also know that everyone did not get there vote to make this dream a reality for the 1% . To become a Gov. This is no accident. This put in simple terms. There used to be synchronicity, harmony, stories to live by, now you have Govt of lies..so more or less many of us are tired of the long winded stories coming from this Administration. The lack of communication is no surprise as to it is no surprise our Govt is and now predictable why? Mirroring exactly like The U.S . This was not what the Osage wanted and this is why it will cave..The more I become more savy in Indian Law..much can be disputed..The Nation can come to a stand still as the M.E has endured thus far in the last year. There are huge conflicts that exists, huge ethical behavior that needs to be addressed and not swept under the carpet..huge cronyism. Time to hold those accountable.
I'm not sure how much unity there ever was but be that as it may, great strides could be made toward unity if the Nation would quit trying to inject itself into the running of the Mineral Estate and quit trying to take ownership of the Mineral Estate. Pretty simple.
The Nation has literally every other way there is to make money and spend it. Their single-mindedness with regard to getting their hands on our asset is the cause of disagreements and law suits. The Nation, since it's inception, has done nothing but attack the shareholders at every turn. All we as shareholders have done is try to look after our assets.
As shareholders we are called greedy, we are called lazy, and we are called uncaring. We are cast as wanting to ruin the Nation. We are portrayed as uncooperative ogres holding back the potential of the Nation. This just because we have inherited a share and don't want the Nation taking it or running it's value into the ground.
I am always very wary of those in this tribe that call for unity. It seems the only unity they are willing to accept is if you unit behind them.
Truth has been told here BIG TIME. Thank you! Truth has been told here BIG TIME. Thank you! Truth has been told here BIG TIME. Thank you! Truth has been told here BIG TIME. Thank you! Truth has been told here BIG TIME. Thank you! Truth has been told here BIG TIME. Thank you!
More encroachment -->> Osage County plans advanced for 2nd wind farm http://examiner-enterprise.com/news/local-news/osage-county-plans-advanced-2nd-wind-farm
With the OCC you will have the Oklahoma Courts too with jurisdiction in Osage County. It's a clever in, so we need to be careful about letting in the OCC anywhere in OC: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/01/us/oklahoma-court-rules-homeowners-can-sue-oil-companies-over-quakes.html?_r=3
Well. This could wind up being the biggest boon for oil and gas in Osage County. As long as every county in OK may be under threat of a lawsuit by the home or landowner or both for earthquakes, Osage County will be exempt as long as the government of Oklahoma has no oil and gas jurisdiction because of the Federally held Osage income trust. Osage oil and gas men who now have leases may prove to be the luckiest oil and gas men in the State of Oklahoma. How is that for a turn of good fortune and a twist of fate?
Five of the eight Osage Mineral Council members were found guilty today in the Osage trial court of violations of the nation's ethics laws. Everett Waller, Cynthia Boone, Stephanie Erwin, Joe Cheshewalla and Kathryn Red Corn were found guilty of failing to file documents concerning receipt of gifts during 2013. Their lawyer (the council's lawyer) said the decision will be appealed.
For a dang blanket they all got when they were elected and they let those Pawhuska Village Board men run off with $806,000? You've got a sick and twisted tribal court system, you know that?
Yeah.....while Crumb Yates and Abbot are hell bent on violating and ignoring the 1906 Act to serve the ME on a silver platter to the ONG. Priorities are upside down and backwards. I wonder if this will be used to punish and remove these five people and replace them with ONG operatives to kill the Shareholder estate. No doubt those serving the ONG will use this as propaganda to further their cause.
Of course. Why do you think the Chief is riding herd on them just like Jim Gray did with all those lawsuits against the Osage Congress to get his way all the time. Chief SB wants to take over the Minerals Estate on behalf of the Osage Nation and crush the Minerals Council members who will not let him go along with it even though he has no Constitutional ground where the Minerals Estate is concerned. He's just another lawyer working behind the scenes with enough power to move the Osage Court to go in his direction. Ethics rules and regulations are within the Minerals Council's purview as mandated by the Osage Nation Constitution in Article XV, Section 4, Paragraph 3.
I agree. Osage Congress has their own rules and ethics committee and they are an independent branch of government from the Executive. Framers made certain that Chiefs in the future couldn't run the Minerals Agency and the Minerals Council around like the carpet sweeper and made them independent in the governing document as a constitutional protection. Chief is like those way smart velociraptors in Jurassic Park constantly testing the fences.
Govt. Loves division. But noted is the fact he (SB) can't touch this. and it appears the snakes in the M.C have been made out, only by truth. Or is this much more of the same cronyism. However the Shareholders have to decide their fate..it would have been different had the M.C followed the laws of the Nation, and in good faith at least represent that good faith for the Shareholders and submitted to the ethics law and or if they would have come out and protest publicly why they felt different of the issue? These are elected officials and we cannot have the appearances of impropriety,we do not want to go forward with the precedent, what will be the Policy for this behavior? However big or small the Gift or who gave it. Still needs to be claimed. The M.C is smartter than this and under whos direction is this coming from? Oh, thats right the Lawyer who works for the M.C I tought the Lawyer worked for the M.E? So we have a lawyer in conflict of interest?This is the 21st Century. The Games need to stop...it does not matter if the drawdown is being used? It is the M.E paying for your incompetence M.C members. Nah, the Shareholders expect nothing but exceptionalism from their elected officials, when in a position like this you do not have the Luxury of being secret of your intentions. You are a Public Figure. So, one begs to ask why is this behavior being tolerated period? Not at the expense to the M.E if they lose the appeal they should pay for the costs of the Lawyer and what ever expences incurred to be sure this tpye of behavior will not occur again..why? This is to protect them from this type of behavior otherwise could be construed as to how future outcomes can be effected. Mr Waller speaker what do you have to say on behalf of your behavior to the Shareholders?
Embarrassing problem??? What embarrassment? There is nothing embarrassing here. All the MC is doing is saying the Mineral Estate isn't going to cower in the face of the Chief's over-reach of authority.
The Chief has to explain why he is legally on the attack. Do you think Poland needed to have an elected official blow a whistle in the middle of the Blitzkrieg to make a statement as to why they were defending themselves when Hitler attacked them? Try and think once in a while if you please.
I'm a shareholder that also is against the chiefs take over. As for Katherine's silly notion, this is why we did not vote for her. The last time she was in the MC, she was for Jim Gray's take over. She's like a snake in the grass! It's hard to understand that there's Osages that are soo blind. Is this Osageblogger also on the same page as Katherine?
"...it would have been different had the M.C followed the laws of the Nation, and in good faith at least represent that good faith for the Shareholders and submitted to the ethics law..."
Every time the OMC bends to the will of the Nation on any issue it can be interpreted as capitulation or, worse still, seen as agreement with the Nation's takeover of the Mineral Estate. I for one don't want them to put the shareholders in that position.
Thats an old excusr poster 3:02. I feel the huge narrative and it has to be addressed. Its a huge monkey on our back. But we cannot endorse laws to be broken. Either way..the appeals Court will not rule differently. It would be like, I was Jay walking and knew it yet I did what I wanted knowing the law was here to protect me..still got a ticket..and thou there was no traffic, I still broke the law..We are at an age ole scholl soes not work with the times because some of us are smart to know the difference , between harassment and following the law...The Chief weather you like it or not is subject to these laws and our Mineral Council is subject as well...we know this much the Chief will call it another day until another Chief steps in and he will probably get wise and communicate with the Council..and learn not what to do but what you can do .as a team.
If an individual or council, in this case, believe the law is in error, and if a legislature is unwilling to address or see it as a problem then the law must be broken to be challenge. If the law is followed it doesn't get challenged in court and it stands.
It's akin to Rosa Parks refusing to sit in the back of the bus. Technically she broke the law. That was, however, the only way to get the issue to court and have it addressed.
Hardly, akin to Segregation...value judgement was not used and is not the social norm to resist a law so simple to conply and for more than one reason it should be followed to avoid any and all impropriety. The real Monkey is trust. The Law can be amended through the legal processes, because really the hurdle for success is trust. Freedom comes at a price and has a structure. The law sets boundries to confine and protect. And in this case this case the Philosophy would be time to change, because every step forward will the steps to success be counted based on trust. From the Nation to the M.C
P.S.... It did not work for the M.C going to Court, and I could have told the M.C other wise, I do understand your point getting it to the Court...but the Opinion is of the same it is going to be rejected at the Appellate Court. To many reasons to object. Common sense is required..I wonder about the Lawyer we have working for the M.E..the Tug of War must stop. The only way at this point is damage control..throw the M.C in the Back Ground as a Board of Directors. Put the Leadership with skills in the Petroleum field and build a structure away from the M.C though they will have the final approval as structureed by the 1906 Act. Then let the Chief and the Council play tug a war in their back yards not on the M.E..now. this is structure. Gone are the ways of doing business the old way..
The premise would be to become a force to be reckoned with to establish, till then the Nation will keep on trying to inject their opinion, and the Shareholder's will be there to expect nothing less. So really on some fronts we are all on the same page and their is only one way to succeed. The M.C has only one way to go is up...or?
Comment about a rock permit being transferrred to the Oklahoma Department of Mines? An assignment of lease discussed on this situation as well. The conversation is unclear. And a change in how MC approves assignments with a resolution of the MC instead of the letter sent by the Chair of the MC.
Discussion was very animated on a motion to meet with the Chief. It failed. The vote was 2 for, 2 against, and three abstentions with Galen Crum absent due to family illness as reported by Chairman Waller.
Paul Revard is speaking but I can't make out hardly a word. Problem with lease paperwork and who the BIA will work with as an individual or a Corporation then on to the Corp of Engineers to come into the lease because the landowner won't allow access. I believe they said the COE said he can't drill and do you know who we are? So this goes back to the Agency Superintendant and then need an injunction. Finally get ingress and egress established and can go in but can't get off the main road? Something...no access so want money back on appeal of the lease. Then on to the approved drilling permit. To heck with the appeal and can only stake the location for the well and 30 days left to file a second appeal and if can't get your money back but can get your $10.00. Will lose the lease and no money back?
When this is finally posted for on demand listening via the internet, this is a MUST LISTEN MEETING at https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/minerals-council/meeting-information MC is now taking a break.
James, it sounds like the ball is entirely out of the MC's court. I had quite a time listening because he is so rightfully angry that I could hardly understand him, but this is an ingress and egress matter that the BIA has let in the door with the EPA requirements before the Donalson/Friend lawsuit is even settled in Federal Court.
James, how could the MC be of help when no intervention on their part with the BIA seems to make any difference. Now they won't respond to any shareholder request from any representative from the MC other than the Chairman, if I understood it correctly.
If Waller won't agree to other MC member requests for information from the BIA then they won't go forward at all so this effectively denudes every other member elected to serve on the MC but Chairman Waller on the part of the BIA.
Hepsi Barnett, I warned you back in early 2006 that this Constitutional form of government would ruin the Osage Minerals Estate and the income to the Headright owners and here it is in black and white. If this was your underlying agenda from the outset, you have been successful and today's Minerals Council meeting is proof positive of it. If this is what you intended to accomplish, you have indeed brought the ball over the goal line today. What I didn't foresee then is that your new government would eventually risk bringing down the economy of the whole of Osage County. I suppose you will also have to thank the Harvard Project for helping to facilitate your goal because together you two have certainly accomplished it today.
Two other things mentioned in the meeting today; 1) The lawsuit against the MC has now been turned into a declaratory judgement as to whether the MC is under the Osage Nation and 2) The BIA is operational with the trust relationship being with the beneficiaries, in other words, with the U.S. and the Headright owners. A sentence was read out of the Federal Register that "The Minerals Council is empowered to conduct business for the Minerals Estate."
I think I heard Cynthia say something about the Osage Nation has got no business in our business. Why the hell dont he mind after his own chunk of it thats in just as big a mess as the minerals. Knocking the minerals council for a loop all the time only takes away from the mess on the nations side and he has more than enough to do to fix that if he even can. Hes only making things that much worse for the headrrite owners and he should get out of it now. Devlop what? These new Chiefs of the CONst govt have meddled so much already theyve almoost lost the whole damn thing. Gray, the Red Eagle they threw out and now this lawyer who cant stop himself from finishing us off. Get away from the minerals and stay away you damn fools before therres nothing left.
$495,086 in attorneys fees? This is a little tiny Tribe with 19,000 members? Who do we go to find out if we are being billed properly by all these law firms being read out? It sounds like we are being taken advantage of. This is huge.
Are we talking about the Army Corps of Engineers? Where is Vince logan? How is the Trust Relationship working for th ed Osage? Got News Vince Logan after 4 yrs its not!
I tried to listen to the meeting live. If I read it right, 6 others were trying. If our Headright checks don't go up, I am affraid I won't be able to afford the asprin needed to listen to the 'Joke of Quality' audio. I've heard and seen better media of first graders plays on the web. Talk over each other, turn up the volume to hear, then everyone laughs at what I don't know. It doesn't seem these are laughing times. But what do I know, I am just a Shareholder who tries to be better informed by listening to XXXXed up sounding meeting!
Tell me why it has taken our MC well over a year after Gentner Drummond filed the Donelson lawsuit to get our money out of the Drummond bank? Then, keep telling me how smart this MC is.
Hold on right there. The Nation moved the money to this bank and may still have the Treasury assets there today. There was some discussion about the signature cards for the Nation not letting the MC even on the accounts themselves. The Nation has no business running the MC business and should be held off by a country mile. For these reasons: $19 million lost on the Osage, LLC. $30 million cost overruns on the two casinos being investigated. 3 times what should have been paid on the Pawhuska Arbor. 1 1/2 times what should have been paid on the Grayhorse Arbor. $450,000 or so returned to the Feds for grant money unaccounted for by the Osage Nation properrly. $806,000 misappropriated by the Pawhuska Village 5 Man Board the Nation just had to take away from the MC to run by itself. Instead of the Chief cleaning up these messes he runs off to play with the Southern Utes and the Jicarria Apache to try and take over the Minerals Council's Constitutional right to develop and administer the Minerals Estate. The Osage Nation, like that gal in the Minerals Council said today, the Osage Nation has proven it has, "GOT NO BUSINESS IN OUR BUSINESS." If you are so disaffected as to believe that the Osage Nation will do better than the Minerals Council, then you are the biggest fool on the planet. LOOK at the FACTS if you even can. If not leave it to the MC and get to praying that the Chief will bug off and start taking care of the messes he already has on his plate right now.
This is what the Osage Nation does with its business plus throw out a Chief. The Minerals Council as leaders on the team brought $155,136 per headright to the Shareholders from the Highest Posted Price lawsuit. Now who do you want transacting business for your Mineral Estate? The Nation who can't pour rainwater out of a boot where business is concerned or the Minerals Council who has been fighting for its life every day since the Nation was formed and the Nation has been spending all this time on the Minerals Council trying to take it over instead of paying attention to its own assets and businesses. You will have a total disaster if they come in to run things and if you don't know that you do now.
I have been posting here and I have posted back when the Osage Shareholder site was up. I cannot say enough without a doubt on both fronts I am pissed...behaving like children will cost...This was not the intent the Nation has come to..let the Administration dispute this? The whistles will come Chief.
Who do we hear about when something goes wrong? The Osage Nation. When we hear of a screw up who do we hear about? The Osage Nation. When there is money lost, misappropriated, overspent, spent foolishly, or spent ridiculously who do we hear about? The Osage Nation. THE Osage Nation. THE OSAGE Nation. THE OSAGE NATION! Do you get it now? Have I explained it clearly enough?
Can no one explain why our money has been left in the Drummond bank? They talked about moving it months ago, but I guess it's still there, making pennies for us and dollars for Drummond. This is stupidity, ignorance, and laziness in the 3rd degree.
Hold on to your hat. Better late than never and you really can't see the larger issue here can you? If the Nation has $30,000,000 of claimed assets still there why aren't you bellyaching about that? The Nation may not even let them move the money. Why aren't you having a hissy fit about that? Well?
Who is making excuses? These are the facts. Don't obsess over your Minerals Council. There are enough elected officials in the Osage Nation government doing that already and neither one of you are getting the money from Minerals income trust. Sorry. Try and start pressing the Osage Nation for the money you want. They owe it to you. The Minerals Estate Trust doesn't and it never will.
You forgot to mention the gift shop that bought and paid for $250,000 to $350,000, a gross overpayment, from the Trumblys for inventory and then ultimately failed. A footnote is the old store was reopened by the Trumblys again later and I think they are still open now. Don't forget the Palace Grocery that the Nation was done with after how many thousands upon thousands of dollars were dropped and then recently reopened with another $250,000. Will this time be a failure too? We'll find out in the fall if and when they come crawling back for more money to keep that long running appropriation negligence of Osage Nation funds flowing in the same direction.
With such a lousy business track record, the Osage Nation has a hell of a nerve to even look at the Mineral Estate. A hell of a nerve to even think about going into the oil business. Clean up you own side of the barn and then start making money with the ventures you've already got and after 10 more years then do a 25 year plan and in 35 years with some success under your belt with much easier business ventures than oil and gas, then maybe think about going into the oil business.
You both have it right..it is the M.C that is Empowered to do business and simply put. We have the choice to do business with One's or not. At this point it is a huge disappointment how this has became a huge Conflict of Interest because the Chief just endorsed bigger Government. And had he sat with the M.C and said to them look, I have been approached and I think had this been fortuitous and not by design, just maybe this could have developed into a Great Business relationship..It is to easy to see the what is behind and under the covers with the Ute. This has me very concerned what is going on with our EXECUTIVE. SB remember who you work for. But now we see the Greed of the Nation. Grandstanding is not making us money...At the Nation you all are Culpable. This just stinks to kingdom come.Next subject...Everyone knows that a Grocery Store is a voluminous business and the profit Margin is 1%. (Funny how I keep on seeing that numder posted from time to time on this site) most important was there a Marketing Analysis done in the area? Was the Demographics really scrutinized accurately? The average American will spen 10% of their income...lets say, your take home is $4000, your monthly grocery bill will be $400 a month and that is only counting two in your household The only way the store will make money is creative marketing..70% markup on greeting cards if not more in your area that you live in to such things as batteries, magazines and you get the picture of the example I gave you...I used to work in the retail service industry..was there a traffic count? Just because it sounds good does not mean it will work..Now I believe the owner saw an opportunity and took it..and in this economy its hard pressed not to survive. Everyone will feel the effects of the on slaughter on the Energy Sector..We've got to Green Giants sitting in Positions that are pushing their agenda and the truth be known fossil fuel will never go away..And the mere fact how many Corporattions are being subsidized by the green energy thru tax credits as they are boondoggles. That money, the tax payers are on the hook for..Osage Wind sold us out to the company Enel what do we know about that deal and where did the money go? Lease deals usually get 6000 to 8000 dollars per turbine. Man the long winded stories. Not tales but factual. Do the diligence, not just an Eye Sore..like I said our Government needs to take care of their House because I'm gunning for a re- write of the Constitution and for building a stronger fortress with the community and most importantly building the trust of our People in a system that works for them and not into the Lawyer Nation we have become..the truth always reveals itself.
Just last Wednesday the Council voted to not reach out to the Chief, in spite of Kathryn Red Corn's desperate plea. This is the attitude shown the Chief. And after being rejected and snubbed by MC3 for months now, I'm sure he's tired of reaching out to them. He will probably just go ahead and do what ever needs to be done concerning the ME. It seems to have started last year sometime when the Council would not allow the Chief's representative to sit in executive session.
And the Representative was who? Redcorn? And what was the reasoning for the decision by the Council to not allow the Representative? I could understand why if it wasn't Redcorn the decision behind this. And why was the Chief not there to begin with per the 1906 Act..he is apart of the Council, the tie breaker? So why are paramount decisions being msde without the tie breaker the Chief.
So it is true. The Bigheart Times has a lead article in today's issue titled, "Chief: Keep OCC paws off trust" The OCC referred to is the Oklahoma Corporations Commission and the article goes on to say that the Chief while on business will get to the bottom of what is going on with the faction of the Osage Producers Association wanting to go in this direction. When he returns, hopefully we will get an official report as to what is going on. Also of important note, there is new legislation this week put forward by Senator Lankford: S.1818 — 114th Congress (2015-2016) A bill to amend title 5, United States Code, to reform the rule making process of agencies. S.1820 — 114th Congress (2015-2016) A bill to require agencies to publish an advance notice of proposed rule making for major rules.
There is no "faction" of the Osage Producers Association attempting to allow the OCC to remove the BIA from governing Osage County. Talking with producers, the only thing that has arisen is that the OPA would like the BIA to incorporate some OCC regulations. One specific item is bonding. The OCC requires $25K, regardless of the well count. This would surely be more palatable to the small producer than the $5K/well that the BIA is trying to ram down the throats of the Osage operators.
Of course it is an Oklahoma county, but the State of Oklahoma does not have any jurisdiction over Osage County oil and gas operations. Unfortunately, Osage County oil and gas operations is governed by the BIA.
Has anybody looked at what the OCC requires compared to our regulations? Why would a company come to drill for production? Over regulating when they (DOI) just holds the trust thats it. This is bought land..by the Osage before we were recognized Federally. let me ask this question what does it mean when the Federal Register says the M.C is empowered? The authoriy or power to do something...So as people, I often thought for a long time what it meant to be Sovereign, and the Intent. It is incumbent the Shareholder's hold those accountable. Sovereign, together as a people. As long as there is a division with in our M.C the best interests of the M.E is compromised and the Long Term affect is why we are here today..we have huge trust isseues that if we were Structured and lived by the word of the 1906 Act , had we had leadership defined by direction, this is the 21st Century..blunders is not the word, more like a Barrage..
The state of Ok is about to put a 1 year moratorium on salt water and waste injection disposal in 29 counties due to earthquake worries. We currently have no earthquake problems in the Osage, but if we aren't careful and if we fail to regulate injection here, we could wind up living with a moratorium, too. Just try producing oil in Osage county with no disposal wells. It can't be done. We need to stay far, far away from Oklahoma's negligent, understaffed, and ineffective OCC.
We've been recognized Federally since the time of Thomas Jefferson. The land for the reservation was purchased by the Osage Tribe with a Trustee's Deed. "...,in trust for the use and benefit of the Osage...Indians." It is a trustees deed for the purchase of a reservation, not a single family detached home, a multifamily home, a commercial property, a ranch, a farm etc. It is a deed for a RESERVATION. It is listed in the chain of title and furthermore, if it's not legally acknowledged in the modern day then all of the land and the mineral rights together will revert back to the Cherokee Tribe of Indians from whom the land was originally purchased. Be happy with what you've got or suffer the consequences. I'm sure the Cherokee Tribe or Nation or whatever it's known by these days would love to have back the legal ownership of the whole of Osage County. It would be their land, a new reservation for them with no jurisdiction of anyone other than the Cherokee government. How does that sound to you?
Warrior right, lawyer up. I agree John, our Culture and who we are as a people we must put on our coat of honor. We can be the Warrior again. Restore our foundation to build a Unity.. Government can't do that, Government cannot create Sovereignty. But as a people we can do this..This Reality that the trust deed, and intent is exactly right. And yes we were Recognized a long time ago..Knowledge is a tool. The true story is we as a people, Osage , can make the necessary changes.
This is a must read. First and foremost take a look at Pawhuska BIA agency the tribe, the tribe Vince Logan is a member of and you all can tell us what is going wrong, how poorly it is ran at a administration level poorly, so now you have the National Commission on Indian trust administration and reform called on the on the DOI to consider a " sunset" of the OST. Transfer all duties back to the BIA. Really stupid thought. It's not going to happen... according to Kevin Washburn his opinion the BIA is not broken. Lol who are they kidding? All of them..All eyes are watching Vince Logan.
Maybe it was a protest absence. He gets about quite a bit and shows his face all over the country. Why with the BIA getting such bad reports from stem to stern the U.S. Congress would want them to take back the accounting and disbursement of trust funds I have no idea. I guess it's a cost savings to the Federal Government but it lead them into two major lawsuits in the past and that's not so good.
Right, its not funny, the DOI stil has a family member of mine MIA still, yet the Agency has his current address, see a problem? This is a good Idea that this Agency go back to what it was originally by design as a Liason to...
I have a question for any of you that are knowledgeable about Osage oil and gas mining leases. Up until several years ago, the Osage oil and gas mining leases were auctioned and sold to the highest bidder. The "Osage Tribe of Indians" was named in the oil and gas lease, as Lessors and the successful bidder was named, as the Lessee of this legal instrument. The royalties were paid to the BIA for the distribution to the Shareholders. Now, the oil and gas leases name the "Osage Nation", as the Lessor. Can someone explain why the change was made to the oil and gas lease?
I'm not an attorney but I have had it explained that the Osage Nation was the government formed with the Constitution in 2006. It then came to become the legal survivor in interest and successor in interest to all that the Osage Tribe owned up to that point, hence the name change on the oil and gas leases.
To the poster at 9:09 AM. You've made an astute observation. Within the definitions of 25 CFR § 226.1 the term Osage Minerals Council has been changed to read "means the duly elected governing body of the Osage Nation or Tribe of Indians of Oklahoma vested with authority to enter into leases or take other actions on oil and gas mining and other marketable products pertaining to the Osage mineral estate." This change in the regulations is inconsistent with Public Law 108-431, which authorized the Osage Tribe to determine its own form of government and its membership. This law contains the provision "that the rights of any person to Osage mineral estate shares are not diminished thereby." The term Osage Minerals Council should clearly state that it is the governing body elected solely by those holding headrights in the Osage Minerals Estate. All prior references to Osage Tribal Council have been changed to Osage Minerals Council, but it is the change in statutory definition of Osage Minerals Council which is important. BIA states that the change was made because "the Osage Tribal Council no longer exists."
There is another provision at 25 CFR § 226.35 which permits the Principal Chief to take actions for "speak for a person of unsound mind or feeble understanding" when the BIA Superintendent determines there is no one else deemed to be a "proper party."
As currently structured, the Osage Minerals Council is the Osage Nation government within the BIA regulations. Furthermore, it is a subordinate body of the Osage Nation government pursuant to the Osage Nation Constitution. These document serve to wrest control of the Minerals Estate from the shareholders and grant control to the Osage Nation, a situation which certainly has the capacity to diminish the rights protected by PL 108-431.
25 CFR PART 226—LEASING OF OSAGE RESERVATION LANDS FOR OIL AND GAS MINING http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=3d6d1d79a7f3f0fddd0918dfd91e9d89&mc=true&node=pt25.1.226&rgn=div5
Osage Mineral Negotiated Rulemaking - BIA Docket ID: BIA-2013-0003 http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketDetail;D=BIA-2013-0003
Federal Register, Vol 78, No 167 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-08-28/pdf/2013-20764.pdf
Public Law 108-431 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-108publ431/pdf/PLAW-108publ431.pdf
Ray McClain just posted another letter and it is exactly what I said The M.C are using the General Attorney for the Estate as their personal lawyer and they should be using their own personal defense lawyer to represent them in the ethics case...this is not about the M.E but personal belief that we are a separate entity but no one is above the ehtics when it comes to elected officials and are not above the law. Like I said we should not expect nothing less when it comes to representing the M.E Unbelievable.
As usual, Ray McClain is daft. These Mineral Council members were operating in their capacity as government officials and any gifts they may have received were given because they are members of the Minerals Council. They have the right to be represented by an attorney of their choice and it's their general attorney not the attorney general of the Osage Nation who they have chosen to represent them. Next he will be asking them for full disclosure on the Christmas presents they received last year and the year before that.The BIA Court has nothing whatsoever to do with the internal workings of the Constitutional government of the Osage Nation and any independent boards, commissions, enterprises, or the Minerals Council itself. That's like saying because the government of Uganda recognizes the United States of America as the single recognized entity for the Americans any independent agency of the government has to abide by the same rules of ethics. Ask the CIA if the same rules of ethics apply to how they do business overseas and if they will even give you answer, I'm sure it might come as a surprise, especially if they were to tell you the truth. Sometimes he says things that are so ridiculously absurd it's stunning.
It does not matter the point is the facts are and will still be the same..no matter the spin.and what has to be done remains the same. As a Shareholder I want a M.C we can trust.
8:31 PM, you pointed out the problem exactly when you said “These Mineral Council members were operating in their capacity as government officials and any gifts they may have received were given because they are members of the Minerals Council.” That’s the reason for this law being in the books.
Thats why I said in some of my earlier posts...it isn't business any longer the same way..Change needs to come in a big way..Oil prices are as low as back in 2008 compounded by? Well, that goes without saying we know what is going on...not just that,recognizing when change needs to happen..it is our Sovereign right to enforce what needs to happen...This is an Estate that needs to be ran like a multi billion dollar estate...and no one is above the Law.
We vest in the M.C the fiduciary responsibility to act accordingly. This is not happening by a few...we will seek replacement of the few members but we want a new Lawyer for the Estate...as well...we need to rid the cancer and get a working team not an arm chair coach.
Nothing as far as I can tell but I'm not sure I know what a campaign voucher is as I've never heard of it before. The poster removed the comment him/herself. If you register and join Google you have more posting functions available to you as a member. Deleting comments is one of them.
Thank you. Intersting. It has to do with how you report your financial support in your campaign. Who is donating to your campaign. It regulates so corruption or eliminates it by disclosure if I have right.
The Osage Nation Election Office should have that information for the candidates in the General Election. The Minerals Council has its own set of promulgated rules and runs its own separate election and I'm not sure if the candidates have the same reporting requirements or not. I suspect that they don't have the same reporting requirements. Now here we have a perfect example of the schizophrenia of the Osage Nation where the Minerals Council and the Minerals Agency are concerned. They have "allowed" the MA and MC to conduct their own separate election, promulgating their own rules with their own separate election process and precedent has been set with these separate elections. The Osage Nation Election law has affirmed this and the Constitution guarantees and mandates that the MC also has the right to promulgate its own rules and regulations, separate and apart from the Osage Nation. The Osage Nation Constitution is the governing document and is the "law of the land." Any legislation that becomes law can be changed by further legislation. The Constitution cannot be changed without a vote of the Osage people. The Nation is going way out on a limb here in its constant effort to try and undo the protections provided and mandated by the Constitution for the Mineral Agency and the Minerals Council. I would like to see full disclosure for all the court costs and attorneys fees on both sides for this questionably legal "foxhunt" litigation and all this hullabaloo when one member of the Minerals Council has reported a gift of one blanket and one ham. If we were talking $806,000 then that would be another story but we wouldn't want Osages hurt by having to deal with the consequences of their actions in that case (still before the Court) now would we? Schizophrenic isn't it?
One blanket and one ham pales to what is really going on here..just a waste of time and money? What a poor person would give to have a Blanket or a slice of ham? Man people are hurting znd this is how we do it...shame shame I know your Name...all of your names. This is so heavy handed. Yep, you bet I want to see how much?
Chief Standingbear has decided to charge the shareholders for certain functions that have been performed free of charge in the past. Ac- counting pays our bills, the IT dept. provides technical computer support and the janitor provides cleaning services. Beginning October 1 the shareholders will be charged for these services and others unless we contract these ourselves.
A hearing for the declaratory judgment lawsuit against the Osage Minerals Council (OMC)is scheduled for a hearing on July 20. Only 6 of the OMC are effected because the two OMC who are employees, Andrew Yates and Talee Redcorn provided information to the court to get them excused from action taken against them as members of the OMC. This case is also referred to as ethics.
The OMC voted not once but twice not to sign a memorandum of understanding with the BIA regarding an environmental impact committee project. Councilman Galen Crum chose not to uphold the OMC vote. He went to the chief and was placed on the committee to represent the Osage Nation not the headright owners. In the past G. Crum has been called a carpetbagger. One of my constituents said he was guilty of treason. As I recall he first ran for congress but failed. His loyalty does not appear to be with the OMC.
We all voted to join the oil producers to hire someone to do research for a categoric exclusion regarding the American Burying Beetle, which adversely affects the drilling permit process. The Osage County landowners, who have the BLM wild mustangs, received a categoric exclusion from the beetle. It just made sense for us to try to get an exclusion too.
Six of the OMC voted to take legal action against the Dept. of Interior and Bureau of Indian affairs regarding the new rules for oil and gas. We filed an injunction in federal court. The oil producers also filed an injunction. The judge, Greg Frizzell, has combined the two. As a result, the new rules did not go into effect July 10 as scheduled. There will be a hearing on August 10. These new rules appear to threaten the future of oil and gas production in Osage County. As you know, less production means less money on our payment checks. Andrew Yates and Galen Crum voted against taking this action.
We voted on a "no confidence" resolution on the Bureau of Indian Affairs superintendent. Everett Waller abstained, Andrew Yates and Galen Crum voted "no".
We voted to honor our headright owner, Marguerite Dennison, when she turned 100 in May. We had a delightful time at her home in Cleveland, full of family, friends and representatives of the OMC. Andrew Yates abstained on the vote, which is a "no" vote.
Any opinions expressed above are mine and are not representative of the whole council. As always, copies of any of the above information is available upon request. You can reach me by telephone at home: 918-287-2920 or by cell: 918-698-3314.
Trending in the Energy sector Halliburton a major playler in the oil field services will be laying off 27,000 employees. Oil prices are still dropping. A total thus far since 2014 350,000 lost jobs Where is the help now and why isn't this being talked about...Housing industry at a 35 yr low..and you call thia a robust economy...I like how shillies sorry I don't think I spelled his name right, from Yale a Professor in what says he blames the economics of the situation as cultural and social media has changed people's values is a crock of you know what...over regulation has crippled and stagnation is on the rise if the feds raise the rates...to soon to high..My point is now we cut our loses move ahead and get these monkeys off our backs. 2015 the latter part of the year prices will edge higher and from this point on till 2017..into the beginning of 2018. Supply and demand. Now is a buying time for Gold..buy buy buy! If you can..what comes down will go up and what we are seeing is no accident. My bet prices will drop lower before we see it edge higher...hang in there everyone.
Anonymous July 28, 2015 at 12:40 PM With the OCC you will have the Oklahoma Courts too with jurisdiction in Osage County. It's a clever in, so we need to be careful about letting in the OCC anywhere in OC: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/01/us/oklahoma-court-rules-homeowners-can-sue-oil-companies-over-quakes.html?_r=3
osageblogger July 28, 2015 at 2:25 PM Well. This could wind up being the biggest boon for oil and gas in Osage County. As long as every county in OK may be under threat of a lawsuit by the home or landowner or both for earthquakes, Osage County will be exempt as long as the government of Oklahoma has no oil and gas jurisdiction because of the Federally held Osage income trust. Osage oil and gas men who now have leases may prove to be the luckiest oil and gas men in the State of Oklahoma. How is that for a turn of good fortune and a twist of fate?
I'm afraid you will see just how long State law will have no jurisdiction if we start having earthquakes and tearing down buildings and hurting or killing people in the Osage. This is why our disposal operations must be strictly watched. If not, we could be the next ones to get shut down. This can be avoided if we are careful. We just don't need the State to do it.
This is Native American Tribal business with trust status involvement. The State would have to deal with the Federal government because they don't have jurisdiction in Osage County. The Feds are not subject to State laws in this matter. Where do you get this idea and cite the case where this has taken place with verifiable references, please.
You need look no further than the Tribal-State Gaming Compact Between the Osage Nation and the State of Oklahoma to see that the Osage Nation has recognized the authority of the State of Oklahoma when it comes to jurisdiction within Osage County. There are additional agreements, such as the Agreement for Cooperative Enforcement and Cross-Deputization by and Between the Osage Nation, the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the State of Oklahoma, et. al., the Tobacco Tax Compact, etc.
The Cross-Deputization Agreement most clearly defines the surface area under Osage Nation and/or Federal control. It delineates what is defined as Indian Country in the term Geographic Location on page 2, and this definition is consistent with Federal law wherein the term Indian Country is defined at 18 U.S.C. § 1151.
As States are sovereign nations in their own right in all matters where powers are not ceded the Constitution of the United States, it retains authority to enforce its laws within its borders.
Even the Osage Nation Constitution recognize limitations of sovereignty to the territory to lands under its control. The case of Osage Nation v. Constance Irby, et. al. resulted in a determination that the reservation had been disestablished and not just diminished. Furthermore, the filing of two recent cases involving Osage LLC in an Oklahoma court shows the Osage Nation's deference to the laws of the State of Oklahoma in matters occurring outside the boundaries of Indian Country, as the complaints are based on violation of Oklahoma Statutes.
While it is without question that the rights to the Minerals Estate are reserved to the Osage Tribe, it is also without question that the State of Oklahoma may enforce its laws on all lands where Federal authority take precedence (e.g., lands meeting the statutory definition of Indian Country).
Finally, and most importantly, any lawsuit resulting from oil production would be brought against the producers and not the Osage Nation. There is no question of sovereignty, as the producers are private commercial entities which cannot assert claims of sovereignty. If by their acts, whether within or without Indian Country, are believed to cause harm to others not on Indian Lands then the matter would subject to dispute in an Oklahoma Court.
I agree with 8:20 about the jurisdictional points particularly that the producers are the ones that suit would be brought against. However, I don't see how they could hope to prove their case. Oklahoma has natural faults and at least the most recent quakes have originated, I believe it was, three to six miles down. Sounds like another boon for the media and attorneys at the cost of everyone else.
So then explain the complexity of the implications of the Federally Held ME income Trust where the income and minerals estate are concerned. We're not talking about gaming here, or the ON Police force including tobacco. If what you are suggesting is true then the Feds would never have gone to Court on the wind farm issue. There is no established governance of the Minerals Estate other than by the Feds through the BIA. At one meeting, the BIA told reps from the State of OK that the Osages had run their Minerals Estate for 100 years and will continue to do so. There is a jurisdiction here and the BIA along with the Osages have it in Osage County where the reserved mineral rights and the Trust are involved.
Most of the saltwater disposal wells (SWD) and enhanced oil recovery (EOR) injections wells inject saltwater into the same depleted reservoirs that oil and saltwater have been produced from. Many of these injection wells receive the saltwater being injected on a vacuum and others at low injection pressures and the saltwater is merely replacing the fluid that was previously extracted. A possible exception might be a few commercial disposal wells but I do not think there are very many of these commercial wells within Osage County. The SWD and EOR wells are strictly monitored by the EPA and the permits for same limit the injection rates and pressures according to the known characteristics of each well. I don’t think the operations of the Osage County SWD and EOR wells could contribute to the triggering of an earthquake. I think it would difficult for someone to prove otherwise. It wouldn’t surprise me if Gentner Drummond and Ted Turner make a run at it. It’s more likely that their Federal horses stomping around are more of an earthquake and beetle bug threat.
One of the things that is just astounding about these Osages who live back home who know nothing about their history as a Tribal people but won't hesitate to call you an ignorant outsider, is this: among others, one of the most important reasons the Osages always lived in a portable way with lodges and such that could be put up and taken down is because of the seismic activity over the hundreds of years in the OK, MO, AK and KS areas that they have occupied in the centuries past.
To the poster at 9:54 AM. The pleading made by the BIA relates to extraction of minerals, and not about the wind farms per se. As much as the Osage would like to stop wind farm construction in Osage County, neither they nor the BIA has any grounds to do so. The claim presented was about an alleged illegal taking of stone which was crushed and used as backfill for the foundation of each wind mill. However, the applicable regulations only apply when a certain number of cubic yards of minerals are mined on a specific tract and not the county as a whole.
Regardless, the case does not involve a jurisdictional dispute. Neither party asserts that the State of Oklahoma has jurisdiction over the Minerals Estate, nor do they need to. The entire dispute arises under a Federal regulation governing the removal of stone for use by Enel's subsidiary (a U.S. domestic entity) in construction of wind farms, thus jurisdiction is with the Federal courts. The intent is clear that the allegations of an illegal taking were only made since no other means exist to stop wind farm construction.
The matter of the wind farms is irrelevant to oil production and potential damages to homeowners due to earthquakes, the severity of which is alleged to be increasing due to fracking.
To the poster at 9:35 AM. The producers are responsible for the technique used to extract the oil, barring some unknown and unforeseen clause in a lease which dictates the method(s) of production. The fact that the Osage Tribe owns mineral rights and leases the production of minerals (especially oil) makes the headright owners no more liable than if the minerals remained untouched. Any damages would be the result of the producers actions to remove the minerals, thus it is the producers who would suffer a judgment to compensate those harmed.
The dispute would be a civil matter brought before a jury. The rules of evidence are such that a correlation between oil production and earthquakes need not be proven as a scientific certainty, but only to the satisfaction of the jury.
So what you are saying is any homeowner anywhere in Oklahoma can sue an oil and gas producer in Osage County if there is an earthquake? That's a little hard to believe. I guess I'm confused. What are we talking about here? Wind farms or earthquakes?
To the poster at 2:22 PM. The conversation is related to oil production and the OCC's jurisdiction in Osage County. The discussion of impact on the producers is based on an article where homeowners were permitted to sue oil companies (see below). The geographical area involved for which a suit may be brought, and against which producer's (based on location of operations), would remain up to the judge hearing the case.
The BIA hasn't approved many leases for drilling in the last few years is my understanding. There couldn't be too many new wells out there to do much damage. We need to get the MC to give us info in writing on what's going on.. Where is the daily log of HPP history we use to have on the minerals web? Really! Why can't we hire someone? Someone take this up at a meeting, please.
I had wondered the same as well this was one way for monitoring the Activity. Not that I am not aware of the fact that we had a pretty good run int he last eight years but progress is where we need to be and this was a good indicator and one way the shareholders could see for themselves. To the M.C please post the data again.
Why don't you silly people pay attention for once and look around on the internet before you make these foolish statements? HPP is listed TODAY at $44.50 on the MINERALS COUNCIL WEB SITE! https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/minerals-council
To poster 11:10 am I was under the assumption we were taking about the spread sheet of the highest paid price through the years. Those are not posted like they used to be. And second why go anywhere when you can find the numbers easily posted on oil-price.net. And for the foremost if we had a working office full time their would be no reason not to update the web daily right, get our money working for us, right.
Get in touch with Kathryn Redcorn. She used to be really good about making sure the log was up to date. If you click on the text under the HPP daily listing, it will give you those numbers up to the first of the year.
Who are you dummies? Have any of you went to HPP and clicked on it? Nothing there since 2011, and its not what real HR owners need to know. Either we have kids posting on here that don't know what's going on or mental problem people. There's things on here, I can't believe they're real HR owners. Catherine's a nice lady, but does not have the right frame of mind to even go where she is talking. Why did she take it on herself to see the chief without taking this up with the others? This lady is dangerous. I think she's done more harm that good. What all was said? I think she'd try to talk a snake out of biting her! if that tells you anything.
Any dummy knows that. You miss the point. I'm 70 been at this a long time. Keep my own daily records when they are posted since we no longer have them like they used to be put on the mineral web site.. And watch the markets, because the shareholders aren't getting info we should.
The lollapalooza MC meeting last Wed. is now online for audio listening --->>> https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/minerals-council/meeting-information
One thing that's important to remember in all this "send a special invitation to the Chief" hullabaloo is that the Chief is free to attend and request to speak at any time. The vice-Chief acted as the Chief's liaison at OMC meetings when this council took their seats. It was only when the Chief's liaison was not allowed in executive session that the Chief's representative, of the Chief's own volition, quit attending.
Seeing as the Nation is now in the energy production business with the ONEs, by no means should the liaison be there. Had he been allowed to attend he would have been privy to proprietary information developed by producers wishing to do business with the M.E., that information could have found it's way back to the ONEs. The point of the executive session is so that producers can freely share their plans and develop leases without revealing their positions to their competitors. When the Nation began developing the ONEs they effectively became a competitor to other producers and by that fact should not be allowed in the executive session. As was said in the OMC meeting no one is barring the Chief or his liaison from attending or speaking they just can't sit in on executive sessions.
Not sure what your question is but if we owned the land there is less conflict with the surface owner and if it's in trust jurisdiction is ours. This is a moot point however because the Nation doesn't buy large tracts of land. I have heard first hand that they and many of their constituents think that the acquisition of land is a waste of money. Their policies and spending history certainly support this. They would rather us spend our resources on industry and job creation. Personally I disagree with their approach but I am by far in the minority on this issue. The power brokers in Osage county aren't the casino owners they are, without a doubt, the land barons.
The Osage Nation would first have to find countless of billions of dollars in order to buy up the land inside Osage County. Without having control over the entire county, the tribe would still only have jurisdiction over the tracts it owns and has placed in trust.
$19,000,000.00 flushed down the LLC toilet would get approximately 19,000 acres depending on where and what you're buying. That would have been a start. If nothing else we could have been making a quarter million a year in rent, if it was good grass. At least would have something to show for it other than some fat CEOs.
I keep hearing how the Minerals Council needs to work with the Chief and the Chief is the only one the feds will recognize, I don't think the evidence supports the latter statement. In minerals matters the FEDs meet with the OMC, granted the Chief has injected himself in some discussions but the discussion is with the OMC. I don't see how any other claim can legitimately be made. I think that whole argument is little more than grade-school reasoning made to conveniently serve a desired end. Tribes have many forms of government raging from theocracies to democracies and everything in between. As long as the federal official knows this is the decision maker for this issue from whatever tribe that's who they are going to deal with, it's done all the time.
With regard to the OMC working with the Chief that is a conflict of interest. Not only is the Chief elected by members other than the shareholders, not only does he have to answer to the wants and needs other than those of the shareholders, most importantly, the minute the Nation went into the energy production business he now sits firmly on the other side of the equation. As the head of the government and all it's entities he is ultimately the head of the ONEs. While I am certain he doesn't inject himself into their day to day affairs, in part, his success as Chief depends on the success of the Nations endeavors, of which the ONEs are certainly apart. This makes the Nation in it's relation to the Mineral Estate no more than another producer. Would you want a producer representing us to the FEDs? Of course not because it's a conflict. This is no different. Who will the Chief's loyalty and concern lay with, the preservation of the Mineral Estate or the success of the ONEs. Simply by his position as Chief and head of the Nation's many interests he can't represent and be fair to both. Neither the Mineral Estate or the ONEs should want that, both should want a champion trumpeting their cause independently working for the best position for each.
I fail, day after day, to understand this insistence on the Chief's inclusion and "unity" with the Chief's office or consultation with the Chief. The popular claim that the OMC should consult the Chief on legal matters is a conflict, by his position he can't serve as impartial council. That the Chief should represent the shareholders, again it's a conflict, he is the ultimate executive of the Nation's energy development aspirations. What is to be gained by a unity that gives away the OMC's authority to a Chief with apposing interests?
We can be united in our dances, in our churches, in our culture in general, and I think we mostly are and that's great. However business doesn't work that way. We need to be strong advocates for our own interest and assets. It's fool hardy at best to leave it to someone else and hope the actions they take benefit us. We as shareholders can not let shortsighted, feel-good "unity" dictate the fate of our assets. We are already united, we go to the dances, we shake hands, we eat, we laugh, we share commonality, so I have to ask who is this "unity" for and to what end? Is it just a buzz word to make us feel good about the taking of our assets? What does my income and it's source have to do with the good feelings and great food at committee dinner on Saturday? What does my income and it's source have to do with sitting and laughing in language class on Wednesday night? Why is "unity" conditional on giving up of control of my assets?
I truly fail to understand why so many Osages think this way.
You're clearly defined the proper roles of the Chief, MC and ONES. The problem stems from either a lack of knowledge of the necessity for operation at arms length or an unwillingness to do so. This was one of the great failures of the Osage LLC, and even now places not only the assets of Osage LLC at risk but also those of the Osage Nation.
I guess I'm on both sides of this question and my concerns are Osage Constitution related. Article XV, Section 2, outside of the management, administration and development of the minerals estate in Section 4, specifically has the minerals rights reserved to the Osage Nation. The income belongs to the Osage Nation before it's transferred to the OME Trust account by the Feds for quarterly disbursement to the headright owners and other purposes per the U.S. Congress 1938 Act to Amend the 1906 Allotment Act. As far as I can see the Osage Nation Constitution has created TWO parties in interest in the whole of Article XV because the titular head of the Osage Nation on a government to government relationship basis with regard to its owned and reserved assets is the Chief of the Osage Nation. He has the absolute right to act alone to protect those assets and fooling around with the Minerals Council trying to get legal permissions and MOUs and other such legal nonsense while leaving the assets he's fully and completely responsible for under the Osage Constitution and the 1906 Allotment Act as amended, leaving them wide open and without protection is unconscionable in my opinion. From my point of view, he doesn't need permission, an invitation or any other reason to act alone to protect these assets and he must do so severally or risk harm to them or perhaps the loss of them. Before you have income, you have to have the mineral rights protected and secured. Before you have income generated from the mineral rights to transfer to the OME trust account, you have to have the income protected as well. This is on the Chief and no one else. The Minerals Council has their own bailiwick and the Chief has his. The MC has stepped up and now it's the Chief's turn at bat and he had better take it now or risk losing the income against the new CFRs that will kill off at least 60% of the business in Osage County.
I totally agree. The Chief needs to stop legally pussyfooting around and get down to business to protect his part of the assets of the mineral estate. He's responsible and he needs to get it done before it's too late.
While the Osage constitution may put the Chief as head, for the purpose of government to government relations, on minerals matter the US government consistently consults with the OMC.
Whatever the Osage constitution says aside, this does nothing to resolve the conflicts in the above post. Not only does the Chief represent parties who are not concerned with the M.E., some maybe even hostile to it, he represents the Nation's energy development aspirations. If nothing else, that puts the office of the Chief in potential conflict with the administration and development of the Mineral Estate. Neither side should want him functioning both as lessor and lessee, royalty owner and producer. It is a fundamental flaw.
You have failed to read Article X, Section 8. Independence of Boards and Commissions. Further, you need to look at the governing documents of the ONES, LLC as to the business independence set forth by resolution of the Osage Nation Congress and signed by the then Chief. You are spinning a yarn here from a legal standpoint that anyone with any knowledge of the situation can punch a hole right through. The Chief is responsible for the mineral assets of the Osage Nation as set forth by the Osage Nation Constitution and that's all there is to that. No spin will make any difference from a legal standpoint. Do the work to read the Osage Constitution and it's all laid out for you in black and white.
As Principle Chief of the Osage Nation,Our Chief can not drop the ball and must be allowed not to drop the ball.Every new Osage day is being bushed whacked from the last day,but even going further its being bushed whacked from many generations of Osage concerns.Even if one can or could get 99% of the Osage on the same page,than 1% can and does control Osage future,which makes the Osage different than any other of the Peoples who claim and maintain the right of authority,who live between the two great waters.We the Osage are more traditional than that which we assume to be civilized. I know for fact we are born into this world,with traditional inherited remembrance of thousands of years.Maybe its time to breath new life,into our our 1% er's.We are not your enemy nor we ever will be,thats what we born with.respect and honor our elders and their council of elders.The world is full of gifts,modern gifts which should be laid before the feet of the Osage.
11:38, it's just my view, but that the CFRs, per the 1906 act, as they currently stand are the governing body of the Mineral Estate. The Osage constitution cannot and does not trump them in any way shape or form. Which is why when the FEDs want to talk minerals matters they talk to the OMC. Per the standing CFRs the Mineral Estate is retained in trust for the Tribe, not the Nation. The tribe is described as the lineal descendants of the original allottees with a headright. Which in my opinion is why the Nation continues to constantly insert "Nation" into every document, CFRs included, that has to do with the Mineral Estate. While the Osage constitution may empower the Chief of the Nation the FEDs are going by federal law which vests authority in the minerals council, thus necessitating the MOU, resolution and permissions. Before the FEDs will recognize him he has to have authority from the OMC, otherwise I believe any Chief would be in the middle of their business.
This is just my perspective no "spin", you're free to have yours.
What is to be gained by having the Chief inject himself into this rather than letting Minerals deal with it?
By Federal law otherwise known as Acts of the U.S. Congress are the mineral rights reserved to the Osage Nation, the Federally recognized legal survivor in interest to all assets of the Osage Tribe. The Osage Nation Constitution affirms this in Article XV, Section 2. Do the work and read your governing document.
John, these question are just points of curiosity and I don't mean any offense rather genuine curiosity and concern.
How are the 1% of Osages (I assume you mean headright holders) controlling the Osage government? Why does this Osage government have or need to have a claim to administrate my assets? What does any of this have to do with being Osage? How are Osages not united (in the important ways)? This is just money and assets.
This is much a question as it a statement, but in my exploration to understand the Facebook "Unity" phenomenon I am left wondering where it's coming from. Is it from Facebook Osages who aren't in any other way engaged in their culture? Does it just feel good to say? What does Osage unity look like to you with respect to headright holders? These are honest question I am just seeking to understand.
From my perspective it seems like the Facebook Osages are saying, "My arm's broken, break yours too so that we're alike."
Your interpretation of the applicable federal law is flawed. The 1906 Act vests ownership in the Minerals Estate in the Osage Tribe, which is defined therein as only those Osage who hold headrights therein. Public Law 108-431 granted the Osage to form a constitutional government, with the express restriction that it not diminish the rights of shareholders in the mineral estate.
To quote: "Congress hereby reaffirms the inherent sovereign right of the Osage Tribe to determine its own membership, provided that the rights of any person to Osage mineral estate shares are not diminished thereby."
Where the constitution or actions of the Osage Nation diminish the rights of an person to mineral estate shares, it is unlawful.
Public Law 108-431 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-108publ431/pdf/PLAW-108publ431.pdf
If every Osage member was given one unit of 2229000000 units of headrights,would that 1 millionth unit matter who is more Osage than any other who has more?most likly yes,it would just start another round fighting.can't win for losing.Rumor has it headrights have been given back to the Osage Tribe or Osage Nation.If true where are they,who controls them?If the MC controls them,who benefits from them,just Osage shareholders or all of the shareholders? If the Osage Nation controls them and somehow the revenue is placed into general funding,then each of the Osage membership benefits in some way or another.
12:20, the reality on the ground is whenever minerals matters are being discussed the DOI comes to the OMC, they do that for a reason. I will guarantee that reason has nothing to do with the Osage constitution. When the state was taking our rock they had to come and deal with the OMC. When the DOJ filed suit against ENEL it was with request and direction of the BIA and the OMC. It had nothing to do with the Chief. If you recall he was going to go arrest and prosecute non-Osages on non-Osage land, something laughable on it's face. When Mike Black and Venesa Hodge came down here it was the OMC they met with. The feds do this because their trust responsibility is with the Osage shareholder and they know if they go around the OMC they are opening themselves up to a huge lawsuit.
You may think me a simpleton, but in this case I think the actions of the feds speak loader than any words written in the Osage constitution with regard to the disposition of the mineral estate. The feds may like to be rid of us and scrape us off but they haven't managed to do it yet, no thanks to the Nation.
John, I still fail to see what money matters have to do with being Osage. I've never met any Osage who thought he was more Osage because of the amount of headrights he has. There are a lot of Kiowa's, Otoes, etc. who are 1/32 Osage that think they are more Osage (different issue) but my experience is Osages seldom even discuss the amount if any headright they have. Your experience may be different.
Why do all Osages need to benefit from a, or all shares? Isn't that what the Casino's and LLCs are for?
The only headright the Nation has is one that was left to them some years ago, I believe in the 80s or 90s, to create a scholarship fund. I don't remember but I think it was less than a full share, for what that's worth.
Some churches have tried to return headrights but have been told no method of taking them back exists and so they have not been accepted by the BIA.
To me the way we voted on this new constitution was illegal in the first place. Why my cousins that weren't shareholders had a say to vote over the minerals is wrong. Gray messed it all up.
Let me see when did everyone realize the Chief is a Conflict? Lol..Hostile does not do Justice.. we get the Big Picture poster @ 9:23 am Brought this up a while back when we heard first about One's. Your take ever so eloquent. And thank you..There is not just this conflict but many other conflicts of interest all over the place and as I said before we have a billion dollar business should never be ran like a arm chair coach..right. and how is unity creating progress or making money.? There is still going to be a rough times ahead..the truth always reveals itself..remember 10% is life 90% is what you do. The headrights will forever stay in tact, as we are who we are, descendants of original allottees. Shareholders and brother and sister Osages..Government can't create jobs as much as they can't stop spending. This was not the Government our people wanted..John, I have to agree with poster 1:05 pm..what we need is organization, This dance has been going on to long, this childish tug a war...One's will not come in and produce..this would eliminate competition end of the story. And Chief wd know what side of tge Fence you are on.
The only times one will see anything written on money matters by myself for decades has been a Osage War Chest and a statement of fact It would take 100's of millions of dollars needed to get the management of the ME to where it needs to be,something the feds has already told the federal courts they are not going to spend.So when we hear the shareholders took the money and ran,the feds were saying you had money to correct the problems but choose not to,hence the feds put everything on the Osage fault and this is where federal courts will come into play.I've been around Osage politics since 1979,never been about money but about a sense of place,a kinship,to be a legal Osage.
John, I like your statements about kinship and place, that's what's important. Personally I don't see the big deal with being a "legal" Osage but that's beside the point. We're all legal Osages now.
As for the settlement we took, by federal law there is nothing we or the FEDs could do with it other than disperse it to the shareholders. It's a matter of law, no preference no debate no questions. Other than the mandated million dollar operating expense for the OMC everything has to be dispersed. No one could do anything else with it if they wanted to. Besides it's the FEDs who caused the problems and it's FEDs problems to clean up. If they don't in a few years we will be back in court again and they will be writing another large check again. Our job is to make sure they are addressing the problems cleaning up their mess and where they aren't document it for future litigation.
The point is, the problems weren't ours to correct and we don't want to take on those problems and thereby diminish the responsibility the federal government owes us.
If the Chief is so sane, why is he asking for the legal strategy of the Mineral Council as if anyone would ever publish this information on a facebook site. It looks like he's foolish and desperate and going in, it's embarrassing and inappropriate that he has so breached protocol in this way and lowered the standard of the Office of the Chiefs. His communications should be published officially and not on Facebook. This isn't even a legitimate back channel to the Minerals Council. This is loose cannon behavior if I've seen it.
ReplyDeleteAs an attorney, he should be fully aware that it is unethical to seek disclosure of privileged communications between the MC and its attorney. Were the MC an individual, you can always ask and a fool may disclose. However, the MC represents the shareholders and could face imprisonment of civil damages for disclosure. The Chief knows this and his asking does seem strange and desperate.
DeleteWell, all I see is more of the same. What he is saying is that a person should get their head out of their butt [my words] and think ahead a little bit before filing law suits like the OMC did. The Chief also said "Thinking things through has not been what observation shows has occurred." I totally agree. And if he wants to communicate through social media occasionally, that's just fine too. At least he communicates.
DeleteThere was no time because the BIA fired in with those CFRs and gave everyone 35 days to comply which was and still is impossible. They waited as long as they possibly could, figuring, I'm sure, the Chief would finally come to his senses which he never did and then they went ahead. He's putting out a lot of smoke and mirrors to cover himself if they lose the court action because he never put in an action to the court that was needed as well. Don't be so easily manipulated. He probably knows he's screwed up big time and is back-pedaling as fast as he can to CHA.
DeleteYep, back pedaling to the tune of some real damage.
DeleteMaybe someone should have asked. It's your opinion that a court action was needed. Coming from a lawyer with 30+ years of experience, it seems that his opinion is that a law suit was not advisable. This lack of communication is breaking the MC's piggy bank (the one with our money in it). I predict that by the end of the MC's fiscal year, all of the $1,000,000 drawdown money will have been used, much extra money will have been taken from S 510 to pay lawyers, and there will be well over $100,000 in outstanding debt to lawyers. You watch.
DeleteThey did ask. They asked their attorney what the best options were that they had at the time. Calling a halt to this regulatory insanity was the answer and the right thing to do so they did it. If it were frivolous, the Federal Court would have thrown it out. Did you think this new BIA CFR folly that will eventually put 60% of the oil and gas producers out of business, who generate the income you see reflected in your headright check, would be inexpensive to stop? If two members of the U.S. Senate were pleased to see it halted by the Federal Court that also generated a scolding letter from them to the Trustee of our M.E. Trust to halt what the BIA is doing and start over, who am I to think I know better? Of course, you must know better than all of the rest of us put together.
DeleteExactly, the Chief running around saying the MC should publish legal strategy is disingenuous at best and stupid if he believes it. It's my opinion this is back pedaling for political expedience and position, trying to appear like he's the only one on top of the situation. If the MC is victorious he will claim it's only due to his efforts, if they fail it's because they didn't come to him. It's pure politics and nothing else.
DeleteAs for Geoffrey's claim that filing a law suit may not be smart; what alternative was left? The MC has voted down the CFRs on numerous occasions and voiced their dislike and concerns in several meetings. It all fell on deaf ears. The CFRs were going to be implemented anyway. What would he have the MC do, ask one more time real nice and hope? There was no option left other than filing suit. He know this. Again he's just playing politics.
To the point, someone should have asked Geoffrey his opinion about a filing a law suit, that's incorrect on it's face and in practice. You need an attorney who is impartial in advising you. The Chief is in no way impartial in this matter. He has agendas, goals, and his political life to think about. And I'm not deriding him in this instance, it's a matter of fact as it would be for any Chief. He can't serve as an impartial legal council or even offer a legitimate impartial advice to any part of this government. It's a conflict with his position as Chief.
Besides, it's my belief that the Nation supported the disastrous CFRs. The Nations lackeys Crumb and Yates sure do and it's Crumb that's running to Geoffrey after every meeting anyway. He appoints Crumb to different committees. They seem pretty tight to be in disagreement over something as important and fundamental as the CFRs.
I'd say that's a pretty smart analysis of the situation all the way around. One member of Congress I spoke with directly several weeks ago said that it was a good time to go in and take over the Minerals Estate because the price of oil is so low and the headright payments are down so low as a result that no one will really care. I nearly exploded in reaction at such a delusion. In fact I did. I believe I said and I directed my statement as if it were against the new government line, "Are you going with this, because it's just not TRUE!" This is someone I thought was on the side of the Minerals Council but more and more, I believe all the new government officials besides maybe 5 or 6 of the Minerals Council are in on it. If they persist in this direction and fully support the new CFRs and a hostile government takeover of the Minerals Estate from the members of the Minerals Council who are fighting for the Osage Constitutional right to independence, it will bring the new government down altogether. I am stunned at how cavalier these elected officials are about appropriating your headright income like it's their right to nationalize it when the U.S. Congress put it in the 2004 Reaffirmation Act that the OME, the Trust and the Headright System were to be left alone to run as they always have in the past. I think Geoffrey won't go in to join the lawsuit because then he will have lost any back channel to the BIA and they will stop taking to him altogether. This foolishness of not speaking to the party you owe a fiduciary relationship to by and ACT of the U.S. CONGRESS as amended is so unbelievable and unprofessional, I can hardly believe it's really going on in the modern day. I could understand this 150 years ago but now? If the Executive Branch division of the DOI can't do better than this, Obama should sign an Executive Order to get them into an on the job legal training program about the duties and responsibilities of a fiduciary and what is owned to the beneficiaries of a Trust in a modern day trust relationship and make certain they receive a certificate after having taken a test to prove they fully understand what it all means and how they are supposed to behave toward the beneficiaries at all times. Just because you are sued in Federal Court doesn't mean you can walk off, abandon the duties and responsibilities and play dead.
DeleteThese are assets tide to the righful Heirs. Owned and bought..can't be touched. No way..and this is why the assets were put into trust..but I do agree.. incompetence is not an excuse or will not be tolerated as we can see what political grandstanding is, Chief.
Delete"These are assets tide to the righful Heirs. Owned and bought..can't be touched." You are 100% correct. However, the problem as I see it is that the Nation and this Chief want to "touch" our asset. They want to take them out and play with 'em. And the the BIA and the DOI are more than happy to let them have it, i guess, thinking it gets them off the hook of responsibility.
DeleteThis is interesting and begs the question; is the Superintendant of the Osage Agency following the dictates of the Trustee of our Trust, Sally Jewell?
DeleteSecretary Jewell issues order and guidance on trust relationship
http://www.indianz.com/News/2014/014826.asp
http://www.doi.gov/news/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&pageid=561795
DeleteRobin doesn't seem to want to work with us, beside us or for us and has been in absentia for how long?
Delete(How strange is the timing of this turn of events?) CNN Breaking News Alert, July 19, 2015 10:15:17 PM MDT: An agreement restoring full diplomatic ties between Washington and Havana has gone into effect. Secretary of State John Kerry will be present at a ceremony formally reopening Cuba’s embassy in Washington later Monday.
ReplyDeleteIf the Osage became united once again and if we could not maintain 110% commitment and 100% We the People, we would fail.1% against unity(all it takes is 25 Osage) could and does cause failed future.I would humbly say most of the Osage do not and will not fight other Osage to do or try to do the right thing.Which is why we see many Osage doing their own Osage things.It is pure fact the 1906 act is not safe and if it is not safe then the constitution is not safe.Massive opportunities await the Osage in the modern world,if we dare to become a part of the them.
ReplyDeleteJohn we simulated a long time ago...The 1906 Act is safe..it is the Constitution and this de facto govt that is not safe. To many reasons to rewrite the Constitution. And yes this Gov with one phone call can come down as well. Thats all it takes..and as you can see after 9yrs has been a Govt for the Govt and not for the Osage People or their Communities. This is no accident or a coincidence. And if I have it correct, how did we become Gov? We had are administrative body, The M.C a Chief and a AP Chief per the 1906 Act. And yes we had Osages that were not members or had a vote. Yet the premise was to do the right thing and allow them membership so they to could be recognized for other Federal programs. Not just that we also know that everyone did not get there vote to make this dream a reality for the 1% . To become a Gov. This is no accident. This put in simple terms. There used to be synchronicity, harmony, stories to live by, now you have Govt of lies..so more or less many of us are tired of the long winded stories coming from this Administration. The lack of communication is no surprise as to it is no surprise our Govt is and now predictable why? Mirroring exactly like The U.S . This was not what the Osage wanted and this is why it will cave..The more I become more savy in Indian Law..much can be disputed..The Nation can come to a stand still as the M.E has endured thus far in the last year. There are huge conflicts that exists, huge ethical behavior that needs to be addressed and not swept under the carpet..huge cronyism. Time to hold those accountable.
DeleteI'm not sure how much unity there ever was but be that as it may, great strides could be made toward unity if the Nation would quit trying to inject itself into the running of the Mineral Estate and quit trying to take ownership of the Mineral Estate. Pretty simple.
DeleteThe Nation has literally every other way there is to make money and spend it. Their single-mindedness with regard to getting their hands on our asset is the cause of disagreements and law suits. The Nation, since it's inception, has done nothing but attack the shareholders at every turn. All we as shareholders have done is try to look after our assets.
As shareholders we are called greedy, we are called lazy, and we are called uncaring. We are cast as wanting to ruin the Nation. We are portrayed as uncooperative ogres holding back the potential of the Nation. This just because we have inherited a share and don't want the Nation taking it or running it's value into the ground.
I am always very wary of those in this tribe that call for unity. It seems the only unity they are willing to accept is if you unit behind them.
Truth has been told here BIG TIME. Thank you! Truth has been told here BIG TIME. Thank you! Truth has been told here BIG TIME. Thank you! Truth has been told here BIG TIME. Thank you! Truth has been told here BIG TIME. Thank you! Truth has been told here BIG TIME. Thank you!
DeleteMore encroachment -->>
ReplyDeleteOsage County plans advanced for 2nd wind farm
http://examiner-enterprise.com/news/local-news/osage-county-plans-advanced-2nd-wind-farm
https://stateimpact.npr.org/oklahoma/2014/07/24/why-oklahomas-wind-energy-future-could-be-shaped-by-osage-county/
DeleteAgain and again and again, this OCC is being put forward to circle Osage County.
DeleteWith the OCC you will have the Oklahoma Courts too with jurisdiction in Osage County. It's a clever in, so we need to be careful about letting in the OCC anywhere in OC:
Deletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/01/us/oklahoma-court-rules-homeowners-can-sue-oil-companies-over-quakes.html?_r=3
Well. This could wind up being the biggest boon for oil and gas in Osage County. As long as every county in OK may be under threat of a lawsuit by the home or landowner or both for earthquakes, Osage County will be exempt as long as the government of Oklahoma has no oil and gas jurisdiction because of the Federally held Osage income trust. Osage oil and gas men who now have leases may prove to be the luckiest oil and gas men in the State of Oklahoma. How is that for a turn of good fortune and a twist of fate?
DeleteFive of the eight Osage Mineral Council members were found guilty today in the Osage trial court of violations of the nation's ethics laws. Everett Waller, Cynthia Boone, Stephanie Erwin, Joe Cheshewalla and Kathryn Red Corn were found guilty of failing to file documents concerning receipt of gifts during 2013. Their lawyer (the council's lawyer) said the decision will be appealed.
ReplyDeleteOMG!
Deletehttps://www.facebook.com/OsageNews?fref=nf
DeleteFor a dang blanket they all got when they were elected and they let those Pawhuska Village Board men run off with $806,000? You've got a sick and twisted tribal court system, you know that?
DeleteYoure not a kiddin'
Deletehttp://osagenews.org/en/article/2015/02/05/jurisdiction-challenged-pawhuska-village-five-man-board-case/
Keep up the good fight OMC. There are lots of us out here who support your struggle in keeping the Nation from taking us over.
DeleteYou got that right.
DeleteYeah.....while Crumb Yates and Abbot are hell bent on violating and ignoring the 1906 Act to serve the ME on a silver platter to the ONG. Priorities are upside down and backwards. I wonder if this will be used to punish and remove these five people and replace them with ONG operatives to kill the Shareholder estate. No doubt those serving the ONG will use this as propaganda to further their cause.
DeleteWorried, aren't you. If they had played by the rules, there wouldn't be this embarrassing problem.
DeleteOf course. Why do you think the Chief is riding herd on them just like Jim Gray did with all those lawsuits against the Osage Congress to get his way all the time. Chief SB wants to take over the Minerals Estate on behalf of the Osage Nation and crush the Minerals Council members who will not let him go along with it even though he has no Constitutional ground where the Minerals Estate is concerned. He's just another lawyer working behind the scenes with enough power to move the Osage Court to go in his direction. Ethics rules and regulations are within the Minerals Council's purview as mandated by the Osage Nation Constitution in Article XV, Section 4, Paragraph 3.
DeleteI agree. Osage Congress has their own rules and ethics committee and they are an independent branch of government from the Executive. Framers made certain that Chiefs in the future couldn't run the Minerals Agency and the Minerals Council around like the carpet sweeper and made them independent in the governing document as a constitutional protection. Chief is like those way smart velociraptors in Jurassic Park constantly testing the fences.
DeleteGovt. Loves division. But noted is the fact he (SB) can't touch this. and it appears the snakes in the M.C have been made out, only by truth. Or is this much more of the same cronyism. However the Shareholders have to decide their fate..it would have been different had the M.C followed the laws of the Nation, and in good faith at least represent that good faith for the Shareholders and submitted to the ethics law and or if they would have come out and protest publicly why they felt different of the issue? These are elected officials and we cannot have the appearances of impropriety,we do not want to go forward with the precedent, what will be the Policy for this behavior? However big or small the Gift or who gave it. Still needs to be claimed. The M.C is smartter than this and under whos direction is this coming from? Oh, thats right the Lawyer who works for the M.C I tought the Lawyer worked for the M.E? So we have a lawyer in conflict of interest?This is the 21st Century. The Games need to stop...it does not matter if the drawdown is being used? It is the M.E paying for your incompetence M.C members. Nah, the Shareholders expect nothing but exceptionalism from their elected officials, when in a position like this you do not have the Luxury of being secret of your intentions. You are a Public Figure. So, one begs to ask why is this behavior being tolerated period? Not at the expense to the M.E if they lose the appeal they should pay for the costs of the Lawyer and what ever expences incurred to be sure this tpye of behavior will not occur again..why? This is to protect them from this type of behavior otherwise could be construed as to how future outcomes can be effected. Mr Waller speaker what do you have to say on behalf of your behavior to the Shareholders?
DeleteEmbarrassing problem??? What embarrassment? There is nothing embarrassing here. All the MC is doing is saying the Mineral Estate isn't going to cower in the face of the Chief's over-reach of authority.
DeleteThe Chief has to explain why he is legally on the attack. Do you think Poland needed to have an elected official blow a whistle in the middle of the Blitzkrieg to make a statement as to why they were defending themselves when Hitler attacked them? Try and think once in a while if you please.
DeleteI'm a shareholder that also is against the chiefs take over. As for Katherine's silly notion, this is why we did not vote for her. The last time she was in the MC, she was for Jim Gray's take over. She's like a snake in the grass! It's hard to understand that there's Osages that are soo blind. Is this Osageblogger also on the same page as Katherine?
Delete"...it would have been different had the M.C followed the laws of the Nation, and in good faith at least represent that good faith for the Shareholders and submitted to the ethics law..."
DeleteEvery time the OMC bends to the will of the Nation on any issue it can be interpreted as capitulation or, worse still, seen as agreement with the Nation's takeover of the Mineral Estate. I for one don't want them to put the shareholders in that position.
Thats an old excusr poster 3:02. I feel the huge narrative and it has to be addressed. Its a huge monkey on our back. But we cannot endorse laws to be broken. Either way..the appeals Court will not rule differently. It would be like, I was Jay walking and knew it yet I did what I wanted knowing the law was here to protect me..still got a ticket..and thou there was no traffic, I still broke the law..We are at an age ole scholl soes not work with the times because some of us are smart to know the difference , between harassment and following the law...The Chief weather you like it or not is subject to these laws and our Mineral Council is subject as well...we know this much the Chief will call it another day until another Chief steps in and he will probably get wise and communicate with the Council..and learn not what to do but what you can do .as a team.
DeleteIf an individual or council, in this case, believe the law is in error, and if a legislature is unwilling to address or see it as a problem then the law must be broken to be challenge. If the law is followed it doesn't get challenged in court and it stands.
DeleteIt's akin to Rosa Parks refusing to sit in the back of the bus. Technically she broke the law. That was, however, the only way to get the issue to court and have it addressed.
Hardly, akin to Segregation...value judgement was not used and is not the social norm to resist a law so simple to conply and for more than one reason it should be followed to avoid any and all impropriety. The real Monkey is trust. The Law can be amended through the legal processes, because really the hurdle for success is trust. Freedom comes at a price and has a structure. The law sets boundries to confine and protect. And in this case this case the Philosophy would be time to change, because every step forward will the steps to success be counted based on trust. From the Nation to the M.C
DeleteP.S.... It did not work for the M.C going to Court, and I could have told the M.C other wise, I do understand your point getting it to the Court...but the Opinion is of the same it is going to be rejected at the Appellate Court. To many reasons to object. Common sense is required..I wonder about the Lawyer we have working for the M.E..the Tug of War must stop. The only way at this point is damage control..throw the M.C in the Back Ground as a Board of Directors. Put the Leadership with skills in the Petroleum field and build a structure away from the M.C though they will have the final approval as structureed by the 1906 Act. Then let the Chief and the Council play tug a war in their back yards not on the M.E..now. this is structure. Gone are the ways of doing business the old way..
DeleteThe premise would be to become a force to be reckoned with to establish, till then the Nation will keep on trying to inject their opinion, and the Shareholder's will be there to expect nothing less. So really on some fronts we are all on the same page and their is only one way to succeed. The M.C has only one way to go is up...or?
DeleteMC Meeting is on live now.
ReplyDeleteComment about a rock permit being transferrred to the Oklahoma Department of Mines? An assignment of lease discussed on this situation as well. The conversation is unclear. And a change in how MC approves assignments with a resolution of the MC instead of the letter sent by the Chair of the MC.
DeleteWhats the purpose? To create more ineffective policy? More redundancies and inefficiencies?
DeleteDiscussion was very animated on a motion to meet with the Chief. It failed. The vote was 2 for, 2 against, and three abstentions with Galen Crum absent due to family illness as reported by Chairman Waller.
DeletePaul Revard is speaking but I can't make out hardly a word. Problem with lease paperwork and who the BIA will work with as an individual or a Corporation then on to the Corp of Engineers to come into the lease because the landowner won't allow access. I believe they said the COE said he can't drill and do you know who we are? So this goes back to the Agency Superintendant and then need an injunction. Finally get ingress and egress established and can go in but can't get off the main road? Something...no access so want money back on appeal of the lease. Then on to the approved drilling permit. To heck with the appeal and can only stake the location for the well and 30 days left to file a second appeal and if can't get your money back but can get your $10.00. Will lose the lease and no money back?
DeleteMore venting that sounds like he has cause to be fulminously angry.
DeleteYes indeed he does. He should be very angry at the BIA and the MC. The MC has done nothing to assist or surport the operator.
DeleteMore problems from the Corps of Engineers. Never would issue final permits. Taking the rights away from the Osage from 3 years ago.
Delete$750,000 being discussed now and on balance, a regulatory horror story well beyond the pale.
DeleteWhen this is finally posted for on demand listening via the internet, this is a MUST LISTEN MEETING at https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/minerals-council/meeting-information MC is now taking a break.
DeleteJames, it sounds like the ball is entirely out of the MC's court. I had quite a time listening because he is so rightfully angry that I could hardly understand him, but this is an ingress and egress matter that the BIA has let in the door with the EPA requirements before the Donalson/Friend lawsuit is even settled in Federal Court.
DeleteJames, how could the MC be of help when no intervention on their part with the BIA seems to make any difference. Now they won't respond to any shareholder request from any representative from the MC other than the Chairman, if I understood it correctly.
DeleteIf Waller won't agree to other MC member requests for information from the BIA then they won't go forward at all so this effectively denudes every other member elected to serve on the MC but Chairman Waller on the part of the BIA.
DeleteHepsi Barnett, I warned you back in early 2006 that this Constitutional form of government would ruin the Osage Minerals Estate and the income to the Headright owners and here it is in black and white. If this was your underlying agenda from the outset, you have been successful and today's Minerals Council meeting is proof positive of it. If this is what you intended to accomplish, you have indeed brought the ball over the goal line today. What I didn't foresee then is that your new government would eventually risk bringing down the economy of the whole of Osage County. I suppose you will also have to thank the Harvard Project for helping to facilitate your goal because together you two have certainly accomplished it today.
DeleteTwo other things mentioned in the meeting today; 1) The lawsuit against the MC has now been turned into a declaratory judgement as to whether the MC is under the Osage Nation and 2) The BIA is operational with the trust relationship being with the beneficiaries, in other words, with the U.S. and the Headright owners. A sentence was read out of the Federal Register that "The Minerals Council is empowered to conduct business for the Minerals Estate."
DeleteI think I heard Cynthia say something about the Osage Nation has got no business in our business. Why the hell dont he mind after his own chunk of it thats in just as big a mess as the minerals. Knocking the minerals council for a loop all the time only takes away from the mess on the nations side and he has more than enough to do to fix that if he even can. Hes only making things that much worse for the headrrite owners and he should get out of it now. Devlop what? These new Chiefs of the CONst govt have meddled so much already theyve almoost lost the whole damn thing. Gray, the Red Eagle they threw out and now this lawyer who cant stop himself from finishing us off. Get away from the minerals and stay away you damn fools before therres nothing left.
DeleteStill in Executive Session.
DeleteBond money is being discussed on emergency pluggings.
Delete$495,086 in attorneys fees? This is a little tiny Tribe with 19,000 members? Who do we go to find out if we are being billed properly by all these law firms being read out? It sounds like we are being taken advantage of. This is huge.
Delete$200,000 from Akin Gump. Didn't they get paid by the court in the HPP case?
DeleteAre we talking about the Army Corps of Engineers? Where is Vince logan? How is the Trust Relationship working for th ed Osage? Got News Vince Logan after 4 yrs its not!
DeleteIs this from the help we got from them on the new CFRs?
DeleteMinerals Council funds to be moved to Bartlesville bank by resolution put forward by Cynthia Boone to be voted on?
DeleteMotion passes to move the money away from the Gentner Drummond affiliated bank where it is now held at Citizens Bank.
DeleteNo interviews being given and approved the newsletter to be sent out due to the bellyaching of you know who?????????
Delete"Mumbles" Yates gave report on MC scholarships and students. Couldn't hear if they were going to get them or already have them. Meeting adjourned.
DeleteWOW! That was really something... Don't miss it when it's available to listen to on the Minerals Council web site.
DeleteI tried to listen to the meeting live. If I read it right, 6 others were trying. If our Headright checks don't go up, I am affraid I won't be able to afford the asprin needed to listen to the 'Joke of Quality' audio. I've heard and seen better media of first graders plays on the web. Talk over each other, turn up the volume to hear, then everyone laughs at what I don't know. It doesn't seem these are laughing times. But what do I know, I am just a Shareholder who tries to be better informed by listening to XXXXed up sounding meeting!
DeleteTell me why it has taken our MC well over a year after Gentner Drummond filed the Donelson lawsuit to get our money out of the Drummond bank? Then, keep telling me how smart this MC is.
DeleteHold on right there. The Nation moved the money to this bank and may still have the Treasury assets there today. There was some discussion about the signature cards for the Nation not letting the MC even on the accounts themselves. The Nation has no business running the MC business and should be held off by a country mile. For these reasons:
Delete$19 million lost on the Osage, LLC.
$30 million cost overruns on the two casinos being investigated.
3 times what should have been paid on the Pawhuska Arbor.
1 1/2 times what should have been paid on the Grayhorse Arbor.
$450,000 or so returned to the Feds for grant money unaccounted for by the Osage Nation properrly.
$806,000 misappropriated by the Pawhuska Village 5 Man Board the Nation just had to take away from the MC to run by itself.
Instead of the Chief cleaning up these messes he runs off to play with the Southern Utes and the Jicarria Apache to try and take over the Minerals Council's Constitutional right to develop and administer the Minerals Estate. The Osage Nation, like that gal in the Minerals Council said today, the Osage Nation has proven it has, "GOT NO BUSINESS IN OUR BUSINESS." If you are so disaffected as to believe that the Osage Nation will do better than the Minerals Council, then you are the biggest fool on the planet. LOOK at the FACTS if you even can. If not leave it to the MC and get to praying that the Chief will bug off and start taking care of the messes he already has on his plate right now.
Well the Federal Register Posted as I have said before we are empowered. And look at where we are at today? When are they going to wake up?
DeleteThis is what the Osage Nation does with its business plus throw out a Chief. The Minerals Council as leaders on the team brought $155,136 per headright to the Shareholders from the Highest Posted Price lawsuit. Now who do you want transacting business for your Mineral Estate? The Nation who can't pour rainwater out of a boot where business is concerned or the Minerals Council who has been fighting for its life every day since the Nation was formed and the Nation has been spending all this time on the Minerals Council trying to take it over instead of paying attention to its own assets and businesses. You will have a total disaster if they come in to run things and if you don't know that you do now.
DeleteI am a Tallchief,
DeleteI have been posting here and I have posted back when the Osage Shareholder site was up. I cannot say enough without a doubt on both fronts I am pissed...behaving like children will cost...This was not the intent the Nation has come to..let the Administration dispute this? The whistles will come Chief.
Who do we hear about when something goes wrong? The Osage Nation. When we hear of a screw up who do we hear about? The Osage Nation. When there is money lost, misappropriated, overspent, spent foolishly, or spent ridiculously who do we hear about? The Osage Nation. THE Osage Nation. THE OSAGE Nation. THE OSAGE NATION! Do you get it now? Have I explained it clearly enough?
DeleteCan no one explain why our money has been left in the Drummond bank? They talked about moving it months ago, but I guess it's still there, making pennies for us and dollars for Drummond. This is stupidity, ignorance, and laziness in the 3rd degree.
DeleteHold on to your hat. Better late than never and you really can't see the larger issue here can you? If the Nation has $30,000,000 of claimed assets still there why aren't you bellyaching about that? The Nation may not even let them move the money. Why aren't you having a hissy fit about that? Well?
DeleteBetter late than never is not much of an excuse.
DeleteWho is making excuses? These are the facts. Don't obsess over your Minerals Council. There are enough elected officials in the Osage Nation government doing that already and neither one of you are getting the money from Minerals income trust. Sorry. Try and start pressing the Osage Nation for the money you want. They owe it to you. The Minerals Estate Trust doesn't and it never will.
DeleteYou forgot to mention the gift shop that bought and paid for $250,000 to $350,000, a gross overpayment, from the Trumblys for inventory and then ultimately failed. A footnote is the old store was reopened by the Trumblys again later and I think they are still open now. Don't forget the Palace Grocery that the Nation was done with after how many thousands upon thousands of dollars were dropped and then recently reopened with another $250,000. Will this time be a failure too? We'll find out in the fall if and when they come crawling back for more money to keep that long running appropriation negligence of Osage Nation funds flowing in the same direction.
DeleteWith such a lousy business track record, the Osage Nation has a hell of a nerve to even look at the Mineral Estate. A hell of a nerve to even think about going into the oil business. Clean up you own side of the barn and then start making money with the ventures you've already got and after 10 more years then do a 25 year plan and in 35 years with some success under your belt with much easier business ventures than oil and gas, then maybe think about going into the oil business.
DeleteYou both have it right..it is the M.C that is Empowered to do business and simply put. We have the choice to do business with One's or not. At this point it is a huge disappointment how this has became a huge Conflict of Interest because the Chief just endorsed bigger Government. And had he sat with the M.C and said to them look, I have been approached and I think had this been fortuitous and not by design, just maybe this could have developed into a Great Business relationship..It is to easy to see the what is behind and under the covers with the Ute. This has me very concerned what is going on with our EXECUTIVE. SB remember who you work for. But now we see the Greed of the Nation. Grandstanding is not making us money...At the Nation you all are Culpable. This just stinks to kingdom come.Next subject...Everyone knows that a Grocery Store is a voluminous business and the profit Margin is 1%. (Funny how I keep on seeing that numder posted from time to time on this site) most important was there a Marketing Analysis done in the area? Was the Demographics really scrutinized accurately? The average American will spen 10% of their income...lets say, your take home is $4000, your monthly grocery bill will be $400 a month and that is only counting two in your household The only way the store will make money is creative marketing..70% markup on greeting cards if not more in your area that you live in to such things as batteries, magazines and you get the picture of the example I gave you...I used to work in the retail service industry..was there a traffic count? Just because it sounds good does not mean it will work..Now I believe the owner saw an opportunity and took it..and in this economy its hard pressed not to survive. Everyone will feel the effects of the on slaughter on the Energy Sector..We've got to Green Giants sitting in Positions that are pushing their agenda and the truth be known fossil fuel will never go away..And the mere fact how many Corporattions are being subsidized by the green energy thru tax credits as they are boondoggles. That money, the tax payers are on the hook for..Osage Wind sold us out to the company Enel what do we know about that deal and where did the money go? Lease deals usually get 6000 to 8000 dollars per turbine. Man the long winded stories. Not tales but factual. Do the diligence, not just an Eye Sore..like I said our Government needs to take care of their House because I'm gunning for a re- write of the Constitution and for building a stronger fortress with the community and most importantly building the trust of our People in a system that works for them and not into the Lawyer Nation we have become..the truth always reveals itself.
DeleteThink about where all that waste is going? Hindsight is 20/20 Chief. It is always harder to do good than evil.
DeleteJust last Wednesday the Council voted to not reach out to the Chief, in spite of Kathryn Red Corn's desperate plea. This is the attitude shown the Chief. And after being rejected and snubbed by MC3 for months now, I'm sure he's tired of reaching out to them. He will probably just go ahead and do what ever needs to be done concerning the ME. It seems to have started last year sometime when the Council would not allow the Chief's representative to sit in executive session.
DeleteAnd the Representative was who? Redcorn? And what was the reasoning for the decision by the Council to not allow the Representative? I could understand why if it wasn't Redcorn the decision behind this. And why was the Chief not there to begin with per the 1906 Act..he is apart of the Council, the tie breaker? So why are paramount decisions being msde without the tie breaker the Chief.
Deletehttp://okenergytoday.com/2015/03/bills-targeting-wind-farm-tax-credits-passed-in-state-senate/
ReplyDeleteSo it is true. The Bigheart Times has a lead article in today's issue titled, "Chief: Keep OCC paws off trust" The OCC referred to is the Oklahoma Corporations Commission and the article goes on to say that the Chief while on business will get to the bottom of what is going on with the faction of the Osage Producers Association wanting to go in this direction. When he returns, hopefully we will get an official report as to what is going on. Also of important note, there is new legislation this week put forward by Senator Lankford:
ReplyDeleteS.1818 — 114th Congress (2015-2016)
A bill to amend title 5, United States Code, to reform the rule making process of agencies.
S.1820 — 114th Congress (2015-2016)
A bill to require agencies to publish an advance notice of proposed rule making for major rules.
Progress is being made, are the Work over permits being issued?
DeleteI thought I heard the BIA gal say that may be in a stack on a desk?
DeleteThere is no "faction" of the Osage Producers Association attempting to allow the OCC to remove the BIA from governing Osage County. Talking with producers, the only thing that has arisen is that the OPA would like the BIA to incorporate some OCC regulations. One specific item is bonding. The OCC requires $25K, regardless of the well count. This would surely be more palatable to the small producer than the $5K/well that the BIA is trying to ram down the throats of the Osage operators.
DeleteOK. Thank you for this clarification.
DeleteCool beans poster 12:14. Tk u
Delete12:14 PM Is that $25,000 for a one-well lease? Per year? If so, we don't need the OCC!
DeleteHe said regardless the well count. Not one.
DeleteIt also covers all Oklahoma Counties, except Osage of course.
DeleteWhy? Osage County is a County right?
DeleteOf course it is an Oklahoma county, but the State of Oklahoma does not have any jurisdiction over Osage County oil and gas operations. Unfortunately, Osage County oil and gas operations is governed by the BIA.
DeleteHas anybody looked at what the OCC requires compared to our regulations? Why would a company come to drill for production? Over regulating when they (DOI) just holds the trust thats it. This is bought land..by the Osage before we were recognized Federally. let me ask this question what does it mean when the Federal Register says the M.C is empowered? The authoriy or power to do something...So as people, I often thought for a long time what it meant to be Sovereign, and the Intent. It is incumbent the Shareholder's hold those accountable. Sovereign, together as a people. As long as there is a division with in our M.C the best interests of the M.E is compromised and the Long Term affect is why we are here today..we have huge trust isseues that if we were Structured and lived by the word of the 1906 Act , had we had leadership defined by direction, this is the 21st Century..blunders is not the word, more like a Barrage..
DeleteYou're preaching to the choir. We need to keep suing the Federal government for their deliberate punishing vindictive actions.
DeleteThe state of Ok is about to put a 1 year moratorium on salt water and waste injection disposal in 29 counties due to earthquake worries. We currently have no earthquake problems in the Osage, but if we aren't careful and if we fail to regulate injection here, we could wind up living with a moratorium, too. Just try producing oil in Osage county with no disposal wells. It can't be done. We need to stay far, far away from Oklahoma's negligent, understaffed, and ineffective OCC.
DeleteYou both are right, non the less what I posted in as much, it goes with saying. Alot needs to happen.
DeleteWe've been recognized Federally since the time of Thomas Jefferson. The land for the reservation was purchased by the Osage Tribe with a Trustee's Deed. "...,in trust for the use and benefit of the Osage...Indians." It is a trustees deed for the purchase of a reservation, not a single family detached home, a multifamily home, a commercial property, a ranch, a farm etc. It is a deed for a RESERVATION. It is listed in the chain of title and furthermore, if it's not legally acknowledged in the modern day then all of the land and the mineral rights together will revert back to the Cherokee Tribe of Indians from whom the land was originally purchased. Be happy with what you've got or suffer the consequences. I'm sure the Cherokee Tribe or Nation or whatever it's known by these days would love to have back the legal ownership of the whole of Osage County. It would be their land, a new reservation for them with no jurisdiction of anyone other than the Cherokee government. How does that sound to you?
ReplyDeletethis is a good post,but good for who?The best action is for Osage working together.Warrior up and honor all that has been,is and will be The Osage.
DeleteWarrior right, lawyer up. I agree John, our Culture and who we are as a people we must put on our coat of honor. We can be the Warrior again. Restore our foundation to build a Unity.. Government can't do that, Government cannot create Sovereignty. But as a people we can do this..This Reality that the trust deed, and intent is exactly right. And yes we were Recognized a long time ago..Knowledge is a tool. The true story is we as a people, Osage , can make the necessary changes.
Deletehttp://www.indianz.com/News/2015/018314.asp
ReplyDeleteThis is a must read. First and foremost take a look at Pawhuska BIA agency the tribe, the tribe Vince Logan is a member of and you all can tell us what is going wrong, how poorly it is ran at a administration level poorly, so now you have the National Commission on Indian trust administration and reform called on the on the DOI to consider a " sunset" of the OST. Transfer all duties back to the BIA. Really stupid thought. It's not going to happen... according to Kevin Washburn his opinion the BIA is not broken. Lol who are they kidding? All of them..All eyes are watching Vince Logan.
“….Barrasso called Logan's absence "unacceptable" and wondered whether the OST has "outlived its purpose."….”
ReplyDeleteGeez, does any Osage employed by any government ever show up for work?
He may have seen it as an ambush. If that was the case then it was best he decided to stay away.
DeleteYou show up. Ambush my arse..if you cant handle the puddin then get out..we need support in Indian Counrty.
DeleteMaybe it was a protest absence. He gets about quite a bit and shows his face all over the country. Why with the BIA getting such bad reports from stem to stern the U.S. Congress would want them to take back the accounting and disbursement of trust funds I have no idea. I guess it's a cost savings to the Federal Government but it lead them into two major lawsuits in the past and that's not so good.
DeleteRight, its not funny, the DOI stil has a family member of mine MIA still, yet the Agency has his current address, see a problem? This is a good Idea that this Agency go back to what it was originally by design as a Liason to...
DeleteI have a question for any of you that are knowledgeable about Osage oil and gas mining leases. Up until several years ago, the Osage oil and gas mining leases were auctioned and sold to the highest bidder. The "Osage Tribe of Indians" was named in the oil and gas lease, as Lessors and the successful bidder was named, as the Lessee of this legal instrument. The royalties were paid to the BIA for the distribution to the Shareholders. Now, the oil and gas leases name the "Osage Nation", as the Lessor. Can someone explain why the change was made to the oil and gas lease?
ReplyDeleteI'm not an attorney but I have had it explained that the Osage Nation was the government formed with the Constitution in 2006. It then came to become the legal survivor in interest and successor in interest to all that the Osage Tribe owned up to that point, hence the name change on the oil and gas leases.
DeleteTo the poster at 9:09 AM. You've made an astute observation. Within the definitions of 25 CFR § 226.1 the term Osage Minerals Council has been changed to read "means the duly elected governing body of the Osage Nation or Tribe of Indians of Oklahoma vested with authority to enter into leases or take other actions on oil and gas mining and other marketable products pertaining to the Osage mineral estate." This change in the regulations is inconsistent with Public Law 108-431, which authorized the Osage Tribe to determine its own form of government and its membership. This law contains the provision "that the rights of any person to Osage mineral estate shares are not diminished thereby." The term Osage Minerals Council should clearly state that it is the governing body elected solely by those holding headrights in the Osage Minerals Estate. All prior references to Osage Tribal Council have been changed to Osage Minerals Council, but it is the change in statutory definition of Osage Minerals Council which is important. BIA states that the change was made because "the Osage Tribal Council no longer exists."
DeleteThere is another provision at 25 CFR § 226.35 which permits the Principal Chief to take actions for "speak for a person of unsound mind or feeble understanding" when the BIA Superintendent determines there is no one else deemed to be a "proper party."
As currently structured, the Osage Minerals Council is the Osage Nation government within the BIA regulations. Furthermore, it is a subordinate body of the Osage Nation government pursuant to the Osage Nation Constitution. These document serve to wrest control of the Minerals Estate from the shareholders and grant control to the Osage Nation, a situation which certainly has the capacity to diminish the rights protected by PL 108-431.
25 CFR PART 226—LEASING OF OSAGE RESERVATION LANDS FOR OIL AND GAS MINING
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=3d6d1d79a7f3f0fddd0918dfd91e9d89&mc=true&node=pt25.1.226&rgn=div5
Osage Mineral Negotiated Rulemaking - BIA Docket ID: BIA-2013-0003
http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketDetail;D=BIA-2013-0003
Federal Register, Vol 78, No 167
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-08-28/pdf/2013-20764.pdf
Public Law 108-431
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-108publ431/pdf/PLAW-108publ431.pdf
Good post 1:43 pm.
DeleteHas the Chief come back yet and if so what are the results of his meeting with the U.S. Congressional staffers?
ReplyDeleteRay McClain just posted another letter and it is exactly what I said The M.C are using the General Attorney for the Estate as their personal lawyer and they should be using their own personal defense lawyer to represent them in the ethics case...this is not about the M.E but personal belief that we are a separate entity but no one is above the ehtics when it comes to elected officials and are not above the law. Like I said we should not expect nothing less when it comes to representing the M.E Unbelievable.
ReplyDeleteAs usual, Ray McClain is daft. These Mineral Council members were operating in their capacity as government officials and any gifts they may have received were given because they are members of the Minerals Council. They have the right to be represented by an attorney of their choice and it's their general attorney not the attorney general of the Osage Nation who they have chosen to represent them. Next he will be asking them for full disclosure on the Christmas presents they received last year and the year before that.The BIA Court has nothing whatsoever to do with the internal workings of the Constitutional government of the Osage Nation and any independent boards, commissions, enterprises, or the Minerals Council itself. That's like saying because the government of Uganda recognizes the United States of America as the single recognized entity for the Americans any independent agency of the government has to abide by the same rules of ethics. Ask the CIA if the same rules of ethics apply to how they do business overseas and if they will even give you answer, I'm sure it might come as a surprise, especially if they were to tell you the truth. Sometimes he says things that are so ridiculously absurd it's stunning.
DeleteIt does not matter the point is the facts are and will still be the same..no matter the spin.and what has to be done remains the same. As a Shareholder I want a M.C we can trust.
Delete8:31 PM, you pointed out the problem exactly when you said “These Mineral Council members were operating in their capacity as government officials and any gifts they may have received were given because they are members of the Minerals Council.” That’s the reason for this law being in the books.
DeleteThats why I said in some of my earlier posts...it isn't business any longer the same way..Change needs to come in a big way..Oil prices are as low as back in 2008 compounded by? Well, that goes without saying we know what is going on...not just that,recognizing when change needs to happen..it is our Sovereign right to enforce what needs to happen...This is an Estate that needs to be ran like a multi billion dollar estate...and no one is above the Law.
DeleteWe vest in the M.C the fiduciary responsibility to act accordingly. This is not happening by a few...we will seek replacement of the few members but we want a new Lawyer for the Estate...as well...we need to rid the cancer and get a working team not an arm chair coach.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMaybe get un contact with the Election Office?
DeleteWhy was 4hat comment removed Osabeblogger? It was a valid point. What is wrong with wanting to know where you could find a campaign voucher?
DeleteNothing as far as I can tell but I'm not sure I know what a campaign voucher is as I've never heard of it before. The poster removed the comment him/herself. If you register and join Google you have more posting functions available to you as a member. Deleting comments is one of them.
DeleteThank you. Intersting. It has to do with how you report your financial support in your campaign. Who is donating to your campaign. It regulates so corruption or eliminates it by disclosure if I have right.
DeleteStand corrected if I am wrong.
DeleteThe Osage Nation Election Office should have that information for the candidates in the General Election. The Minerals Council has its own set of promulgated rules and runs its own separate election and I'm not sure if the candidates have the same reporting requirements or not. I suspect that they don't have the same reporting requirements. Now here we have a perfect example of the schizophrenia of the Osage Nation where the Minerals Council and the Minerals Agency are concerned. They have "allowed" the MA and MC to conduct their own separate election, promulgating their own rules with their own separate election process and precedent has been set with these separate elections. The Osage Nation Election law has affirmed this and the Constitution guarantees and mandates that the MC also has the right to promulgate its own rules and regulations, separate and apart from the Osage Nation. The Osage Nation Constitution is the governing document and is the "law of the land." Any legislation that becomes law can be changed by further legislation. The Constitution cannot be changed without a vote of the Osage people. The Nation is going way out on a limb here in its constant effort to try and undo the protections provided and mandated by the Constitution for the Mineral Agency and the Minerals Council. I would like to see full disclosure for all the court costs and attorneys fees on both sides for this questionably legal "foxhunt" litigation and all this hullabaloo when one member of the Minerals Council has reported a gift of one blanket and one ham. If we were talking $806,000 then that would be another story but we wouldn't want Osages hurt by having to deal with the consequences of their actions in that case (still before the Court) now would we? Schizophrenic isn't it?
DeleteOne blanket and one ham pales to what is really going on here..just a waste of time and money? What a poor person would give to have a Blanket or a slice of ham? Man people are hurting znd this is how we do it...shame shame I know your Name...all of your names. This is so heavy handed. Yep, you bet I want to see how much?
DeleteThe wouldn't want to hurt Osages they're afraid of no matter how much money they've embezzled and that's the truth of it.
DeleteBoone's Bulletin 7-12-15
ReplyDeleteChief Standingbear has decided to charge the shareholders for certain functions that have been performed free of charge in the past. Ac-
counting pays our bills, the IT dept. provides technical computer support and the janitor provides cleaning services. Beginning October 1
the shareholders will be charged for these services and others unless we contract these ourselves.
A hearing for the declaratory judgment lawsuit against the Osage Minerals Council (OMC)is scheduled for a hearing on July 20. Only 6 of the
OMC are effected because the two OMC who are employees, Andrew Yates and Talee Redcorn provided information to the court to get them excused from action taken against them as members of the OMC. This case is also referred to as ethics.
The OMC voted not once but twice not to sign a memorandum of understanding with the BIA regarding an environmental impact committee project. Councilman Galen Crum chose not to uphold the OMC vote. He went to the chief and was placed on the committee to represent the Osage Nation not the headright owners. In the past G. Crum has been called a carpetbagger. One of my constituents said he was guilty of treason. As I recall he first ran for congress but failed. His loyalty does not appear to be with the OMC.
We all voted to join the oil producers to hire someone to do research for a categoric exclusion regarding the American Burying Beetle, which
adversely affects the drilling permit process. The Osage County landowners, who have the BLM wild mustangs, received a categoric exclusion
from the beetle. It just made sense for us to try to get an exclusion too.
Six of the OMC voted to take legal action against the Dept. of Interior and Bureau of Indian affairs regarding the new rules for oil and
gas. We filed an injunction in federal court. The oil producers also filed an injunction. The judge, Greg Frizzell, has combined the two.
As a result, the new rules did not go into effect July 10 as scheduled. There will be a hearing on August 10. These new rules appear to
threaten the future of oil and gas production in Osage County. As you know, less production means less money on our payment checks. Andrew
Yates and Galen Crum voted against taking this action.
We voted on a "no confidence" resolution on the Bureau of Indian Affairs superintendent. Everett Waller abstained, Andrew Yates and Galen
Crum voted "no".
We voted to honor our headright owner, Marguerite Dennison, when she turned 100 in May. We had a delightful time at her home in Cleveland,
full of family, friends and representatives of the OMC. Andrew Yates abstained on the vote, which is a "no" vote.
Any opinions expressed above are mine and are not representative of the whole council. As always, copies of any of the above information is
available upon request. You can reach me by telephone at home: 918-287-2920 or by cell: 918-698-3314.
Cynthia Boone, Your loyal Councilwoman
Cynthia thank you but most of this was already figured out by rumors or through the Grape vine..do appreciate the update.
DeleteCynthia didn't put this up here. It's her newsletter she sends out by e-mail.
DeleteOk still the same..day late dollar short.
Delete10:44, I think you'd grip if they hung you with a new rope.
DeleteTrending in the Energy sector Halliburton a major playler in the oil field services will be laying off 27,000 employees. Oil prices are still dropping. A total thus far since 2014 350,000 lost jobs Where is the help now and why isn't this being talked about...Housing industry at a 35 yr low..and you call thia a robust economy...I like how shillies sorry I don't think I spelled his name right, from Yale a Professor in what says he blames the economics of the situation as cultural and social media has changed people's values is a crock of you know what...over regulation has crippled and stagnation is on the rise if the feds raise the rates...to soon to high..My point is now we cut our loses move ahead and get these monkeys off our backs. 2015 the latter part of the year prices will edge higher and from this point on till 2017..into the beginning of 2018. Supply and demand. Now is a buying time for Gold..buy buy buy! If you can..what comes down will go up and what we are seeing is no accident. My bet prices will drop lower before we see it edge higher...hang in there everyone.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous
DeleteJuly 28, 2015 at 12:40 PM
With the OCC you will have the Oklahoma Courts too with jurisdiction in Osage County. It's a clever in, so we need to be careful about letting in the OCC anywhere in OC:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/01/us/oklahoma-court-rules-homeowners-can-sue-oil-companies-over-quakes.html?_r=3
osageblogger
July 28, 2015 at 2:25 PM
Well. This could wind up being the biggest boon for oil and gas in Osage County. As long as every county in OK may be under threat of a lawsuit by the home or landowner or both for earthquakes, Osage County will be exempt as long as the government of Oklahoma has no oil and gas jurisdiction because of the Federally held Osage income trust. Osage oil and gas men who now have leases may prove to be the luckiest oil and gas men in the State of Oklahoma. How is that for a turn of good fortune and a twist of fate?
Good news for Osage Co.
DeleteI'm afraid you will see just how long State law will have no jurisdiction if we start having earthquakes and tearing down buildings and hurting or killing people in the Osage. This is why our disposal operations must be strictly watched. If not, we could be the next ones to get shut down. This can be avoided if we are careful. We just don't need the State to do it.
DeleteEven the agents of the federal government are subject to state law when it isn't a power ceded by the states in the Constitution.
DeleteThis is Native American Tribal business with trust status involvement. The State would have to deal with the Federal government because they don't have jurisdiction in Osage County. The Feds are not subject to State laws in this matter. Where do you get this idea and cite the case where this has taken place with verifiable references, please.
DeleteThank you 11:58 for clearling that up where it concerns the State and Feds are concerned on this issue. I agree.
DeleteYou need look no further than the Tribal-State Gaming Compact Between the Osage Nation and the State of Oklahoma to see that the Osage Nation has recognized the authority of the State of Oklahoma when it comes to jurisdiction within Osage County. There are additional agreements, such as the Agreement for Cooperative Enforcement and Cross-Deputization by and Between the Osage Nation, the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the State of Oklahoma, et. al., the Tobacco Tax Compact, etc.
DeleteThe Cross-Deputization Agreement most clearly defines the surface area under Osage Nation and/or Federal control. It delineates what is defined as Indian Country in the term Geographic Location on page 2, and this definition is consistent with Federal law wherein the term Indian Country is defined at 18 U.S.C. § 1151.
As States are sovereign nations in their own right in all matters where powers are not ceded the Constitution of the United States, it retains authority to enforce its laws within its borders.
Even the Osage Nation Constitution recognize limitations of sovereignty to the territory to lands under its control. The case of Osage Nation v. Constance Irby, et. al. resulted in a determination that the reservation had been disestablished and not just diminished. Furthermore, the filing of two recent cases involving Osage LLC in an Oklahoma court shows the Osage Nation's deference to the laws of the State of Oklahoma in matters occurring outside the boundaries of Indian Country, as the complaints are based on violation of Oklahoma Statutes.
While it is without question that the rights to the Minerals Estate are reserved to the Osage Tribe, it is also without question that the State of Oklahoma may enforce its laws on all lands where Federal authority take precedence (e.g., lands meeting the statutory definition of Indian Country).
Finally, and most importantly, any lawsuit resulting from oil production would be brought against the producers and not the Osage Nation. There is no question of sovereignty, as the producers are private commercial entities which cannot assert claims of sovereignty. If by their acts, whether within or without Indian Country, are believed to cause harm to others not on Indian Lands then the matter would subject to dispute in an Oklahoma Court.
http://www.nigc.gov/Portals/0/NIGC%20Uploads/readingroom/compacts/Osage%20Nation%20of%20Oklahoma/osagenationcomp020905.pdf
https://www.walkingoncommonground.org/files/OK1%20Agreement%20for%20Cooperative%20Enforcement%20and%20Cross-Deputization%20by%20and%20between%20the%20Osage%20Nation,.pdf
I agree with 8:20 about the jurisdictional points particularly that the producers are the ones that suit would be brought against. However, I don't see how they could hope to prove their case. Oklahoma has natural faults and at least the most recent quakes have originated, I believe it was, three to six miles down. Sounds like another boon for the media and attorneys at the cost of everyone else.
DeleteExpound please, "any lawsuit resulting from oil production would be brought against the Producer's ". I find that curious.
DeleteSo then explain the complexity of the implications of the Federally Held ME income Trust where the income and minerals estate are concerned. We're not talking about gaming here, or the ON Police force including tobacco. If what you are suggesting is true then the Feds would never have gone to Court on the wind farm issue. There is no established governance of the Minerals Estate other than by the Feds through the BIA. At one meeting, the BIA told reps from the State of OK that the Osages had run their Minerals Estate for 100 years and will continue to do so. There is a jurisdiction here and the BIA along with the Osages have it in Osage County where the reserved mineral rights and the Trust are involved.
DeleteMost of the saltwater disposal wells (SWD) and enhanced oil recovery (EOR) injections wells inject saltwater into the same depleted reservoirs that oil and saltwater have been produced from. Many of these injection wells receive the saltwater being injected on a vacuum and others at low injection pressures and the saltwater is merely replacing the fluid that was previously extracted. A possible exception might be a few commercial disposal wells but I do not think there are very many of these commercial wells within Osage County.
DeleteThe SWD and EOR wells are strictly monitored by the EPA and the permits for same limit the injection rates and pressures according to the known characteristics of each well. I don’t think the operations of the Osage County SWD and EOR wells could contribute to the triggering of an earthquake. I think it would difficult for someone to prove otherwise. It wouldn’t surprise me if Gentner Drummond and Ted Turner make a run at it. It’s more likely that their Federal horses stomping around are more of an earthquake and beetle bug threat.
One of the things that is just astounding about these Osages who live back home who know nothing about their history as a Tribal people but won't hesitate to call you an ignorant outsider, is this: among others, one of the most important reasons the Osages always lived in a portable way with lodges and such that could be put up and taken down is because of the seismic activity over the hundreds of years in the OK, MO, AK and KS areas that they have occupied in the centuries past.
DeleteTo the poster at 9:54 AM. The pleading made by the BIA relates to extraction of minerals, and not about the wind farms per se. As much as the Osage would like to stop wind farm construction in Osage County, neither they nor the BIA has any grounds to do so. The claim presented was about an alleged illegal taking of stone which was crushed and used as backfill for the foundation of each wind mill. However, the applicable regulations only apply when a certain number of cubic yards of minerals are mined on a specific tract and not the county as a whole.
DeleteRegardless, the case does not involve a jurisdictional dispute. Neither party asserts that the State of Oklahoma has jurisdiction over the Minerals Estate, nor do they need to. The entire dispute arises under a Federal regulation governing the removal of stone for use by Enel's subsidiary (a U.S. domestic entity) in construction of wind farms, thus jurisdiction is with the Federal courts. The intent is clear that the allegations of an illegal taking were only made since no other means exist to stop wind farm construction.
The matter of the wind farms is irrelevant to oil production and potential damages to homeowners due to earthquakes, the severity of which is alleged to be increasing due to fracking.
To the poster at 9:35 AM. The producers are responsible for the technique used to extract the oil, barring some unknown and unforeseen clause in a lease which dictates the method(s) of production. The fact that the Osage Tribe owns mineral rights and leases the production of minerals (especially oil) makes the headright owners no more liable than if the minerals remained untouched. Any damages would be the result of the producers actions to remove the minerals, thus it is the producers who would suffer a judgment to compensate those harmed.
DeleteThe dispute would be a civil matter brought before a jury. The rules of evidence are such that a correlation between oil production and earthquakes need not be proven as a scientific certainty, but only to the satisfaction of the jury.
So what you are saying is any homeowner anywhere in Oklahoma can sue an oil and gas producer in Osage County if there is an earthquake? That's a little hard to believe. I guess I'm confused. What are we talking about here? Wind farms or earthquakes?
DeleteWhy is there talk about the OCC having or starting to have jurisdiction in Osage County.
DeleteSorry, wind farm jurisdiction.
DeleteTo the poster at 2:22 PM. The conversation is related to oil production and the OCC's jurisdiction in Osage County. The discussion of impact on the producers is based on an article where homeowners were permitted to sue oil companies (see below). The geographical area involved for which a suit may be brought, and against which producer's (based on location of operations), would remain up to the judge hearing the case.
Deletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/01/us/oklahoma-court-rules-homeowners-can-sue-oil-companies-over-quakes.html?_r=3
The BIA hasn't approved many leases for drilling in the last few years is my understanding. There couldn't be too many new wells out there to do much damage. We need to get the MC to give us info in writing on what's going on.. Where is the daily log of HPP history we use to have on the minerals web? Really! Why can't we hire someone? Someone take this up at a meeting, please.
ReplyDeleteI had wondered the same as well this was one way for monitoring the Activity. Not that I am not aware of the fact that we had a pretty good run int he last eight years but progress is where we need to be and this was a good indicator and one way the shareholders could see for themselves. To the M.C please post the data again.
DeleteWhy don't you silly people pay attention for once and look around on the internet before you make these foolish statements? HPP is listed TODAY at $44.50 on the MINERALS COUNCIL WEB SITE!
Deletehttps://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/minerals-council
What was it last week, smart a$$?
DeleteTo poster 11:10 am I was under the assumption we were taking about the spread sheet of the highest paid price through the years. Those are not posted like they used to be. And second why go anywhere when you can find the numbers easily posted on oil-price.net. And for the foremost if we had a working office full time their would be no reason not to update the web daily right, get our money working for us, right.
DeleteGet in touch with Kathryn Redcorn. She used to be really good about making sure the log was up to date. If you click on the text under the HPP daily listing, it will give you those numbers up to the first of the year.
DeleteClick on "HPP History"
DeleteWho are you dummies? Have any of you went to HPP and clicked on it? Nothing there since 2011, and its not what real HR owners need to know. Either we have kids posting on here that don't know what's going on or mental problem people. There's things on here, I can't believe they're real HR owners. Catherine's a nice lady, but does not have the right frame of mind to even go where she is talking. Why did she take it on herself to see the chief without taking this up with the others? This lady is dangerous. I think she's done more harm that good. What all was said? I think she'd try to talk a snake out of biting her! if that tells you anything.
DeleteWho is the dummy here? Click on the tab marked "Daily Prices" and it gives you the HPP through 1/26/2015 listed at $42.01. Sheesh !!!
DeleteAny dummy knows that. You miss the point. I'm 70 been at this a long time. Keep my own daily records when they are posted since we no longer have them like they used to be put on the mineral web site.. And watch the markets, because the shareholders aren't getting info we should.
DeleteThe lollapalooza MC meeting last Wed. is now online for audio listening --->>>
ReplyDeletehttps://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/minerals-council/meeting-information
One thing that's important to remember in all this "send a special invitation to the Chief" hullabaloo is that the Chief is free to attend and request to speak at any time. The vice-Chief acted as the Chief's liaison at OMC meetings when this council took their seats. It was only when the Chief's liaison was not allowed in executive session that the Chief's representative, of the Chief's own volition, quit attending.
DeleteSeeing as the Nation is now in the energy production business with the ONEs, by no means should the liaison be there. Had he been allowed to attend he would have been privy to proprietary information developed by producers wishing to do business with the M.E., that information could have found it's way back to the ONEs. The point of the executive session is so that producers can freely share their plans and develop leases without revealing their positions to their competitors. When the Nation began developing the ONEs they effectively became a competitor to other producers and by that fact should not be allowed in the executive session. As was said in the OMC meeting no one is barring the Chief or his liaison from attending or speaking they just can't sit in on executive sessions.
See your point...really all we have to do is not do business with Ones right Chief.
DeleteHow would the Land inro Trust fix allow us to control our tust asset?
ReplyDeleteNot sure what your question is but if we owned the land there is less conflict with the surface owner and if it's in trust jurisdiction is ours. This is a moot point however because the Nation doesn't buy large tracts of land. I have heard first hand that they and many of their constituents think that the acquisition of land is a waste of money. Their policies and spending history certainly support this. They would rather us spend our resources on industry and job creation. Personally I disagree with their approach but I am by far in the minority on this issue. The power brokers in Osage county aren't the casino owners they are, without a doubt, the land barons.
DeleteThe Osage Nation would first have to find countless of billions of dollars in order to buy up the land inside Osage County. Without having control over the entire county, the tribe would still only have jurisdiction over the tracts it owns and has placed in trust.
Delete$19,000,000.00 flushed down the LLC toilet would get approximately 19,000 acres depending on where and what you're buying. That would have been a start. If nothing else we could have been making a quarter million a year in rent, if it was good grass. At least would have something to show for it other than some fat CEOs.
DeleteI keep hearing how the Minerals Council needs to work with the Chief and the Chief is the only one the feds will recognize, I don't think the evidence supports the latter statement. In minerals matters the FEDs meet with the OMC, granted the Chief has injected himself in some discussions but the discussion is with the OMC. I don't see how any other claim can legitimately be made. I think that whole argument is little more than grade-school reasoning made to conveniently serve a desired end. Tribes have many forms of government raging from theocracies to democracies and everything in between. As long as the federal official knows this is the decision maker for this issue from whatever tribe that's who they are going to deal with, it's done all the time.
ReplyDeleteWith regard to the OMC working with the Chief that is a conflict of interest. Not only is the Chief elected by members other than the shareholders, not only does he have to answer to the wants and needs other than those of the shareholders, most importantly, the minute the Nation went into the energy production business he now sits firmly on the other side of the equation. As the head of the government and all it's entities he is ultimately the head of the ONEs. While I am certain he doesn't inject himself into their day to day affairs, in part, his success as Chief depends on the success of the Nations endeavors, of which the ONEs are certainly apart. This makes the Nation in it's relation to the Mineral Estate no more than another producer. Would you want a producer representing us to the FEDs? Of course not because it's a conflict. This is no different. Who will the Chief's loyalty and concern lay with, the preservation of the Mineral Estate or the success of the ONEs. Simply by his position as Chief and head of the Nation's many interests he can't represent and be fair to both. Neither the Mineral Estate or the ONEs should want that, both should want a champion trumpeting their cause independently working for the best position for each.
I fail, day after day, to understand this insistence on the Chief's inclusion and "unity" with the Chief's office or consultation with the Chief. The popular claim that the OMC should consult the Chief on legal matters is a conflict, by his position he can't serve as impartial council. That the Chief should represent the shareholders, again it's a conflict, he is the ultimate executive of the Nation's energy development aspirations. What is to be gained by a unity that gives away the OMC's authority to a Chief with apposing interests?
We can be united in our dances, in our churches, in our culture in general, and I think we mostly are and that's great. However business doesn't work that way. We need to be strong advocates for our own interest and assets. It's fool hardy at best to leave it to someone else and hope the actions they take benefit us. We as shareholders can not let shortsighted, feel-good "unity" dictate the fate of our assets. We are already united, we go to the dances, we shake hands, we eat, we laugh, we share commonality, so I have to ask who is this "unity" for and to what end? Is it just a buzz word to make us feel good about the taking of our assets? What does my income and it's source have to do with the good feelings and great food at committee dinner on Saturday? What does my income and it's source have to do with sitting and laughing in language class on Wednesday night? Why is "unity" conditional on giving up of control of my assets?
I truly fail to understand why so many Osages think this way.
You're clearly defined the proper roles of the Chief, MC and ONES. The problem stems from either a lack of knowledge of the necessity for operation at arms length or an unwillingness to do so. This was one of the great failures of the Osage LLC, and even now places not only the assets of Osage LLC at risk but also those of the Osage Nation.
DeleteI guess I'm on both sides of this question and my concerns are Osage Constitution related. Article XV, Section 2, outside of the management, administration and development of the minerals estate in Section 4, specifically has the minerals rights reserved to the Osage Nation. The income belongs to the Osage Nation before it's transferred to the OME Trust account by the Feds for quarterly disbursement to the headright owners and other purposes per the U.S. Congress 1938 Act to Amend the 1906 Allotment Act. As far as I can see the Osage Nation Constitution has created TWO parties in interest in the whole of Article XV because the titular head of the Osage Nation on a government to government relationship basis with regard to its owned and reserved assets is the Chief of the Osage Nation. He has the absolute right to act alone to protect those assets and fooling around with the Minerals Council trying to get legal permissions and MOUs and other such legal nonsense while leaving the assets he's fully and completely responsible for under the Osage Constitution and the 1906 Allotment Act as amended, leaving them wide open and without protection is unconscionable in my opinion. From my point of view, he doesn't need permission, an invitation or any other reason to act alone to protect these assets and he must do so severally or risk harm to them or perhaps the loss of them. Before you have income, you have to have the mineral rights protected and secured. Before you have income generated from the mineral rights to transfer to the OME trust account, you have to have the income protected as well. This is on the Chief and no one else. The Minerals Council has their own bailiwick and the Chief has his. The MC has stepped up and now it's the Chief's turn at bat and he had better take it now or risk losing the income against the new CFRs that will kill off at least 60% of the business in Osage County.
DeleteI totally agree. The Chief needs to stop legally pussyfooting around and get down to business to protect his part of the assets of the mineral estate. He's responsible and he needs to get it done before it's too late.
DeleteWhile the Osage constitution may put the Chief as head, for the purpose of government to government relations, on minerals matter the US government consistently consults with the OMC.
DeleteWhatever the Osage constitution says aside, this does nothing to resolve the conflicts in the above post. Not only does the Chief represent parties who are not concerned with the M.E., some maybe even hostile to it, he represents the Nation's energy development aspirations. If nothing else, that puts the office of the Chief in potential conflict with the administration and development of the Mineral Estate. Neither side should want him functioning both as lessor and lessee, royalty owner and producer. It is a fundamental flaw.
You have failed to read Article X, Section 8. Independence of Boards and Commissions. Further, you need to look at the governing documents of the ONES, LLC as to the business independence set forth by resolution of the Osage Nation Congress and signed by the then Chief. You are spinning a yarn here from a legal standpoint that anyone with any knowledge of the situation can punch a hole right through. The Chief is responsible for the mineral assets of the Osage Nation as set forth by the Osage Nation Constitution and that's all there is to that. No spin will make any difference from a legal standpoint. Do the work to read the Osage Constitution and it's all laid out for you in black and white.
DeleteThat's a perfect post thank you. Geoffrey need to tend to his own barren chikens and stay the h#*l out of minerals.
DeleteAs Principle Chief of the Osage Nation,Our Chief can not drop the ball and must be allowed not to drop the ball.Every new Osage day is being bushed whacked from the last day,but even going further its being bushed whacked from many generations of Osage concerns.Even if one can or could get 99% of the Osage on the same page,than 1% can and does control Osage future,which makes the Osage different than any other of the Peoples who claim and maintain the right of authority,who live between the two great waters.We the Osage are more traditional than that which we assume to be civilized.
DeleteI know for fact we are born into this world,with traditional inherited remembrance of thousands of years.Maybe its time to breath new life,into our our 1% er's.We are not your enemy nor we ever will be,thats what we born with.respect and honor our elders and their council of elders.The world is full of gifts,modern gifts which should be laid before the feet of the Osage.
11:38, it's just my view, but that the CFRs, per the 1906 act, as they currently stand are the governing body of the Mineral Estate. The Osage constitution cannot and does not trump them in any way shape or form. Which is why when the FEDs want to talk minerals matters they talk to the OMC. Per the standing CFRs the Mineral Estate is retained in trust for the Tribe, not the Nation. The tribe is described as the lineal descendants of the original allottees with a headright. Which in my opinion is why the Nation continues to constantly insert "Nation" into every document, CFRs included, that has to do with the Mineral Estate. While the Osage constitution may empower the Chief of the Nation the FEDs are going by federal law which vests authority in the minerals council, thus necessitating the MOU, resolution and permissions. Before the FEDs will recognize him he has to have authority from the OMC, otherwise I believe any Chief would be in the middle of their business.
DeleteThis is just my perspective no "spin", you're free to have yours.
What is to be gained by having the Chief inject himself into this rather than letting Minerals deal with it?
All right, John. Get to laying those modern gifts at our feet today. LOL. Who BTW did you have in mind is going to be doing the honors?
DeleteBy Federal law otherwise known as Acts of the U.S. Congress are the mineral rights reserved to the Osage Nation, the Federally recognized legal survivor in interest to all assets of the Osage Tribe. The Osage Nation Constitution affirms this in Article XV, Section 2. Do the work and read your governing document.
DeleteJohn, these question are just points of curiosity and I don't mean any offense rather genuine curiosity and concern.
DeleteHow are the 1% of Osages (I assume you mean headright holders) controlling the Osage government?
Why does this Osage government have or need to have a claim to administrate my assets?
What does any of this have to do with being Osage?
How are Osages not united (in the important ways)? This is just money and assets.
This is much a question as it a statement, but in my exploration to understand the Facebook "Unity" phenomenon I am left wondering where it's coming from. Is it from Facebook Osages who aren't in any other way engaged in their culture? Does it just feel good to say? What does Osage unity look like to you with respect to headright holders? These are honest question I am just seeking to understand.
From my perspective it seems like the Facebook Osages are saying, "My arm's broken, break yours too so that we're alike."
Your interpretation of the applicable federal law is flawed. The 1906 Act vests ownership in the Minerals Estate in the Osage Tribe, which is defined therein as only those Osage who hold headrights therein. Public Law 108-431 granted the Osage to form a constitutional government, with the express restriction that it not diminish the rights of shareholders in the mineral estate.
DeleteTo quote: "Congress hereby reaffirms the inherent sovereign right of the Osage Tribe to determine its own membership, provided that the rights of any person to Osage mineral estate shares are not diminished thereby."
Where the constitution or actions of the Osage Nation diminish the rights of an person to mineral estate shares, it is unlawful.
Public Law 108-431
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-108publ431/pdf/PLAW-108publ431.pdf
If every Osage member was given one unit of 2229000000 units of headrights,would that 1 millionth unit matter who is more Osage than any other who has more?most likly yes,it would just start another round fighting.can't win for losing.Rumor has it headrights have been given back to the Osage Tribe or Osage Nation.If true where are they,who controls them?If the MC controls them,who benefits from them,just Osage shareholders or all of the shareholders? If the Osage Nation controls them and somehow the revenue is placed into general funding,then each of the Osage membership benefits in some way or another.
Delete12:20, the reality on the ground is whenever minerals matters are being discussed the DOI comes to the OMC, they do that for a reason. I will guarantee that reason has nothing to do with the Osage constitution. When the state was taking our rock they had to come and deal with the OMC. When the DOJ filed suit against ENEL it was with request and direction of the BIA and the OMC. It had nothing to do with the Chief. If you recall he was going to go arrest and prosecute non-Osages on non-Osage land, something laughable on it's face. When Mike Black and Venesa Hodge came down here it was the OMC they met with. The feds do this because their trust responsibility is with the Osage shareholder and they know if they go around the OMC they are opening themselves up to a huge lawsuit.
DeleteYou may think me a simpleton, but in this case I think the actions of the feds speak loader than any words written in the Osage constitution with regard to the disposition of the mineral estate. The feds may like to be rid of us and scrape us off but they haven't managed to do it yet, no thanks to the Nation.
John, I still fail to see what money matters have to do with being Osage. I've never met any Osage who thought he was more Osage because of the amount of headrights he has. There are a lot of Kiowa's, Otoes, etc. who are 1/32 Osage that think they are more Osage (different issue) but my experience is Osages seldom even discuss the amount if any headright they have. Your experience may be different.
DeleteWhy do all Osages need to benefit from a, or all shares? Isn't that what the Casino's and LLCs are for?
The only headright the Nation has is one that was left to them some years ago, I believe in the 80s or 90s, to create a scholarship fund. I don't remember but I think it was less than a full share, for what that's worth.
Some churches have tried to return headrights but have been told no method of taking them back exists and so they have not been accepted by the BIA.
To me the way we voted on this new constitution was illegal in the first place. Why my cousins that weren't shareholders had a say to vote over the minerals is wrong. Gray messed it all up.
DeleteLet me see when did everyone realize the Chief is a Conflict? Lol..Hostile does not do Justice.. we get the Big Picture poster @ 9:23 am Brought this up a while back when we heard first about One's. Your take ever so eloquent. And thank you..There is not just this conflict but many other conflicts of interest all over the place and as I said before we have a billion dollar business should never be ran like a arm chair coach..right. and how is unity creating progress or making money.? There is still going to be a rough times ahead..the truth always reveals itself..remember 10% is life 90% is what you do. The headrights will forever stay in tact, as we are who we are, descendants of original allottees. Shareholders and brother and sister Osages..Government can't create jobs as much as they can't stop spending. This was not the Government our people wanted..John, I have to agree with poster 1:05 pm..what we need is organization, This dance has been going on to long, this childish tug a war...One's will not come in and produce..this would eliminate competition end of the story. And Chief wd know what side of tge Fence you are on.
DeleteThe only times one will see anything written on money matters by myself for decades has been a Osage War Chest and a statement of fact It would take 100's of millions of dollars needed to get the management of the ME to where it needs to be,something the feds has already told the federal courts they are not going to spend.So when we hear the shareholders took the money and ran,the feds were saying you had money to correct the problems but choose not to,hence the feds put everything on the Osage fault and this is where federal courts will come into play.I've been around Osage politics since 1979,never been about money but about a sense of place,a kinship,to be a legal Osage.
ReplyDeleteJohn, I like your statements about kinship and place, that's what's important. Personally I don't see the big deal with being a "legal" Osage but that's beside the point. We're all legal Osages now.
DeleteAs for the settlement we took, by federal law there is nothing we or the FEDs could do with it other than disperse it to the shareholders. It's a matter of law, no preference no debate no questions. Other than the mandated million dollar operating expense for the OMC everything has to be dispersed. No one could do anything else with it if they wanted to. Besides it's the FEDs who caused the problems and it's FEDs problems to clean up. If they don't in a few years we will be back in court again and they will be writing another large check again. Our job is to make sure they are addressing the problems cleaning up their mess and where they aren't document it for future litigation.
The point is, the problems weren't ours to correct and we don't want to take on those problems and thereby diminish the responsibility the federal government owes us.
Well said poster 3:51 pm...
DeleteAmen, 3:51.
DeleteThis thread is now closed. Go to: http://osageblog.blogspot.com/2015/07/osage-shareholder-matters-july-2015-iii.html
ReplyDelete