Comments and reactions from today's Special Minerals Council meeting are located at http://osageblog.blogspot.com/2015/08/osage-shareholder-matters-august-2015-ii.html
Standing Bear on status of Mineral Estate: ‘Pandora’s box has been opened’ AND WHO THE HOLY HELL WAS IT WHO OPENED IT CHIEF? http://osagenews.org/en/article/2015/08/31/standing-bear-status-mineral-estate-pandoras-box-has-been-opened/
If a compact with the OCC or a TERA will end the Federally held OME income trust, what "trust" is Talee talking about in the article? A new one altogether and if so WHO WILL BENEFIT AND BECOME THE BENEFICIARIES OF IT? Talee: “I think it’s time to act and we’re going to have to do something, make some strong decisions, to make sure this trust is held for the future of the Osage.”"
If the OCC is coming as some are hoping, you might want to sign up for this upcoming workshop. “OCC WORKSHOP FOR NON-RESIDENT OKLAHOMA ROYALTY OWNERS” “Managing Your Minerals for Fun and Profit” “How to Check Title in Your Pajamas Without Leaving Your House. " http://www.occeweb.com/og/PubAsst/FLWorkshopNotice.pdf
Why the hell did it take a damn week for the Chief to inform us of this meeting that he had with the Senator's staffers? He should have put a press release in writing long before this. The MC meeting last week was just a sideshow. The real situation was presented to the Chief at the formal meeting in Bartlesville and he keeps it quiet until now? What would have happened if he had never had the MC meeting today? WHEN WAS HE GOING TO INFORM THE HEADRIGHT ANNUITANTS? Next week? Next month? When the deal was done? Kick this sneaking sidewinding screwball out of office who does not have our best interest at heart or in mind. This man is exactly as was written on the last shareholder page here, a danger to all of us headright owners much more than the new CFRs and the Donalson situation combined.
August 31, 2015 at 5:40 PM is this a joke? Are you a joker here or what? Who are the some who are hoping? YOU? Slap us in the face with this crap from the OCC? We'll see about that...
The Chief and Maria Whitehorn were in Washington D.C., a while back. Is this what the two of them were cooking up behind our backs as the two top officials of the Osage Nation government?
Wanted to put this up again -- I for one am getting to the point I can't believe anything I read anymore. "[Corporation Commission jurisdiction] would mean the end of the trust relationship,” Standing Bear said. “And that would be resisted by the Osage Nation and every tribe in the country. We believe it would lead to great conflict, and we’ve had enough conflict.” ref; http://barnsdalltimes.com/http:/barnsdalltimes.com/news/chief-keep-occ-paws-off-trust . Words matter, WTH is it from Pawhuska?
We were warned over and over again about what this avarice would lead to and here it is with all these government Osages having done what it took to take our minerals income away from us and lose the Trust. Galen Crum and Andrew Yates and Sonny Abbot, do you really think you could destroy our mineral estate and get away with it?
to the poster @ August 31, 2015 at 5:50 PM Try to realize what stupid options we are being offered! It is not a joke. What it is sad are the alternatives are as foolish as these. The BIA who it is said is sitting on 400 drill permits, a Chief intended on having it both ways & a OMC whose resolutions mean nothing. No, I am not a 'Joker' just a Shareholder whose options are running out. We must realize this & create a direction collectively that does not rely on such limp options as the BIA, OMC or ON... Reality must be hard for you to swallow!
You must not understand your reality. In the situation we are facing right now, you have been informed earlier today that you are no longer a shareholder because the OME Trust is BUSTED from which you derive your income in your quarterly checks. You may have a headright but whatever payments will be going out, won't be going out to you or any other headright owner with a share in whole or in part. DO YOU GET WHAT IS GOING ON HERE AT ALL?
5:54 this is exactly what they were cooking up. The Chief saw he had no chance in court to take the mineral estate so he ran crying to Washington. The Nation has screwed us and has put the entire mineral estate in jeopardy and the G*D D#mn facebook crowd is still trying to blame stephanie and cynthia. Those greedy, whatever you want to call them on the hill, have done nothing, NOT ONE DAMN THING, with this government from day one other than spend money like a bunch of drunks and think of ways to get their selfish talons on the mineral estate. But I never, honest to god, never thought they would be so stupid as to risk losing the whole thing. That chief is no better and just as money hungry as the guardians who swindled, stole and killed our grandparents. Only he's worse because he's Osage. And that Whitehorn set there and watched it happen, maybe even helped.
So its not is if the signs weren't there. We can complain but in my opinion the Chief has abused his Authority. This is what happens when one person has absolute power. He doesn't. We do. The moral majority. It is time we the Shareholder's unite and come to a concensus. We have a renegade Chief and a M.C divided. This you can blame your 30th and 31st council. Who sat on those Councils? They sold us out. Maybe not understanding the full extent of the consequences. Remember we are the moral majority not the Government of lies and the few. I move for a Osage Constitutional Convention. Remove our Chief who has defected for ones agenda that has been considered a threat to the M.E., in corporate espionage what happens when a body of people are divided , theres collateral damage. Everyone on the M.C should be removed. These actions are necessary and most unfortunate but this is what happens when the Shareholder's are lied to. As I have said before actions speak louder than words or lack of. I for one want an audit of the Estate and I want to go back to 75 dollars a meeting. I want to know through the opem records act how and when our money is being spent on don't you? Don't you want to have an structured office eith a foundation built with skilled innovative technicians in the field and office. I want to build relationships with the producers and land owners. Condition is everything and we don't even have that. Wht0y put off what we can no longer ignore, nor should the Shareholder's keep their blinders on, nor can we stand by the sidelines anylonger.
To listen to yesterday's meeting from the Osage Nation's MC section of the web site, see http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/minerals-council/meeting-information
What good with this do now? "Amid lawsuits, BIA director to visit Osage Nation in September" --->>> http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/amid-lawsuits-bia-director-to-visit-osage-nation-in-september/article_f27809ae-6b22-59c2-9ca7-c068593dac9f.html
I'm really not sure. It looks like they've lost it to the Oklahoma Corporation Commission. We have no idea what they'll come up with next. If the Trust is busted as some on here think is really happening, we might be lucky to see the December payment. In the meeting they mentioned that one of the staffers said that it could happen fast so who knows what's up ahead.
Yes there's going to be payments. As long as the oil is pumped. Stop these scare rumors. Let's see what comes out of this meeting and go from there. Our MC still have some power. We need to stop this damn chief. What the hell did Catherine Redcorn say to him with her invite?
I don't believe any of this will have to be put to a vote to the shareholders. No more than when Jim Gray formed the Nation that is absorbing us. The shareholders weren't consulted about that before Jimmy signed up anyone he thought was Osage and had them vote and determine our future. There was certainly no shareholder consultation before that.
But if you listened to the podcast on the special meeting yesterday, the Chief made the most important point - namely that if the BIA is no longer involved, then the actions within the County are no longer Federal actions. That means no more NEPA and Gentner Drummond can be shooting blanks. He also said that TARA is not talking about removing the BIA from all activities. Presumably the BIA could still handle accounting and another vehicle could handle oil and gas permitting etc.- and no I'm not suggesting the OCC.
You still must have a regulatory body in there WITH REGULATIONS to control the Osage Mineral Estate. You can't fly blind and work without a regulations in place 24/7. Now, as I understand it, there will have to be a transition from the BIA because the TERA concept hasn't been finished from a legislative standpoint and if it's not finished it still has to go through two houses of the U.S. Congress for a vote up or down and when in final form, it's sent to the President for his signature. This process could still take many years.
When the staffers came, they suggested a transition to the OCC for a short period of time. You weren't born yesterday and neither was I. This is substantially a slight of hand to get those oil and gas producers back to work as soon as possible and stop impoverishing the entire county. Once the OCC is in place, you have no guarantees that the BIA will even want to come back in and manage the Mineral Estate in any capacity and with what regulations? The Osage Nation has a hell of a time coming up with policies and procedures for the Nation's employees. Do you actually think they can be relied upon to come up with regulations the oil and gas producers will live with? Once the OCC is in that's it folks and there are serious problems with trying to use the gross production taxes if you want to keep the mineral rights reserved and held in the hands of the Osage Nation for any length of time. Any State jurisdiction will subject the Osage Nation to the Courts in the State of Oklahoma and that will will be potentially problematic going in. All the BIA has to do to keep out of it is to pass on coming back in in any other capacity from a fiduciary standpoint and won't be responsible for anything other than accounting. I think we've been played since the day the HPP case settled and it was just a matter of getting it structured properly from the Federal side to work out a way to step out of the picture where the Osages are concerned. If this weren't so, why did the BIA substantially ignore most of the NegReg comments submitted and make changes to the new CFRs before the final version was announced last June? We aren't going to have some sort of special status going forward and because we don't own the surface land rights like the Utes do, there is very little room to maneuver from a regulatory standpoint. The only reason the Federal court took us seriously is because the oil and gas producers were there with us and more than any other party, they were the ones that brought this injunction over the goal line. As one Osage I know said, "If it wasn't for the white people in the County who went to court too, that injunction would never have happened. If you go with State jurisdiction, at any point along the way, it will stay that way and who knows what is coming next.
These are the hard core facts as they lay...poster 11:48 AM got it right..The Domino Affect. History repeats. Just a different day and time. The family dynamics have not really changed. Just the people. The meaning of insanity is, doing the same thing over again. This time around we get it and we can hit restart anytime now, right?
To the poster at 10:35 AM. The Chief is dead wrong about the jurisdiction of the Federal courts if the BIA is no longer involved. The National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) applies to every person and entity of the United States. There are some regulations specific to the BIA and BLM which would no longer apply except for drilling which occurs on trust lands, but it would have no effect on the Donelson case for which Drummond is counsel.
The poster @ 4:22PM is in error. NEPA applies only to Federal lands or land controlled by the BIA, BLM etc. If the BIA is no longer in control, NEPA is not an issue. Otherwise every other County in Oklahoma would have a compliance issue. Getting the BIA out of the County, except maybe for accounting purposes, would be a good thing. The Chief is on to something. Besides, if the BIA is so great, why did Judge Frizzell give them a big-time bloody nose?
NEPA is triggered by a federal action not by surface ownership. I make my living writing environmental documents for Indian mineral projects. Private surface over Indian minerals is called split estate. Drilling and Indian mineral well is a federal action and requires analysis under NEPA. Just bcs the Osage Agency didnt prepare proper NEPA documents doesnt mean federal environmental laws didnt exist. If a well is drilled into Osage mineral estate it requires a NEPA analysis. The OCC doesnt prepare those documents bcs they permit fee minerals. If you dont believe me call the Tulsa BLM office and ask about NEPA and Indian split estate. 918 621 4100
So this much we know. We do not want the OCC to come in. We know we have is a permitting problem at the BIA. At Administration level this office is not equipped to expidite in a timely manner is costing the M.E untold Millons and has proven to be grossly incompetent and has caused a tsunami of lawsuits. The redundancies and inefficiencies still exist after more than three years of the HPP settlement. Why hasn't itvat this point the M.C not assume these duties of which the Shareholder's are paying them to do what? And or why haven't we structured or developed a criteria to move in that direction for a better outcome?...however you look at this, the only difference I see is the problem is so simple..charge a permit fee mineral. The way I see it there is no way escaping NEPA requirements and EA. It exists within tbe guidelines of the OCC just communication between parties as it relates to the permitting process is structured in away that allows for the permits to go out in a timely manner. So tell me again why over three years has gone by since the HPP and we are no where prepared to make a better change for future of our M.E? Why do we not have a skilled working body working for us? My sentiment is only this, what is it going to take to wake up M.C all eyes are watching your next move.
We are all going to have to wait for the Mike Black meeting to find out what is going on from the point of view of the Bureau. It's that simple. We're not really going to know what the plan is until then. I suspect from all that has gone before that it's out of Osage hands altogether. http://osagenews.org/en/article/2015/08/25/bia-director-discuss-issues-involving-mineral-estate-sept-9/
So no matter which way we turn on the NEPA deal, we're still dead in the water without that new EIS? WTH happened to that old EIS in effect as a coverable set of regulations from the 1970's with permitting going on until the new EIS is ready? It seems the Bureau is dragging it's feet for no reason if there are applicable regulations that are already in effect.
The 1979 EIS is still in effect and does not expire. The BIA refuses to accept it now and they are obstructing the development of the ME. If the US government is so worried about the beetle bug they should come gather them up and start their own beetle bug farm at the White House grounds. We should charge them a fee of $5,000 per bug.
They need to be sued again. In the meantime, the Osage Nation, through the OMC, should issue their own permits to the producers and tell Obama and his obstructionists to pack up and leave. The Osage Nation could have the oil and gas purchasers pay the royalty directly to the OMC for distribution to the headright owners. Our Tribe needs to stand up to these bureaucrats. When the Chief went to Washington, he should have advised the aggressors as to what we were planning to do whether they liked it or not. The DOI/BIA is not doing their job and have damaged the ME again. It's time we take over. The Shareholders should allocate the funds necessary to hire experienced oil and gas executives to run things until the MC can replace them with their own qualified managers.
The new CFR's were drafted and almost implemented as retribution for the $380,000,000. settlement. It was to punish the Tribe for the settlement with the intent of shutting down oil and gas activity in Osage County. Revenge.
To the blogger @ 9:18AM, you missed the point. If the OMC, under TERA, governs its own affairs and the BIA is no longer involved, then it's no longer a Federal action. NEPA then does not apply. If you're an expert, reveal yourself and avail yourself to the OMC.
Poster 1:02Pm Buddy, if the Shareholder's have to make the move we a will be there..I am on the fence about Mike Black.. we still need to hold our ground and wear our Blankets and turn our backs on them as they have us. We do not want to hear excuses we want anwers. One question I want answered by him, why is he here and how did we get where we are at? And what is it going to take to shore up any and all redundancies and inefficiencies at the BIA? And it must be stressed no OCC period. We wznt an Audit if all accounts.
We should also Mike Black why his Superintendent is still threatening to fine our producers for violations of the new CFR's when the new CFR's have not taken affect as of this date and even after the Superintendent wrote a letter to the producers stating that we do not yet need to implement the CFR's. One of our producers received the threat of a $500/day fine eight days after Judge Frizzell's ruling temporarily blocking the new regs.
I would also like to know if the BIA plans to reimburse the producers for the extra expenses the BIA caused them to incur in the producers' efforts to come into compliance, and for no reason. Some operators such as myself spent thousands of dollars that were not necessary and which made no significant difference such as the new valves. A thief could still drop a hose in the pumper's "thief hatch" on top of the tank to suck out all the oil their tank truck could hold and these new seals won't stop that. The BIA should buy the valves back from us and reimburse us the cost that we incurred to install them. Likewise with the electric lines. Mike Black should bring a checkbook on September 9th.
Someone should also as Mr. Black why he has not removed and replaced the Superintendent which we all deem adversarial and incompetent.
RIGHT! Run it ourselves? Just like we were promised that there would be a per capita payment to all Osages from gaming proceeds if we voted for this self-destructive and thieving Constitutional government? It won't take long before Shannon Edwards and her ilk will build legislatively, a bureaucratic minerals empire of two to three hundred employees of this so called Mineral Estate division that will include a compliance department with a platoon of compliance officers, a Board and Board members , a commission and who knows how many commissioners, office workers, field workers, an Engineering Office replete with who knows how many of them on salary, a legal department and who knows how many of them on salary a Seismic Office, a Land Office, Land Men a plenty and pretty soon whatever payment was distributed quarterly will be eaten up in less than a year and you'll be lucky to get a check for $10.00 a quarter if that. What do you take us for? You must be an idiot of some kind. If you live outside of Osage County and the Osages start running things with royalty and bonus payments given to the Osage Nation instead of the current Federal Trust account you won't even get a share as a shareholder anyway because then, they will be in a position to create a new list of minerals estate shareholders with blood quantum as a requirement to receive a share. You are either stupid because you take us all for stupid or you're that way to begin with. Regardless, GIVE US A BREAK!
Wow! I'm not feeling the love here. I was thinking more like a staff of a few bookkeepers, a consulting petroleum engineer to review the permits and several IT personnel for data inputting and well permitting and a few field inspectors to spot check field operations.
This is a multi-billion dollar asset and should be able to justify a reasonable professional management staff. The Shareholders are too spoiled by the free BIA management. How's that working out for you now? If things continue to deteriorate at this rate, there will not be a ME to manage soon. The oil producers are diverting their funds to more friendly areas and no new operators are coming in to take their place. If I could sell my production I would have already been gone. Every operator I know feels the same way. We can't sell our leases due to the cloud on our title by the Donnelson-Friend lawsuit and the BIA shut-down of all activity. We are not allowed to drill new wells and not allowed to work on our existing wells when they need formation treatment.
Yes, I say run it yourself, otherwise and soon, there will not be any wells to produce if you let Obama keep having his way with you. I say stand up to the feds and escort them of the reservation. The operators could even self-govern until you get it together. Most of us are honest and respectable operators. We could assist you in your efforts and maybe even lend some of our trained personnel at no cost to you on a temporary basis while you build your own management team. We could rotate some of our techs and field personnel.
You don't know the Osage government and you can never underestimate the bottomless greed of these Osage County government Osages. In 2006, before the vote on the Osage Constitution, there were about 10-15 departments with a staff of maybe 100-200 total employees and that included those hired at the Osage Agency running on about $350,000 to $400,000. Now there are + or - 550 employees with departments, offices, divisions, boards and commissions upwards of FORTY-FIVE of them total and that may not account for and include the study groups and various and other sundry that are sucking off the Osage Nation's teats. Last year we ripped through a total of amount, all in, of roughly $60,000,000 to $65,000,000 !!! So please don't talk to US about feeling the love. And don't even think about asking US to turn around. DANG IS DAMN RIGHT !!!
This is about the interests of the Shareholders and payment continuing forward for the headright owners. The Osage Nation will be a nightmare of literally Titianic proportions if you let them run this mineral estate business. They will run it right into the ground in record time. You shouldn't even suggest it because you will be 1000% worse off in a year or less if you think this is an option. They are exactly like high school football stars who head out into the real world thinking they own it and are entitled to whatever they want without any ability to make whatever they want happen successfully. If you even so much as expect them to put in solid day's work and ask them to expidite anything, they will put whatever you want them to do in the bottom of the drawer, forgotten until the next employee who replaces them finds it later. Don't think for a second that I'm kidding. These Osages are erudite Grand Masters of the Art of passive-agressive behavior in no uncertain terms and punishing is putting it lightly if you can't be satisfied with Indian Time. Half of them can't do what they are hired to do and so another is hired to do the job who can only handle 50% of the job description and then a third is hired who may or may not be able to get the job done any better than the other two employees who are still on the payroll. They are there for the paycheck but don't want to work for it and don't really know how to set about doing the work anyway. Next you'll be subject to some relative of the Chief or of an Osage family with a high vote count in the position of managing director who will do absolutely nothing about whatever it is that you need them to do to get the employee to do the work you need to have done. You have no idea what you are doing if you think this is an actionable idea. A worse case scenario is putting it nicely. Half the battle is getting them to show up for work and stay there for the rest of the day. I'm sorry to have to put it to you like this but there it is and if you can risk your business on a business environment like this then you won't be in business for long nor should you.
Holy smoke! Really? I guess you are just going to turn your blankets away from them and they will be so embarrassed that they will change their ways and loosen the chokehold on you.
I never suggested that the new Osage government get involved. I was suggesting that the Shareholders man-up and take over the control of their asset. I was suggesting that the Shareholders team-up with the producers and to hell with the Osage Nation and the Obama administration. Reclaim your mineral estate. Give the ON and Obama notice then take action. Make sure the news media is present for documentation. Don't just roll over and do nothing. You're getting ready to loose everything. Go for broke and make some waves. You don't have to take it anymore. What do you have to lose? It's going, gone, gone, gone. No new drills, no maintenance on existing wells, operators not making additional investments, no new operators moving in to take their place. If I was Chairman of the OMC, I would call the Osage Nation Law enforcement officers and have them put on their riot gear and promptly remove every single BIA personnel off of the premises. Take their assets like Venezuela did to the USA and threaten them not to come back. Screw this administration and the horse they rode in on.
September 2, 2015 at 7:24 PM, I three wish we could all ride into the sunset but the shareholders are beneficiaries in a trust situation. If the Feds walk out on this particular trust created by the 1906 Allotment Act as amended and shut down its operation and existence, there are no shareholders or headright owners who will receive quarterly headright payments from a defunct Federal trust account. If the trust is dissolved, along with it go the beneficiaries and the income from the mineral rights then comes back out of the trust and is given to the Osage Nation as the legal owner of the reserved mineral rights and the income generated from them. It all devolves back directly to the Osage Nation government as so stated in the 1938 Act to amend the 1906 Allotment Act. We have no standing to take over anything if we are no longer beneficiaries of this trust if it is coming to a termination point by the Federal government. The Feds hold all the cards and always have where the headright owners are concerned. You have to have an ownership position legally to proceed with an idea like this and none of us know where we even are now and won't until Mike Black comes into town and tells us what's going to happen next.
BTW there, the OMC Chairman and every other member of the Minerals Council are Osage Nation elected officials and are paid directly out of the Osage Nation Treasury. They go renegade and the Chief could call a halt to the payment of their salaries and probably be able to get away with it. This is like one of those sleep paralysis dreams that you can't wake up from suspended in limbo and no way to move or even lift a finger. Horrible!
They are Elected officials but not by the Nation our Government. And they are not paid thru the Nation Treasury. This is paid thru a drawdown from the M.E owned by the Shareholder's. We are the ones who developed the Nation thru our M.E the first Casino built by using the M.E as collateral which the 30th and 31st council sold us out. Of which we yet have to yet collect on tbe collateral. I know this. Let the hammer fall where it does.
It was an Osage Nation election held under the auspices of the Minerals Estate with their rules. It was separate but it was still run under the auspices of the Osage Nation and not the BIA. Their paychecks may come from the drawdown out of the C395 account but I'm not even sure about that. Those checks may still come from the Osage Nation Treasury.
The Estate will not be dissolved. Silly bird. Had we been prepared and had a full running Petroleum office with a IT dept. with a skilled technician to handle the P.R we would not be seeing the fear mongering that is going on. Had we been kept in the know we could have spearheaded some of the law suits. Had we had ties of direct communication with our Land Owners and Producers we could have identified and worked directly to resove any issue that would arise. We have become so predictable and this is no accident. Change needs to come in the worst way. Statring with a New Body of M.C. No one who is directly affiliated with the Nation nor has worked for the Nation and would not be allowed to work for any other office at the same time. We know we have Moles. Bottom line, the Shareholder's will get their accountability and transparency. No kore monopoly on the poor decisions by our M.C without a vote from the Shareholder's.
That's correct, the minerals estate will not be dissolved. It will still exist but the full ownership of the reserved mineral rights and the royalty income coming from them that include leases and bonusus will be wholly owned by the Osage Nation government. Without a trust in place there can be no beneficiaries of the trust and this is the category that the Headright owners fall into in order to receive quarterly income from the Federally managed mineral estate Trust. If the DOI/BIA managed Federal Osage Mineral Estate Trust is coming to an end and is going to be dissolved by the U.S. Congress who holds the plenary power over all Tribal matters where the U.S. Government is concerned, the income will be collected by the owner of that income who will then be the Osage Nation. What I fear is that the current set of headright owners will then be pitted against the Osage Nation government itself. This may all have been caused because the Chief may have been trying to get the Feds in Washington D.C., to make a change to let the Osages manage the trust by themselves with minimal involvement of the BIA. From the meeting on Monday, it appears to me at least, that things have gone out of control and specifically that the Chief has lost control of the situation, probably as a result of the gross mismanagement of the Osage, LLC., and other business interests that that the Osage Nation has failed to manage properly. It's very likely that the U.S. Congress sees this as a very bad idea especially since there has also been a pitched battle going on on the part of the three new government Chiefs for Osage Nation overweaning control over the Minerals Estate where the Osage Minerals Council is concerned and such a constant tug of war is not conducive to a proper professional business environment in the oil and gas business. This is probably why the U,S. Congress is going with a transitional Plan B with a compact with the State government of Oklahoma. If we do well there then we can move to a TERA once the legislation has gone through the U.S. Congress and is signed by the President. Then we can begin to run the minerals estate ourselves but I don't think the current set of headright owners will be drawing a quarterly payment check at this juncture unless the U.S. Congress mandates that the current set of Shareholders today receive income under that compact. Once the Feds are out of the picture altogether under a TERA and are no longer involved, the Osage Nation government will then be in a position to reset the deck as to who receives income from the Osage Nation managed Mineral Estate under a TERA. Placing us in the path of Oklahoma State regulations is very problematic for the Osage Nation for one important reason and I don't really think this option is doable for that reason.
Two comments in the last several months have come out from two elected officials: "If John Red Eagle hadn't been thrown out of office this wouldn't even be happening." "Oil is down and it's a good time for the Nation to go in and take over."
Man, I have to agree with what you are saying..The Chiel as I pointed out earlier has gone renegade. Did he exercise independent judgement for the overall benefit of the M.E and all of its Shareholder's ?In the same capacity the M.C in this case we are dual sorta of speak, we are at arms length with the Nation, owe the same duty of good management. And then you have the bureau who seems to making up rules as they go along, I say this because in someone else's post I read sometime ago was the CFR's the M.C signed off to Washington was manipulated? Not just that the failure to maximize the M.E profit after three years since the HPP. Have the rights of the Shareholder's been abrogated at all directions it has..but we are not alone in this fight either..as oblique it is, the OCC will not come in, the Nation will not come in but what will come in is the Mighty Hammer of the Federal Court will have the last word with the Nation and State. Federal Law trumps and in this case no different will rule no other way in favor of the M.E ahd before the deck is served on a platter. Ours will be served as Desert Bon Appetit all a carte a Osage Constitutional Convention. Long live the 1906 Act and what truly being Sovereign means. Long live the Osage Tribe.
To poster @ 12:13 pm. I don't agree with your first comment because the only thing I can come up with why JRE got elected was for his inability to see the forest for the trees. And I think that says it as nicely as I can be. I believe he was played. To obvious. Second isn't so hard to believe, this tug a war has been going on for decades. But who ever you are. Stay tuned. This was not what our Elders expected or wanted I know this to be true. We are gearing for an Osage Constitutional Convention. We see it as the only alternative. And it is being discussed seriously.
Inertia is indeed killing us and all we still have today. http://osagenews.org/en/article/2015/09/02/osage-community-members-petition-government-action-wind-turbines/
There is no reason why a Osage Shareholder Constitutional Convention can not be done. With all the in fighting we see, chances are it would be another 10 years before a final draft would be ready for a final vote.We just don't have that kind of time.
Thank you. It isn't as if I had not pointed out a while back the direction we were moving in John. If I may call you by your first name. You know what we should do is have a private meeting draft a New Constitution and then with one phone call thats all it would take right? After all we are the( Moral Majority) right? I think we need to let the dust settle a little. Then we go in. In the mean while we can organize a strong foothold with all the Shareholder's for fiscal responsibility. We need to structure our MINERAL OFFICE. We need to move the M.C to the back, pay them their 75 dollars a meeting which would be 600 dollars a meeting, about 8400 a year give or take. Hire 8 preople for a petroleum office starting salary commences based on experience bonuses paid depending on performance. This should take care of the draw down.. A legal secretary can multi task and 2 doolars out of our checks would pay for her Salary and a bonus at the end of the year. Our success is built around the success of the M.E...information is elementary to the success of any business good or bad..time for the status quo to change. We have a future and the way I see it we need to act now.
How do we attain the Trust of 65% of the Osage Shareholder voting block? As Shareholders we must maintain our MC. There is a whole bunch of opportunities for unity.
Yes sir. I am diligently working on this matter. John believe it when I say the M.E will not be desolved. Let the dust settle a little. I know where the problems lie. I will be reaching out to all of you. You can't run a multi billion dollar Estate from the Arm Chair. I have IT technicians ready to come install with formatting programs that will assit in our development of the M.E. at a good price. This will Ll be shared and not under the sheets.I am already talking with other Shareholder's not just on this site but by phone as well. Who concur. The M.C does not have a clue how we feel about them or our Chief. We don't have to wait till Mike Black gets here and we don't have to wait to structure a foundation with a criteria that should have been implemented when the HPP suit was settled. And really if you think about it it should have happened in 2006. We can make this happen. We don't have a choice.
65% of the voting base would be more like 800. Not the entire shareholder's is it? Thats because of not everyone or shareholder's are completely comprised of our situation and that is no accident. In 2006 when we became a Nation John, and I being a huge stake owner in all of this did not get my Vote. Had I been comprised I would have said hail to the No. So do Osage Lives matter yeas they do. Part of the problem is when we became a Government it was to allow more membership. Then the Nation wanted to convert to citizenship which would have allowed for more taxation. And instead opened the Pandora's box to allow a vote in shareholder's matters by the constituency of which why? Those who are not Shareholder's or receive an annuity from the M.E how is it they get a vote in our matters? These laws are not to protect but pulmapulmagate the Nation so they can try to get control....not going to happen. Long over due should the damage be reversed into forward motion...As I have said before who is the one person who has led us in this direction and who still wants to keep the status quo I think has a lot to hide, because the truth is there for us to see. This is why we need to take control and look at exactly what Our M.C is getting paid for and how it is being spent in terms for the betterment of the Estate. I am one of those people in my expertise identify the problems and bring back the viability of a company that can turn this around to become effective and efficient. To many hands in the cookie jar.
If you look back at the history of the ratification of the Constitution of the United States you will see that the majority did not support it either, yet here we are. The small minority comprised of the legislatures held conventions and voted to dissolve the original Articles of Confederation and form a new government, even though the citizens feared what a monster it could become. More often than not, the majority is ruled by a manipulative minority who just won't follow the laws they establish.
I hear that at the next MC meeting a resolution is going to be presented to hand our Mineral Estate over to the Nation and the Chief. This is stupidity on an unprecedented scale. The Mineral Estate is sovereign. That has been addressed by the US Congress as far back as the 40s it has been reaffirmed by numerous court decisions most recently of which was on Aug. 10th of this year. We are SOVEREIGN. Now members of the OMC want to give that sovereignty away to the Nation. They want to give away your rights to determine your future. They want to give away your rights to administer your property. We shareholders can not let this action pass. Our sovereignty does not belong to any member of the OMC to give away. It belongs to the Osage shareholders not them. Don't buy into their scare tactics. It's all a ruse, call your US Congressman I did. That's all that these people who want to take us over have left, lies and scare tactics. Any resolution to hand over our Mineral Estate in part or entirety must be stopped.
I think you are mistaken about the next Osage Mineral Council meeting. The Council members are certainly concerned about the current situation and researching what can be done to protect the mineral estate but I do not think they are considering the actions you mention in your post.
Federal law is superior to any tribal or state law. I am a licensed attorney of our federal courts. As an Officer of the Court for 35 years I uphold the law. The posts which accuse me or my administration of seeking to violate federal law and my oath are false. The only way to lose your headright is to die. Then it must pass to your lineal heirs of Osage blood, but you can will it to an adopted child. You are allowed to leave a life estate to a living person but after their death it reverts to your heirs. No where does federal law allow any other path. The Osage Nation cannot be your heir, at all. The fight is really about the provision in the 1906 Act which was affected by the 2004 Osage Act which became federal law.
For a few decades,I have watched our Chief from a far.I have shared posts with him on many important issues concerning the Osage.He has given me peace many a time,to a point I didn't worry about those issues and I moved on towards other Osage issues. Just about everything which is Osage is under construction and after many decades of learning about the Osage issues and it is my opinion only.Chief Standing Bear is the best among the Osage at this time,to represent us as a People,a nation and all which is our Osage past.
How many of the Osage know of investors, who would invest in and among the Osage? Myself,the problem has always been instability,among the different groups which make up Osage Politics.Ever new Osage election, things change , a neverending circle.There comes a time when enough is enough.
Chief, the concern here is this; no one that I know of is under the understanding that anyone else can take your headright away but what happens to the income that comes from it that is dispersed by the OST from the Federal Trust account if this trust is terminated by the U.S. Congress and the account is closed? We are seeing the income dropping in this account as a result of various factors and because of that, the quarterly payment is dropping. If there is nothing, that is, no income and therefore no money being held in this account for disbursement to the headright owners because the account has been closed by the OST or the BIA, whoever handles this matter, there will be no payment checks issued. You can have headrights all day long but if there is no money in the trust account you won't receive OME generated income from it. What the question here is, is what is going to happen to the OME Federal Trust if we are going to transition to a compact with the State of Oklahoma and what will become of the current Trust account where the income from minerals royalties and bonuses is collected today for quarterly disbursement to the headright owners, for gross production taxes and the Mineral Council drawdown? Will this trust account remain intact and left alone and will the Feds continue to collect the OME income and deposit it into the current Federal trust account for quarterly disbursement to the current roster of Osage headright owners?
Chief, in my opinion you should answer these questions. This is your constituency who put you in office who has some real great concerns. Some of us do undestand the Politics sir and being political correct does not suit you well. Look at the largeness of the landscape and the longness of our History. So shall you dawn your true colors once again.Just read a good read. The People And the Word by Robert Allen Warrior.
To add to what 10:40 said, what happens to us if the Osage Nation takes us over. We may still have our headrights and the trust may still be intact but administration of the Mineral Estate would be reserved to a Nation that technically doesn't answer to us. Beyond that, in my opinion, it would be reserved to a Nation that has shown occasion after occasion it lacks the ability to prudently administrate much of anything be that casino construction, LLCs, investments, bloated personnel, or even a community garden. Off the top of my head I can't think on one instance in which the Nation has demonstrated vigilant or even reasonable management skills that would give me faith they have the capacity to administer the Mineral Estate.
And here's the kicker. If the Nation was to take administrative duties of the Mineral Estate and muck it up, as history indicated, the shareholders are left with no recourse. If we had to go to court the Feds would point at your government and walk away. We have no recourse in the Osage courts because the award of monetary damages, even in the case of demonstrated harm, are banned by the Osage constitution, not to mention you don't have the money anyway. But perhaps the biggest problem of all, the Nation does not answer to us (the shareholders). The Nation answers to some 19,000 disparate Osages around the globe (with some suggesting enrollment drives to increase that number to 26,000). Why would 4,006 shareholders expect they even have a chance at having a voice in that environment. Are we left only to hope that when pressure starts to build the Nation doesn't sell us out? Are we left only to hope if all this indebtedness the Nation is incurring is called in that our Mineral Estate might not be on the table in some fashion? If the Nation controls production they control the cash going into the trust. They can stop production and we are left with no recourse because then its a inter-tribal matter.
The courts have affirmed our (the Mineral Estates) inherent sovereignty by what logic should we give that away? I know the Nation is fond of signing away it's sovereignty for buildings, but if they ever get them paid for theoretically at least they get it back. We have to give away our sovereignty for ever. We give it to the Nation and it's gone forever and we get nothing in return. That would be just stupid on our part.
For my part I would like to see the Nation come up with some rational well laid out business models that make it a success. I would like to see the NEPOTISM that's strangling us stop. Quit skirting NIGC rules. I would like to see some people hauled into court and sent to jail for stealing from our LLCs. I would like some accountability. I would like to see some honesty rather than the instigation of drama. Work on these problems and quit going to Washington and "knocking on doors" complaining that the OMC won't talk to you. You were elected at large you represent a different constituency, come to terms with it. With what respect I can muster, just stay away from Minerals. You have enough of challenge on your plate.
I don't know how many times we have to remind them over and over and over and over again. Here is a comment on this Blog from Archive #19: Osage Shareholder Matters--May-June 2015:
"Again, we should reflect on the bill that was passed that gave us the opportunity to govern ourselves, P.L. 108-431. Read what was stated aloud on the floor of the Congress in the U.S. Congressional Record, V. 150, PT. 8, May 18, 2004 to June 1, 2004 with regard to the Headrights: "It is past time to consider letting the Osage Tribe determine how to govern itself as it sees fit, providing no one loses any property or other vested legal rights (like the loss of MEMBERSHIP in Shannon Edwards' Osage Nation Congressional Membership Bill of 2006?) in the process. H.R. 2912 (P.L. 108-431) includes language to insure that no one's interest in headright shares is touched. Headrights are private property, and there is no intent to affect them under this bill." https://books.google.com/books?id=DbK9zpJ1ipEC&pg=PA11080&lpg=PA11080&dq=Osage+Shareholders+Association&source=bl&ots=yW8woA9CoW&sig=Lx61C-0qgih6yN0zrJL8V3lkd80&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Wz5aVc_REYqWyQTM84HIAQ&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=Osage%20Shareholders%20Association&f=false
The personal property the U.S. Congress is referring to, from the headright; which is the right to receive the quarterly income from the Osage Mineral Estate, are to be left alone. What more do these government Osages need to understand this concept? Do they need to be slapped up the side of the head to get them to come to and wake up from their delusions of greed? They are letting this caustic greed steal their souls and it's destroying them with how rotten with it they with it are through and through. They need to get ahold of themselves before they destroy everything we have ever had or ever will. They are a clear and present danger to themselves and all of the rest of us combined. The Act we need is one of the Osage Nation Congress to pledge that they will never act against the headright owner's OME income interest or Federal law and prohibit any other branch of the Osage government from ever doing so now or or in the future.
Ok you brought it up, I wasn't. The cost overruns of the buildout of said Casino's in my experience in Construction these cost overruns fall back to the estimators of the job basically the company is responsible for covering the cost overruns that goes above the percentage of the cost overrun rate. Unless approved other wise. Then this comes back to the Dept of Appropriations. Office of Budget. On any job the foreman is not to Authorize any project, change in material or authorize addintional work force, be it hiring or authorizing overtime without notification are not consulting the contract or knows what is applicable for this Job..The foreman is to work with the superintendent directly. The Job should never continue with out one present. This is why a foreman gets good pay. I want to know how this job was marked up and the Company who did the JOB should absorb half the cost if not all. Yep it will go against their gross, but then theres way to absorb the cost...This is one example of many Chief that you now have the attention of the Minority again. Should we go underground again.
Ding ding ding, its great you point out the facts folks but read my question what provision in the 1906 act would affect the 2004 Act to be not in effect?
The few times I have been to any of the I'n-Lon-Schka's , I was never asked to leave or barred because I was not on the list of Osage shareholders. Does this mean anything at all in the world of the Osage. To me it does, it shows We are of the Osage.Our past our present and our future are inter linked without federal , state or world juristiction. But it took a act of US congress to legally accept the Osage as the People. But they went even further by re-affirming the Osage have always been the Osage , way before their claim of constitutional authority. Their bad not ours. This Osage fighting has just got to stop before it's too late.
A headright is much more than just a right to a portion of royalty interest. It includes the right to participate (through voting or running for office) in the election of the governing body charged with the mineral estate's administration. If the Osage Nation government exerts control over the mineral estate it would diminish the headright owners' rights in violation of the 2004 Act.
That's dead on 3:27. For such a simple concept so many in the Nation have such a hard time understanding it. Or at least they don't want to understand it.
To the poster at 12:06 PM. A contributing factor to the cost overruns is that Osage Manhattan Builders is a sham organization. OMB has not had employees, none of the Osage LLC management were qualified to manage construction projects, and all work was performed by Manhattan Builders. OMB was formed as a joint venture between Osage LLC and Manhattan Builders, a division of Manhattan Construction Company. The entire situation is a failure of the Enterprise Board, and of the Commerce and Economic Development Committee for not providing better oversight.
I see the big picture. Chief, please explain to your constituency how the Cost overruns happened with the build out of the Casinos. I want to know how this happened! To much room for corruption. From what I understand the Board didn't get under the terms and conditions of policy to get other bidders. Which the Contract was a fixed Contract by default. Manhattan Builders are on the hook for going above the estimate. This is why it is so paramount to understanding what the contract consists and know the plans...I am in Contruction..Paving. you get hit from all directions from drivers wanting overtime, to your labor wanting Overtime..to Asphalt Companies trying to get away with going over on material...from rentals and so forth...not to this magnitude. You have to verify, or your company is on the hook...so by the way it looks the money is being laundered...just keeping it real..I am in accounting as well..
About the BIA Director Mike Black meeting, what in the world is he going to be talking about for 2 solid hours? https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/calendar?field_category_tid%5B0%5D=5
To be sure,its about the future of the Osage. Out of the 4006 shareholders how many are Wards of the US Government ? That is just one common responsibility has. Along with a small mound of other responsibilities
Hopefully, an apology to the Shareholders, producers and the community at-large, then a statement that he is firing the Superintendent.
Then he could ask all the producers to provide him with a statement of expenses they incurred trying to implement the new CFR's for reimbursement purposes. He could then tell us that the DOI/BIA are going to drop the EA's, NEPA and ABB issues and let the producers get back to drilling and producing their wells. He could then jump on one of the federal horses from the Drummonds or Turner ranches and ride off into the sunset being careful not to crush a beetle bug.
Poor you. Just because the shareholders didn't give you the money you want them to for the legal fund doesn't mean they aren't read only and that they don't come in every single day by the hundreds.
If it wasn't for the producers the Shareholders wouldn't have gotten the temporary injunction. The MC's attorneys were lame and owe the producer's attorney thanks for carrying the ball. Obviously from your smart ass comment, I guess the Shareholders still deem the producers as adversaries. They are fleeing to more friendly territories thanks to the likes of you and your kind. Good luck with the bingo casinos and windmills. Maybe you can gather up and sell beetle bugs since your feds think they are so valuable. Sell photos of the feds horses to passer byes. Keep every dollar of your damn Indian check and smoke it. The producers are headed to more friendly pastures.
You are actually the first poster on this site that actually tried to shame the producers for asking for assistance. Most of the folks on this blog are appreciative of the producers' efforts in this dilemma even though they do not contribute to them financially. Four Shareholders out of thousands contributed a total of $100.00 which is about twenty minutes of legal fees. At least they didn't shame the producers for asking for help.
You're a sick pup. Please seek help. God bless you!
Like I wrote...POOR YOU! So full of bitterness, venom and contempt. Cool your jets and settle down. No one is ever interested in giving money to anyone who brow beats and belittles everyone in sight. If you can't grow wise, at least have the good grace to grow up. If you can't do that then I guess there's no hope for you at all because it sure does look like you're bent, twisted and weird at the core.
Thank goodness you do not represent most of the Shareholders' attitudes.
I have found during this past year of aggression by the Obama administration that the Shareholders in general have developed a much better relationship with the producers than in the past and they have been sympathetic to the plight of the producers even though they are not making financial contributions to the legal defense fund. You can take your hateful unappreciative attitude to another blog; you're the one that seems bitter. The rest of us are just trying to survive this vindictive aggression by DOI/BIA. In the meantime, you can keep drinking Crum's coolaide. We'll still keep fighting for you anyway.
The Chief is trying his best to help all Osages and all you do on here is bad mouth him. HE HAS SAID NUMEROUS TIMES HE DOES NOT WANT TO CONTROL THE M.E. JUST HELP THEM. WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? THE MINERALS COUNCIL NEEDS TO BE REPLACED. THERE IS NO OPENESS, COMMUNICATION ETC. JUST EXE. MEETING. THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT GAS AND OIL BUSINESS EXCEPT 2 OR 3. NO OFFICE EMPLOYEES THAT KNOW ANYTHING EITHER.
Is that so? I guess you didn't hear that the whole idea from the Nation's side of it is an all out effort to crush the Minerals Council at all cost. You've been sold a bill of goods that won't benefit your interest in the headright you own or the amounts you receive in your quarterly payments. Disinformation sells elsewhere else but here. I just don't buy it and neither does anyone who knows who's working for them. The Osage Nation lost $19,000,000. The Minerals Council settled the HPP lawsuit which put $156,000 per headright in the personal bank accounts of the shareholders. Now who is managing finances better? Who has stopped, together with the OPA, those oil and gas business killing new CFRs when the Nation's Congress and the Chief -- who was himself occupied with opining on fb in an all out inane effort to continue to try to crush the Minerals Council -- were neither one, anywhere in sight including inside the Courtroom when the injunction was put in place by the Judge. If you want loser results, I guess you side with losers. In a results oriented situation, the team that is getting the proven right result for the headright owners is without question, the Minerals Council, not the Osage Nation. Maybe you need to rethink the side you're taking and start smart tomorrow morning.
The Chief just doesn't seem to understand how awful and what an appalling failure the Osage Nation is to nearly all of us who don't work for the Osage government. I am frightened to death of letting any of them from the Osage Congress and the Executive Branch any closer than a continent and an ocean away from the Mineral Estate. Talk about a textbook example of tunnel vision, this is the genuine article. He appears to be so out of touch with the reality of the headright owners on the ground which is so warped because he used to understand or at least he talked a hell of good game once upon a time.
I don't think the person above understands that her money from the Nation is being tossed like a green salad.That she is entitled to a Per-Cap, that her rights have been taken away by a Government for the few , the Nepotism and cronyism. A renegade Congress who thinks they have the respect of their compadres but really whats being said behind their back is the unspoken truth, That sums it up in short of course.
Nowhere in the present Osage Constitution can I find where all members are entitled to a per-cap. Many things look and seem to be wrong,that just is the process of growing pains. Unspoken truths are many. Has anyone ever wondered why,non Osage shareholders have never demanded their right to exist as a People or a Tribe or a Nation? Sure many of the Osage over a few decades exersized and maintained Osage constitutions in many forms and through the federal court they failed.Yet the Osage still continue to maintain a constitutional document.Still today we have Osage trying to destroy.
It certainly was the premise and the promise... Still dead in the water despite how the money coming into the the Osage Nation continues to freely flow.
$40 to 45 million in Tribal funding a year. They move the number around to justify spending all the time. BUT not on us. $25,000,000 for them and $15 million for us and they just can't stand it. Those numbers are so upside down it isn't funny but you couldn't make them aware of that if you tried from now on.
11:39 your post brings up a bigger question, how much money do the casinos have laying around, which apparently is not accounted for to the Osage Nation or at least the Osage Congress, that if we need it they can just give us an extra $6,000,000.00? How much money do they have laying around? Where is that cash coming from? Is it not already allocated? Do they have it invested? Is it sitting in back room on a table? How is it so easy to access such an amount?
I thought very the same thing, how is it just laying around. How about getting those turkey vouchers out to the Constituents for the Holidays this year?
This Constitution was drafted without input from me, but until it is changed the Osage operate under it. I am for a separate Minerals Council to do leases and all the relationships with OST and BIA Minerals Department. That entity could have all the authority over minerals from the 1906 Act. Anyone who knows my history in the Osage knows this. I supported our efforts to create two separate governing bodies. The new government was the Osage National Council. We were doing well until Chief Tillman asked Browning Pipestem to file the court papers to dissolve the arrangement. So ended the two government experiment which led to this Osage Constitution. Do you not remember all of this?
What I remember is that the National Council wasn't doing well at all. What I remember is that there was a movement on the part of Eddy Red Eagle and Raymond Theis who were National Council members to try and take over the Minerals Council and Tillman had had enough of the end runs that he had to deal with and got into Court to not only expose the illegal nature of National Council under Federal law but to drop kick it into the trash can which is exactly what we should do with this new greed driven stupid self-serving new government put in place by non-headright owners, 60% of whom still see little if any help or benefit from what you government people have set up under it. Does any of this sound familiar with what you "support" today? I heard you've got your casino people trying to give the Congress another $6 million. Why don't you give that to the non-headright owners in a per cap instead of spending it on yourselves and this government for the government people you employ and lavish our money on every chance you get? Who runs the Casinos as CEO now Chief and how are you exactly related to him? I voted in one of those National Council elections in the 1990's. I saw a report that to get rid of that National Council monstrosity, it cost the Mineral Council run by Tillman about a million bucks. You we're on board somewhere in there as Assistant Chief and then resigned for some reason. Maybe you can bring us up to speed on what happened there. The new Osage Constitution SPECIFICALLY gives the Minerals Council and Agency created by it the management, administration and development of the Osage Mineral Estate within Osage County as perfectly detailed in plain english in Article XV, Section 4 and that's a hell of lot more than just the OST and the BIA. When are you government people outside the sphere of the Minerals Agency going to accept and live with the parameters set by the Osage Nation Constitution and quit working the edges on this thing? You people are out of control and the damage you're doing continues to sky rocket with every attempt on the Mineral Estate you make. You want to go into the oil and gas business and lose your shirt in the process? Do it with your government casino money and do it and outside of Osage County. There's a great big world out there for you to continue to fail from a business standpoint on a galactic scale. You people want to put your toe in this water and come to understand the term "scorched earth" in real not Indian time in the real world, you're welcome to it and to do it outside of Osage County but leave the Osage Minerals Estate for the umpteen millionth time ALONE!
That's telling the man. Good. To that let me add this; get gone away from the OME with your ridiculous troupe of Tribal Troubadours and stay gone from now on. Man you and yours are really something, trying to finish us off and end the hatchet job started by that $^%#*&^D Jim Gray.
Once more, they've got that Eddie Red Eagle to be front man in there to do the dirty work with this Osage Energy Services LLC. It didn't work back then and cost the headright owners a boatload of money in the '90s and now here they are making a run at it again. CSCR: Cyclical Stupidity Continually Recycled.
The way I am seeing it and Thank you Poster@9:46am. As long as the rights of the Shareholder's are not abrogated and under the Supreme 1906 Act The Osage Nation can not exist without THE 8 Council MEMBERS a Chief and AP Chief. Now the 1906 Act is still in full force why is the COUNCIL allowing a DE Facto GOVERNMENT to EXIST? We are a Governing body .2004 ACT is Null and VOID? Oh by the way a Per-Cap will have to go to all Osages, not just non-headright owners.
ndnlawyer you brought it up... To add to what 9:46 said, some of us where here during the National Council days, the National Council was not doing "well." Quiet the contrary in fact. As I remember when the National Council was established the BIA gave you all, what was it, about $2,000,000.00 to get your feet on the ground. That money was to last you two years or something like that. The National Council spent every dime of that in a year or less (half of what it was supposed to last anyway) on furniture, NEPOTISM, and travel all over the country. Then the National Council went back to the BIA and asked for more money and they were promptly shown the door. Once that happened they you (they) started eyeing the Mineral Estate floating every idea from taxing headrights to a complete take over. That was the impetus for Chief Tillman's filing. It wasn't the "greed" of the shareholders which I think your post seems to be implying. The failure of the National Council ...that's all on the National Council.
I have to ask. Don't you find it funny how history has a way of repeating itself, buying furniture, NEPOTISM, traveling to all corners of the US, unsustainable spending?
CSCR: Cyclical Stupidity Continually Recycled. Hahahahahaha! Funny how it's always the same people on the team over and over again and they think we would ever forget.
Thank you once again Poster @12:24 PM! NOW THE TRUTH IS SHOWING its ugly face..or face the ugly truth..No reason to wallow in our sorrow, do not fear big and small we will stand tall in our endeavor. Like I said we are a Case Study. So predictable. As the facts show they speak louder than words history is repeating itself. And we are here to put an end to this insanity should we go down under remains to be seen. Time for the fingers to stop pointing and time to get off our duff and have that real discussion to restore the GOVERNMENT if they cannot hold them selves accountable. Enough with the excuses. Who wrote the Osage Nations Constitution in 2004? Did the BIA help? And where did the 2 million come from for the ONC? How many people sat on the ONC? And are there records of how that money was spent?
This was a job by the OGRC (Osage Government Reform Commission) who Jim Gray put in place along with the other members of the 31st Tribal Council plus Harvard had a Constitutional language database that was utilized as well. It looked like Romper Room with all the ideas it floated initially but it was eventually structured to build a governing document like a steel bear trap from which none of us can escape. It was bad news then and it's bad news today. We should never have changed governments now that all is said and done. It's way over their heads and too unwieldy to manage. It's turned into a thinly veiled method of shoveling out gaming revenue to those who work for the Osage government and as much of it as they can get away with year in and year out. Basically, it's legal grand theft for those who live and work in Osage County and a way to hand out patronage jobs to keep getting elected to office over and over again. When the members of the Congress leave or aren't reelected, they still find ways of getting paid as Executive Staff. on Boards, Commissions or study groups. Millions of our money and all of those employed get merit bonuses every year whether they deserve them or not. Years ago on Kent's OSA Blog, one brave soul used to call them maggots on the dying carcass of the dream of our new government. It's dead now with all the nepotism, cronyism, money changing hands for one reason or another here and there, right an left. One of the worst things about it is more they get paid the more arrogant and vindictive they become. It's a greed driven rampant cancer totally out of control on the body of our 9 year old Osage government and I can't think of anything bad enough as to how much these government people in leadership positions need to be punished for what they've done in the past nine years to ruin, use up and destroy everything we were promised it would be from the beginning.
What is so galling about Harvard is how much influence they have on NA Tribal communities with that Harvard Project and how very few NAs they actually educate today. 1.4% out of 100% is laughable and a disgrace since they were originally chartered to educate NAs from the beginning of its existence. "...in the Harvard College Charter of 1650 as the “necessary provision for the education of the English and Indian youth” of the land." Perhaps someone needs to remind them about what they were chartered to do and who they were chartered to educate. http://features.thecrimson.com/2015/freshman-survey/makeup/
What's so ugly is that those who had been displaced by the 31st Tribal Council government warned everyone who would listen that the Osage National Council was just a trial run for what was to come if this same bunch got back in to run things. Some listened but not enough to make a crucial difference. Tillman had made some terrible mistakes as a leader and in the way he handled the Councils as Chief. This set the stage for Gray to be very narrowly elected and to move back in the direction of the failed Osage National Council government. No choice was given to stay with what they had in the OGRC's first and only referendum election. It was all about choices involving a Constitutional government but no way to vote against it. The whole thing was set up like a confidence game with total manipulation toward exactly what the ONOs wanted to have put back in place. It was a bad business then and nine years later, with the way they have chosen to handle themselves with our money together with the govt. for govt. pervasive entitlement attitude, it's a mess and getting messier every single day. Losing the reservation was just an example of the arrogance and stupidity pervasive in this government and the shareholders must do whatever they can to keep the current OME trust intact and in place with the Minerals Council separate and independent from it or the Nation will take actions which will ultimately flush it right down the crapper the first chance they get on the basis of what has gone before.
Harvard does not matter Osage Matters..I get what has transpired and how we transformed. I understand more today than yesterday and not let the past dictate who we are as a People less should we forget...Sovereign is the Osage People, not big Government.Thank you poster Sept 7th @ 11:40 am. Gray is still preaching how wonderful the Harvard experience has changed the Lives of so many Osages as if it was Scientology. How did Harvard Vote? It was the constituency that made this happen by their vote .Non the less reality is a matter of perception..You must agree Histories past is here today once again staring straight into the eagles eye should we soar in the eye of The Eagle should hope return to the watchful eye. Yes the Tilman administration and who had all their hands in the Cookie Jar, from the ONO to ONC, to the OGRI. Who was responsible and representing the mineral trust and estate, The 31st M.C. The BIA. The OSA? When you look at the scope you can get a better perspective, when you look into the scope you can identify..Its no accident where we are at..looking back to the Ratification of the Osage Constitution and the votes..724 no. 1454 yes votes and at the time we only had 4000 members. I believe the number was much hire than that in 2006. Numbers do not lie nor has the circumstances. Just bigger Government waste and a M.C who is a day late and costing the Shareholder's quite a lot. What has not changed and true the consistent non communication exists because the truth is in the provision of the 1906 act and the true Governing body and true law must be protected and that in deed is the truth. The 1906 act was designed to keep threat, fraud and Conflict of interest, and is law. Not with the intent to create another Government which we already had, was to allow for more membership for so federal programs could be granted to those who were Osage but did not have title for ferderal status..the Provision in the 1906 Act "In Perpetuity " . The Ratification of the Constitution in 2006 is indirect conflict of the ruling law? And didn't the BIA help construct the new Constitution? Ah, yes this was in conflict of the 1906 Act. Am I wrong?
We are the Osage Tribe we can still determine our fate how our Government should be by design for the Oaage People not someone elses pet project. Or no longer the few. Read the 2004Act, the Congress hereby reaffirms the inherent sovereign right of the Osage Tribe to determine its own form of Government.
No. The BIA had nothing whatsoever to do with the new Osage Constitution. It was the OGRC and Harvard all the way. The twink on the new constitution vote was envelopes for absentee ballots that were transparent and you could see if the Osage voted yes or no without even opening the ballot! I heard Hepsi Barnett was seen walking around with a box full of those ballots that were supposedly never even counted. I'll bet they were the no votes on the constititution were largely the ones at the voting machines. In any event, only the membership was supposed to vote and at the time you had to have a headright in order to be a member of the Osage Tribe. That is until Hepsi and the OGRC began to reinterpret the law any which way but loose and added the non-headright owners as voting members even before the membership had been changed by a formal vote in the ballot box to do so. It was rigged process and and rig city all the way to the ratification of this coup d'etat put in by the old Osage National Council to take over again and move forward on the path they were on before Tillman derailed them. You should hear the spending conversation they had today at the opening of the Tzi-Zho Session: http://mixlr.com/osage-nation/4c_tzs_day-1_9-8-15_pt1 More and more spending and still the departments offices and the other Executive Branch can't be satisfied with $40 million from gaming in spending and $43 million in total. We don't get line item budgets anymore to find out where it goes because if we did, we would probably be clamoring to have them jailed for the rest of their lives. Still this isn't enough to satisfy their bottomless pit of greed and they are starting to go after our minerals estate.
My breath taken away at the very site our way may be taken away. No one speaks the way.only sees what can be taken away. This coming from some where else. Loudly I sore not to far because I am yours. Do nit understand where this come from only know what is yours.
I would also like for Mr. Black to recite what the BIA's responsibilities are regarding the Osage Mineral Estate and ask if he thinks the BIA has met and/or satisfied those responsibilities.
I remember several weeks ago when the Obama administration came to town to tell the operators how they were required to comply with the new regulations imposed upon them that the meetings were not allowed to be filmed or audio recorded. This is total BS.
If Mike Black insists on similar restrictions we should escort him out of the building and off of the reservation. We should all immediately vacate the premises and contact every media outlet we can to expose the feds should this happen again.
I hope the OMC members and Shareholders attend tomorrow's presentation by Mike Black. I can't imagine what he will have to say about the condition of the mineral estate since he will not be discussing the subject matter of the lawsuits. I hope someone will be filming the presentation and also hope the press will be attending. I think that the OMC should record the presentation and post it live on the website for all Shareholders to be able to hear. Does anyone know if this will be recorded and streaming live on the website? Due to the seriousness nature of this Obama administration visit, I think it should be broadcast live.
The questions I think we should ask of Mr. Black are as follows:
Why did Chief Standing Bear invite you to address us and why did you accept his invitation?
What changes, if any, do you have planned for the Osage Agency office? First and foremost, do you have plans to replace the Superintendent. If not, why? If so, do you plan to replace her with someone who knows anything about oil and gas production? Do you plan to make other personnel changes, upgrade of mapping, reporting, record keeping, well records, software, interactive computer networking with producers and purchasers, etc.
Why are our producers required to submit various reporting forms on white paper, blue paper and green paper? Why not input data in fill-in pdf forms to merged into a simple database?
Why can't the public access current production data and lease status from the BIA Osage Agency? The couple of employees at the Osage Agency cannot answer the question whether or not a lease is available to lease or not with any certainty.
I would also like to know if Mr. Black knows who Galen Crum is and has he ever spoken with him. If so, I would ask what was the subject matter of the conversation.
I'll have more questions by tomorrow's presentation. Please bring your questions and speak up tomorrow.
Mr. Black knows Galen very well. Given the lawsuits, I tend to think the O.M.C should avoid the meeting. That's just basic legal advice. It applies why your in a car wreck I see no reason it wouldn't apply here. The Chief set this up for a reason and I guarantee that reason is nothing beneficial to the M.E.
We have some very important issues that need to be addressed and Mr .Black in my book his number is 0 he is not our hero. Mr Black has nothing to say from my stand point everyone must wear their blanket and show solidarity with out backs turned to them and have the Press there as well...Osage for fiscal responsibility. It is my hope Mr Revard and other producers will attend and stand tall, we the Osage Tribe the Shareholders will be with you standing united and give there honest opinion and inform the shareholder's on this site their opinion. I live far away but I stand with each and every one of you my Osage Brother and Sisters..we can do this. Mr Black if he cannot answer our Questions what a waste of time. Good luck to you all.
This isn't a car accident. It's a train wreck that was predicted if the new government was voted in. The MC handles minerals business with the BIA and to stay away would be negligence. The Nation deals with the BIA in more ways than Minerals so this meeting may be on the compacts that are taking place for healthcare and others associated with the BIA.
I do not believe Mike Black when he said he could not speak to how many permits or for that matter Robin Philips. Its like taking the 5th when in reality the BIA will be on the hook for that 100 million in lost revenue as long as this Agency pussy foots around that dollar figure sure to go up even higher..This Agency has created more redundancies. Who was the person who spoke out of line to the producer and told him he needs to be in the Restaurant business. And we can be sure there will be no compacting the Estate. It has been if I havd the CBO came out with the report of 39 areas recommended for improvement, why has it taken 3 years since the report to implement all recommendations? And as far as workovers and permitting process as A shareholder I would think the Producer should go out and do what they hzve to do and let it be up to the Council having the final word as to the fines and not fine them. Hell is going to freeze over if we don't jump start the process I ourselves.
Has anyone looked at the proposals the Senator Inhoff presented the M.C. if we do not take control for a viable M.E and we cannot orchestrate for a better future of our M.C and demonstrate as well at a performance level we are in for a wake up call. I have been saying all along move the M.C to the back and lets build our engineering office for quite sometime. We do not need another M.C. Now I see why we are in the predicament we are in. Real world thinking needs to come in play..just sayin. It is not as if the M.C has not been warned.
Thank you for responding poster 12:16 pm. Old codger with old Ideas. It is not as if this was not seen. I call it the JRE syndrome. They just did not do their Homework. They did not rise the the level of competence or diligence. Sure there is a lot of stuff as he coined that we did not like about in the CFR's if this is the case why should the SHAREHOLDER be required to except anyfhing less Mr. Abbott and by whos standard? As it is thus far out of 100 million dollars. Thats not chump change we are talkjng about and we are losing end of the Stick .
You have an Osage Constitution in place that created and mandates the Minerals Council. Before you come up with such preposterous suggestions, why don't you spend some time away from this blog and educate yourself about what is possible under the new Osage government and what isn't? Let me help you get started --->>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3kl5z1795sms9ul/Constitution.pdf
Who was the legal type with the attitude and the pony tail from the BIA side? Typical of the BIA for generations back to the very beginning of the government to government relationship. Our side tried to score some good points on the windfarm issue especially Holly Wells who was deflected by this guy. No reason he couldn't have answered. This was an official meeting and the head guy show up without a tie? This is just typical of the attitude we get from the BIA. Kugee showed respect by taking off his straw hat which can't be said for Mr. Big Shot himself who took over the microphone in the same manner he tries to take over and try to control everything minerals.
The meeting with Mike Black was a waste of time and an embarrassment. Sonny Abbott showed how ignorant he really was on the content of the now-stayed CFR's. And what was the charade about Mike Black pledging at the end to uphold the obligations of the BIA as trustee? How ridiculous considering the BIA is constantly violating its fiduciary responsibilities on a daily basis.
Did you catch before the meeting started how Mr. Big was so buddy buddy with the BIA and how friendly he was with that Phillips woman and Mike Black? Looked like old home week to me at our economic expense.
Granted I wasn't able to listen to the entire thing but what I did hear I am still not sure what the point of all that was. We stated our thoughts and concerns and the BIA seemingly ignored them and didn't respond to much of anything.
Did anything of substance happen in the first half, that I missed? I guess if nothing else we saw an unwashed version of what we are dealing with in Abbott, Crum and Yates.
No one pointed out that the BIA had to be tapped on the shoulder by the Chief when ENEL started digging up our minerals and using them commercially on the wind mill units for the bases. The one who brought this taking to light was Dr. Connor and then the BIA finally got out there and in gear.
At least Mike Black was able to see how ugly the mood is in the Osage. Even the trooper was standing by in case it came to blows after fat head Abbott shot off his mouth and nearly got it shut for him. He's a stupid hateful little bugger isn't he? I hope he watches the video of himself to find out how totally repugnant he really is.
We were also able to see what Cynthia has had to have the strength to bear up under. Thank you, Cynthia. We own you a King's ransom for standing in the breach and protecting us from foolish ones like Abbott, Yates and Crum.
Right. So I missed out what was or not said about the WIND Farms? Yes as we all predicted nothing was said that we didn't already have the answers to. Side stepping the issues. And I was quite concerned when Mike Black was confronted on many issues that he didn't have answers for..15% in revenue equals a hudred million and all he could do was just stair like a deer in headlights. He did not do his homework. And his look when expressed that the American Indian is at a disadvantage priceless.
You cannot operate without a contingency. As of right now it is business as usual but leaves the Question about future development out of the equation and the Permitting process needs to be reduced to 20 days and the ABB fush and wlid life have no right ti discriminate. It does not take six months to get an answer.
Sonny Abbot,by his own admission, in public to several people, NEVER READ THE NEW CFRs. Unfortunately, by the time they were elected most of our council persons also had not read them. This was a question asked during the the election process at one of the rallies. Unconscionable, considering they should have read CFRs before they decided to run for office.
Senator's proposal #1-- No! If the Osage Nation government Chief hands off a personal service contract for something as simple as an Osage Nation HR policies and procedures to Jim Gray's wife for $65-75K and she then turns around to see if she can get someone from the ON Congress, who proffers such educational qualifications in HR every chance she gets, to help her get the job done properly, how the heck are the Osages going to come up with self-governance oil and gas regulations? This is like asking an infant to drive a big rig and expect it to happen. It would be in violation of the fiduciary obligation of the DOI/BIA toward the Headright owners to even let the Osage Nation government anywhere near the management and running of the OME This is sheer stupidity going in right from the top. Senator's proposal #2 -- NO! Just as bad. A second Council? We can't even get along without constant interference with the FIRST OMC from the Chiefs from the beginning of this Osage Nation government. This is asking for double the trouble and more litigation down the road. Is the Chief planning a way to get the Osage Energy Services LLC., in there as a second council lead by Eddie Red Eagle and his merry band of wo/men? What outside experts? The ubitquitous business expert, "The Bug Man" Mark Simms? Once more, sheer stupidity going in. Senator's proposal #3 -- NOOOO! Not even close. In case they have forgotten, there is an injunction against these new CFRs in Federal Court because they are oil and gas business destructive in Osage County in direct violation of the fiduciary obligation of the DOI/BIA to the Osage Nation and the Headright owners as the beneficiaries of the OME Trust. Is this a joke or a form of Federal torture because we won the HPP lawsuit? This just cannot be coming from the Senator's in the U.S. government. I can't bring myself to believe it because it's so inadequate and mindless of the reality on the ground here in Osage County. The only option on the ground is the BIA goes back to the table on the CFRs and loses the BLM regs in total. Rolls back the new EIS and all the EAs to the current valid EIS from the 1970's until the Donalson lawsuit is settled. The DOI Secretary of the Interior, the Trustee of our OME Trust tells Fish and Wildlife to "bug off" in Osage County as before. The BIA starts issuing fines to ENEL Green for a $1,000 fine a day per each and every wind machine built until they come to heel and the DOI drops this wholly transparent Obama administration's protection of the wind farm built in Osage County and doubles the fine per day per any new wind mill built in violation of Federal law. And the DOI/BIA starts behaving in a way that promotes protection as opposed to the overregulation of the oil and gas business in a mature oil field for the benefit of the Headright owners to whom they owe a fiduciary obligation.
@1:26 The Trooper had to tell me to calm down after Sonny Abbott spoke and stated like a fool that the Operators are not hurt yet because the CFRs are not in affect. I for one lost a job due to the BIA shutting down the Osage and when this so called MAN Abbott told my brother a Shareholder/Operators to get out of the oil & gas industry and open up a restaurant he showed his distain for the Oil industry if you ask me. We are third generation oilmen and we will continue to produce oil and gas, it may not be in the Osage anymore but we are oilmen. In the meantime the "Revard's" are fighting mad and will continue to speak out against the Fed's and the OMC when they fall short of their duties.
I also found it interesting that it sure appeared that Mr. Crum and Superintendent Phillips rehearsed their exchange. This was totally staged and she knew what questions Crum was going to ask. He did his best to try to show that she is competent and knows what she's talking about. How is it the Shareholders are not demanding that Yates and Crum resign their position? Mind blowing how the Osages put up with this type of behavior.
Mr. Revard. You opinion matters because we the Shareholder's are directly impacted so indirectly you our protecting our interest as wel. He drills we make money he doesn't we all lose out. In the future it is a goal of mine as you know, to foster better Communications with our Producers and that we no longer have to speak in terms of speak out. to, as we need to come to a consensus, a common ground of communication. This needs to happen.
"Crum is a finger puppet for the Superintendent and the BIA. I surprised he didn't have a hat and cane for a tap dance." Never forget he is also a puppet for the Chief. The BIA's relationship to Crum and Crum's relationship to the Chief should be quite telling.
He's so close to the BIA/ Chief how can he be trusted with attorney-client information about the OMC/ OPA CFR case. It would seem to me he and yates represent a potentially huge breach of our case.
The BIA holds the trust and ours is unique in that any decision or decisions less puts the ESTATE at a disadvantage. They cannot rule not in the favor of the Estate or they would be indirect conflict to the 1906 Act. All outcome must be in favor of the ESTATE whether the Agency feels otherwise. Harm has come to the Osage again..What would be more instrumental if the Senator's have taken note the problem is at a federal level and not the Osage. The Shareholder's will handle their business. If we need to construct a working Council. Meaning replacing our M.C thats down the road. But first is first. Where is the representation from the upper echelon.? Crum will be a Crumb when the Federal Courts rule in favor of the Shareholder's, that the New CFR's gave to much power to the BIA Superintendent. She cannot rule any different than not in favor for the Estate but non the less she did and she has to answer that 100 million dollar question in court. I 4hink the Court should make the Federal Government pay 400 million in damages. 98,000 dollars I am out of. Then 1 billion for the in restitution. Then maybe this Agency might get its act together. This is what the Senators should be looking at.
Can someone advise how to watch the video of today's BIA presentation. When I attempt to view the video it asked me to sign-in or log-in. I have not found a way to do this. Thanks
Apparently, the Osage Shareholders' and Osage Producers' urgency is not the BIA's emergency.
Osage producer, Paul Revard, asked what was so important that on one particular day the BIA's Superintendent deemed it necessary to shut down the permitting of all new wells and maintenance on all the existing wells. Superintendent Phillips in July, 2014 wrote the letter addressed to the producers advising that as of August, 2014 no permits will be approved for new drills and maintenance of existing wells. Mr. Revard asked what was it that made it so important to implement these restrictions on this one particular date. Director Black did not answer the question.
Director Black could not answer many of the questions posed by the Shareholders and producers and stated that they (BIA) were working on the matters being addressed. Meanwhile, the producers drowning and going under fast and the Shareholders are directly affected. The BIA is not taking into consideration the damage they have and continue to cause to the producers and Shareholders due to their over-bearing regulations.
We Shareholders and producers just received lip-service toady and were basically told to wait and be patient. We are going down fast and cannot wait on this bureaucracy to play out.
The Osage producers are, and will continue, to move to more favorable pastures (other areas outside of Osage County) but the Osage Shareholders are dependent on the production within their reservation.
It is time for a revolt! Paul Revard posed the question: what would the Superintendent do in the way of fines if the producers proceeded to maintain their wells for production without the approval of their permits. He asked if the Superintendent was required to impose a fine for such violation. The answer was no. It was up to the Superintendent to fine or not to fine. Therefor, the Superintendent could allow the producers to carry-on in a professional manner even without a permit and she did not necessarily have to fine the producers for doing so. Director Black advised against such activities. Screw him and the horse he road in on.
What a waste of time attending today's presentation. I regret having attended and, in retrospect, we should have had him address and empty room.
The producers are taking their capital elsewhere and the Shareholders need to prepare for the total demise of their mineral estate. So sad!
100 MILLION DOLLARS THUS FAR IN MISSED REVENUE. WELL I want Robin Phillips on the stand and have to explain how her actions or lack of however take the stand and try to explain her decision that is the 100 million question. This is not pennies we are talking about that the Bureau needs to answer to. They dropped the ball again. The meaning of insanity is doing the same thing over again. Get rid of Robin Philips. This needs to be looked into seriously...she is not a friend to the Estate. She is counter productive to our goals. This meeting was nothing but a show and tell. I am out 88,000. Dollars you bet I am mad as heck...
Mike Black admitted in the meeting yesterday that he didn't have a problem with the 1979 EA. Then why shut the County down and require onerous permitting requirements to comply with new environmental rules when the existing ones are acceptable? Shows the contempt the BIA has for the Mineral Estate.
I'm actually glad the man came into town so he can get the mood on the ground and it's ugly. It really looks from the Holly and AP Chief exchange that the BIA is in lock step with the green agenda of the Obama Administration. Black denied that they could have used Federal Marshals to stop the first wind farm that went up in the field but I'm of the belief that they still have the ability to issue fines on a daily basis shoud any business move forward without the proper Federal permitting. If ENEL had thought that they would be facing a substantial fine on a daily basis on every single wind machine they constructed and set up, I believe it would be a far different story than it is today. They certainly would issue fines if this were Federal land that they have a stewartship responsibility for but not a fiduciary obligation owed to us in a trust relationship where the loyalty, duties and responsibilities owed are far higher. 160 + acres is a lot of land to lose where production associated with the mineral rights are concerned.
ENEL can go pound sand somewhere else. So why was there nothing done when the first Turbine was constructed? Yes we are different we are not Federal Public Land. The facts as they are, this is illegal taking. Take you 80,000 dollar wind turbines ENEL and put them where the sun do not shine. I believe they speed up their contruction for more than one reason. Tax credits were about to end and the fact we took them to Court..and its not just that on principal these are boondoggles. All based on an inconvenient flawed opinion. The facts as they are your not lowering the price of energy the complete opposite will happen and is. And fossil fuel will never go away. Since the M.C is qausai in charge can they not instruct the Court to level fines against them and to boot add liens against ENEL? At this point we should bypass the BIA let them handle the accounting and the regulations can be handled by a operating M.C.
Thank you Mr.Revard. I wish the Tulsa World would have not posted Mr. Abbotts comments, how disturbing his lack of knowledge was so evident, this is where his ego came in and I would have wished the Tulsa World would have ended the column with an open ended statement "why is the permitting process delayed"? Is the Osage being someones Target. It does not take 3 years to get an answer from the FISH and Wild life in regards to the ABB and it is also known they exist in other areas of the country as well, hardly endangered. In all of this at the end of the day who is responsible, the BIA.I feel like we are being targeted for example "IRS, Lois Lerner".
Sonny Abbott is receiving favorable print after his despicable display? Or am I misunderstanding the intent of the author? This is a man who thinks that he will make more money for the Shareholders by killing 60% of the oil business in Osage County as a result of voluminous overweaning regulations that will put that percentage of them out of business? Does this guy need to be placed in a commitment center for those who can no longer function mentally having exhibited yesterday that he no longer has the ability to make logical rational decisions? I don't know at this point if it's a better idea to revile the guy or call the white coats to have him placed in a facility for his own protection and ours.
Just my opinion the column in the Tulsa World could have been better written. Straight Jacket lol, I called it another JRE syndrome. What I want to know is any change to any code cannot have a direct impact that would cripple the Estate and how is passing a set of rules which is plagued with bad policies inside out work for the best outcome for the Estate? Anything less would put us at a disadvantage. And Abbott wants that? This clearly is going to bite the Federal Government.
Has anyone read the latest in the Osage News how Mike Black and Robin Phillips flet about yesterdays meeting? Great. Why was not any othe the Producers, M.C or Shareholders interviewed? And then the Chief finds out after the fact Mike Black met with the Cattle Ass. This is getting way out of control by the BIA.
The Osage Nation is under attack by the US Federal Government and also by the Osage County surface owners. We need to defend ourselves and fight back against this aggression. The members of our tribe need to unite for the best chance of survival. We can and must prevail, God willing.
The world is managed by less than 500 people in many ways. Can we not say the Osage is no different? The world is a mad mad world and we the Osage have our own forms of madness. Who has the best chances of overcoming their madness,the world or the Osage. My faith is in the Osage.How,when and why should be our divine right alone.But we the Osage can not do this alone. The modern world has a lot to offer.
Comments and reactions from today's Special Minerals Council meeting are located at http://osageblog.blogspot.com/2015/08/osage-shareholder-matters-august-2015-ii.html
ReplyDeleteStanding Bear on status of Mineral Estate: ‘Pandora’s box has been opened’ AND WHO THE HOLY HELL WAS IT WHO OPENED IT CHIEF?
ReplyDeletehttp://osagenews.org/en/article/2015/08/31/standing-bear-status-mineral-estate-pandoras-box-has-been-opened/
If a compact with the OCC or a TERA will end the Federally held OME income trust, what "trust" is Talee talking about in the article? A new one altogether and if so WHO WILL BENEFIT AND BECOME THE BENEFICIARIES OF IT? Talee: “I think it’s time to act and we’re going to have to do something, make some strong decisions, to make sure this trust is held for the future of the Osage.”"
DeleteIf the OCC is coming as some are hoping, you might want to sign up for this upcoming workshop.
Delete“OCC WORKSHOP FOR NON-RESIDENT OKLAHOMA ROYALTY OWNERS”
“Managing Your Minerals for Fun and Profit”
“How to Check Title in Your Pajamas Without Leaving Your House. "
http://www.occeweb.com/og/PubAsst/FLWorkshopNotice.pdf
Why the hell did it take a damn week for the Chief to inform us of this meeting that he had with the Senator's staffers? He should have put a press release in writing long before this. The MC meeting last week was just a sideshow. The real situation was presented to the Chief at the formal meeting in Bartlesville and he keeps it quiet until now? What would have happened if he had never had the MC meeting today? WHEN WAS HE GOING TO INFORM THE HEADRIGHT ANNUITANTS? Next week? Next month? When the deal was done? Kick this sneaking sidewinding screwball out of office who does not have our best interest at heart or in mind. This man is exactly as was written on the last shareholder page here, a danger to all of us headright owners much more than the new CFRs and the Donalson situation combined.
DeleteAugust 31, 2015 at 5:40 PM is this a joke? Are you a joker here or what? Who are the some who are hoping? YOU? Slap us in the face with this crap from the OCC? We'll see about that...
DeleteThe Chief and Maria Whitehorn were in Washington D.C., a while back. Is this what the two of them were cooking up behind our backs as the two top officials of the Osage Nation government?
DeleteWanted to put this up again --
DeleteI for one am getting to the point I can't believe anything I read anymore. "[Corporation Commission jurisdiction] would mean the end of the trust relationship,” Standing Bear said. “And that would be resisted by the Osage Nation and every tribe in the country. We believe it would lead to great conflict, and we’ve had enough conflict.” ref; http://barnsdalltimes.com/http:/barnsdalltimes.com/news/chief-keep-occ-paws-off-trust . Words matter, WTH is it from Pawhuska?
We were warned over and over again about what this avarice would lead to and here it is with all these government Osages having done what it took to take our minerals income away from us and lose the Trust. Galen Crum and Andrew Yates and Sonny Abbot, do you really think you could destroy our mineral estate and get away with it?
Deleteto the poster @ August 31, 2015 at 5:50 PM Try to realize what stupid options we are being offered! It is not a joke. What it is sad are the alternatives are as foolish as these. The BIA who it is said is sitting on 400 drill permits, a Chief intended on having it both ways & a OMC whose resolutions mean nothing. No, I am not a 'Joker' just a Shareholder whose options are running out. We must realize this & create a direction collectively that does not rely on such limp options as the BIA, OMC or ON... Reality must be hard for you to swallow!
DeleteYou must not understand your reality. In the situation we are facing right now, you have been informed earlier today that you are no longer a shareholder because the OME Trust is BUSTED from which you derive your income in your quarterly checks. You may have a headright but whatever payments will be going out, won't be going out to you or any other headright owner with a share in whole or in part. DO YOU GET WHAT IS GOING ON HERE AT ALL?
Delete5:54 this is exactly what they were cooking up. The Chief saw he had no chance in court to take the mineral estate so he ran crying to Washington. The Nation has screwed us and has put the entire mineral estate in jeopardy and the G*D D#mn facebook crowd is still trying to blame stephanie and cynthia. Those greedy, whatever you want to call them on the hill, have done nothing, NOT ONE DAMN THING, with this government from day one other than spend money like a bunch of drunks and think of ways to get their selfish talons on the mineral estate. But I never, honest to god, never thought they would be so stupid as to risk losing the whole thing. That chief is no better and just as money hungry as the guardians who swindled, stole and killed our grandparents. Only he's worse because he's Osage. And that Whitehorn set there and watched it happen, maybe even helped.
DeleteSo its not is if the signs weren't there. We can complain but in my opinion the Chief has abused his Authority. This is what happens when one person has absolute power. He doesn't. We do. The moral majority. It is time we the Shareholder's unite and come to a concensus. We have a renegade Chief and a M.C divided. This you can blame your 30th and 31st council. Who sat on those Councils? They sold us out. Maybe not understanding the full extent of the consequences. Remember we are the moral majority not the Government of lies and the few. I move for a Osage Constitutional Convention. Remove our Chief who has defected for ones agenda that has been considered a threat to the M.E., in corporate espionage what happens when a body of people are divided , theres collateral damage. Everyone on the M.C should be removed. These actions are necessary and most unfortunate but this is what happens when the Shareholder's are lied to. As I have said before actions speak louder than words or lack of. I for one want an audit of the Estate and I want to go back to 75 dollars a meeting. I want to know through the opem records act how and when our money is being spent on don't you? Don't you want to have an structured office eith a foundation built with skilled innovative technicians in the field and office. I want to build relationships with the producers and land owners. Condition is everything and we don't even have that. Wht0y put off what we can no longer ignore, nor should the Shareholder's keep their blinders on, nor can we stand by the sidelines anylonger.
DeleteTo listen to yesterday's meeting from the Osage Nation's MC section of the web site, see http://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/who-we-are/minerals-council/meeting-information
DeleteThank you Osageblogger.
DeleteWhat good with this do now? "Amid lawsuits, BIA director to visit Osage Nation in September" --->>>
ReplyDeletehttp://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/amid-lawsuits-bia-director-to-visit-osage-nation-in-september/article_f27809ae-6b22-59c2-9ca7-c068593dac9f.html
Ask the chief he's the one who loves the Washington crowd, he's the one who's been sniffing around Mr. Black. This is his show.
DeleteGuys, I can't get on this blog very often. Have the shareholders lost the ME to the Osage Nation? There will be no more payments after this September?
ReplyDeleteI'm really not sure. It looks like they've lost it to the Oklahoma Corporation Commission. We have no idea what they'll come up with next. If the Trust is busted as some on here think is really happening, we might be lucky to see the December payment. In the meeting they mentioned that one of the staffers said that it could happen fast so who knows what's up ahead.
DeleteYes there's going to be payments. As long as the oil is pumped. Stop these scare rumors. Let's see what comes out of this meeting and go from there. Our MC still have some power. We need to stop this damn chief. What the hell did Catherine Redcorn say to him with her invite?
DeleteWe didn't lose anything. Smoke and mirrors. Any and all of this will have to be put to a vote with the Shareholders.
DeleteI don't believe any of this will have to be put to a vote to the shareholders. No more than when Jim Gray formed the Nation that is absorbing us. The shareholders weren't consulted about that before Jimmy signed up anyone he thought was Osage and had them vote and determine our future. There was certainly no shareholder consultation before that.
DeleteBut if you listened to the podcast on the special meeting yesterday, the Chief made the most important point - namely that if the BIA is no longer involved, then the actions within the County are no longer Federal actions. That means no more NEPA and Gentner Drummond can be shooting blanks. He also said that TARA is not talking about removing the BIA from all activities. Presumably the BIA could still handle accounting and another vehicle could handle oil and gas permitting etc.- and no I'm not suggesting the OCC.
DeleteYou still must have a regulatory body in there WITH REGULATIONS to control the Osage Mineral Estate. You can't fly blind and work without a regulations in place 24/7. Now, as I understand it, there will have to be a transition from the BIA because the TERA concept hasn't been finished from a legislative standpoint and if it's not finished it still has to go through two houses of the U.S. Congress for a vote up or down and when in final form, it's sent to the President for his signature. This process could still take many years.
DeleteWhen the staffers came, they suggested a transition to the OCC for a short period of time. You weren't born yesterday and neither was I. This is substantially a slight of hand to get those oil and gas producers back to work as soon as possible and stop impoverishing the entire county. Once the OCC is in place, you have no guarantees that the BIA will even want to come back in and manage the Mineral Estate in any capacity and with what regulations? The Osage Nation has a hell of a time coming up with policies and procedures for the Nation's employees. Do you actually think they can be relied upon to come up with regulations the oil and gas producers will live with? Once the OCC is in that's it folks and there are serious problems with trying to use the gross production taxes if you want to keep the mineral rights reserved and held in the hands of the Osage Nation for any length of time. Any State jurisdiction will subject the Osage Nation to the Courts in the State of Oklahoma and that will will be potentially problematic going in. All the BIA has to do to keep out of it is to pass on coming back in in any other capacity from a fiduciary standpoint and won't be responsible for anything other than accounting. I think we've been played since the day the HPP case settled and it was just a matter of getting it structured properly from the Federal side to work out a way to step out of the picture where the Osages are concerned. If this weren't so, why did the BIA substantially ignore most of the NegReg comments submitted and make changes to the new CFRs before the final version was announced last June? We aren't going to have some sort of special status going forward and because we don't own the surface land rights like the Utes do, there is very little room to maneuver from a regulatory standpoint. The only reason the Federal court took us seriously is because the oil and gas producers were there with us and more than any other party, they were the ones that brought this injunction over the goal line. As one Osage I know said, "If it wasn't for the white people in the County who went to court too, that injunction would never have happened. If you go with State jurisdiction, at any point along the way, it will stay that way and who knows what is coming next.
These are the hard core facts as they lay...poster 11:48 AM got it right..The Domino Affect. History repeats. Just a different day and time. The family dynamics have not really changed. Just the people. The meaning of insanity is, doing the same thing over again. This time around we get it and we can hit restart anytime now, right?
DeleteI don't think so. Do we even get to keep our IIM accounts if we don't have land or will they be lost under the new system too?
DeleteTo the poster at 10:35 AM. The Chief is dead wrong about the jurisdiction of the Federal courts if the BIA is no longer involved. The National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) applies to every person and entity of the United States. There are some regulations specific to the BIA and BLM which would no longer apply except for drilling which occurs on trust lands, but it would have no effect on the Donelson case for which Drummond is counsel.
DeleteFederal law overides State and Local Law.
DeleteThe poster @ 4:22PM is in error. NEPA applies only to Federal lands or land controlled by the BIA, BLM etc. If the BIA is no longer in control, NEPA is not an issue. Otherwise every other County in Oklahoma would have a compliance issue. Getting the BIA out of the County, except maybe for accounting purposes, would be a good thing. The Chief is on to something. Besides, if the BIA is so great, why did Judge Frizzell give them a big-time bloody nose?
DeleteNEPA is triggered by a federal action not by surface ownership. I make my living writing environmental documents for Indian mineral projects. Private surface over Indian minerals is called split estate. Drilling and Indian mineral well is a federal action and requires analysis under NEPA. Just bcs the Osage Agency didnt prepare proper NEPA documents doesnt mean federal environmental laws didnt exist.
DeleteIf a well is drilled into Osage mineral estate it requires a NEPA analysis. The OCC doesnt prepare those documents bcs they permit fee minerals.
If you dont believe me call the Tulsa BLM office and ask about NEPA and Indian split estate. 918 621 4100
So this much we know. We do not want the OCC to come in. We know we have is a permitting problem at the BIA. At Administration level this office is not equipped to expidite in a timely manner is costing the M.E untold Millons and has proven to be grossly incompetent and has caused a tsunami of lawsuits. The redundancies and inefficiencies still exist after more than three years of the HPP settlement. Why hasn't itvat this point the M.C not assume these duties of which the Shareholder's are paying them to do what? And or why haven't we structured or developed a criteria to move in that direction for a better outcome?...however you look at this, the only difference I see is the problem is so simple..charge a permit fee mineral. The way I see it there is no way escaping NEPA requirements and EA. It exists within tbe guidelines of the OCC just communication between parties as it relates to the permitting process is structured in away that allows for the permits to go out in a timely manner. So tell me again why over three years has gone by since the HPP and we are no where prepared to make a better change for future of our M.E? Why do we not have a skilled working body working for us? My sentiment is only this, what is it going to take to wake up M.C all eyes are watching your next move.
DeleteWe are all going to have to wait for the Mike Black meeting to find out what is going on from the point of view of the Bureau. It's that simple. We're not really going to know what the plan is until then. I suspect from all that has gone before that it's out of Osage hands altogether.
Deletehttp://osagenews.org/en/article/2015/08/25/bia-director-discuss-issues-involving-mineral-estate-sept-9/
So no matter which way we turn on the NEPA deal, we're still dead in the water without that new EIS? WTH happened to that old EIS in effect as a coverable set of regulations from the 1970's with permitting going on until the new EIS is ready? It seems the Bureau is dragging it's feet for no reason if there are applicable regulations that are already in effect.
DeletePoster 12:39 why did we need to change the CFR's if the regulation existed in the first?
DeleteThe 1979 EIS is still in effect and does not expire. The BIA refuses to accept it now and they are obstructing the development of the ME. If the US government is so worried about the beetle bug they should come gather them up and start their own beetle bug farm at the White House grounds. We should charge them a fee of $5,000 per bug.
DeleteThey need to be sued again. In the meantime, the Osage Nation, through the OMC, should issue their own permits to the producers and tell Obama and his obstructionists to pack up and leave. The Osage Nation could have the oil and gas purchasers pay the royalty directly to the OMC for distribution to the headright owners. Our Tribe needs to stand up to these bureaucrats. When the Chief went to Washington, he should have advised the aggressors as to what we were planning to do whether they liked it or not. The DOI/BIA is not doing their job and have damaged the ME again. It's time we take over. The Shareholders should allocate the funds necessary to hire experienced oil and gas executives to run things until the MC can replace them with their own qualified managers.
The new CFR's were drafted and almost implemented as retribution for the $380,000,000. settlement. It was to punish the Tribe for the settlement with the intent of shutting down oil and gas activity in Osage County. Revenge.
DeleteTo the blogger @ 9:18AM, you missed the point. If the OMC, under TERA, governs its own affairs and the BIA is no longer involved, then it's no longer a Federal action. NEPA then does not apply. If you're an expert, reveal yourself and avail yourself to the OMC.
DeleteI meant retaliation not retribution.
DeletePoster 1:02Pm Buddy, if the Shareholder's have to make the move we a will be there..I am on the fence about Mike Black.. we still need to hold our ground and wear our Blankets and turn our backs on them as they have us. We do not want to hear excuses we want anwers. One question I want answered by him, why is he here and how did we get where we are at? And what is it going to take to shore up any and all redundancies and inefficiencies at the BIA? And it must be stressed no OCC period. We wznt an Audit if all accounts.
DeleteWe should also Mike Black why his Superintendent is still threatening to fine our producers for violations of the new CFR's when the new CFR's have not taken affect as of this date and even after the Superintendent wrote a letter to the producers stating that we do not yet need to implement the CFR's. One of our producers received the threat of a $500/day fine eight days after Judge Frizzell's ruling temporarily blocking the new regs.
DeleteI would also like to know if the BIA plans to reimburse the producers for the extra expenses the BIA caused them to incur in the producers' efforts to come into compliance, and for no reason. Some operators such as myself spent thousands of dollars that were not necessary and which made no significant difference such as the new valves. A thief could still drop a hose in the pumper's "thief hatch" on top of the tank to suck out all the oil their tank truck could hold and these new seals won't stop that. The BIA should buy the valves back from us and reimburse us the cost that we incurred to install them. Likewise with the electric lines. Mike Black should bring a checkbook on September 9th.
Someone should also as Mr. Black why he has not removed and replaced the Superintendent which we all deem adversarial and incompetent.
RIGHT! Run it ourselves? Just like we were promised that there would be a per capita payment to all Osages from gaming proceeds if we voted for this self-destructive and thieving Constitutional government? It won't take long before Shannon Edwards and her ilk will build legislatively, a bureaucratic minerals empire of two to three hundred employees of this so called Mineral Estate division that will include a compliance department with a platoon of compliance officers, a Board and Board members , a commission and who knows how many commissioners, office workers, field workers, an Engineering Office replete with who knows how many of them on salary, a legal department and who knows how many of them on salary a Seismic Office, a Land Office, Land Men a plenty and pretty soon whatever payment was distributed quarterly will be eaten up in less than a year and you'll be lucky to get a check for $10.00 a quarter if that. What do you take us for? You must be an idiot of some kind. If you live outside of Osage County and the Osages start running things with royalty and bonus payments given to the Osage Nation instead of the current Federal Trust account you won't even get a share as a shareholder anyway because then, they will be in a position to create a new list of minerals estate shareholders with blood quantum as a requirement to receive a share. You are either stupid because you take us all for stupid or you're that way to begin with. Regardless, GIVE US A BREAK!
DeleteWow! I'm not feeling the love here. I was thinking more like a staff of a few bookkeepers, a consulting petroleum engineer to review the permits and several IT personnel for data inputting and well permitting and a few field inspectors to spot check field operations.
DeleteThis is a multi-billion dollar asset and should be able to justify a reasonable professional management staff. The Shareholders are too spoiled by the free BIA management. How's that working out for you now? If things continue to deteriorate at this rate, there will not be a ME to manage soon. The oil producers are diverting their funds to more friendly areas and no new operators are coming in to take their place. If I could sell my production I would have already been gone. Every operator I know feels the same way. We can't sell our leases due to the cloud on our title by the Donnelson-Friend lawsuit and the BIA shut-down of all activity. We are not allowed to drill new wells and not allowed to work on our existing wells when they need formation treatment.
Yes, I say run it yourself, otherwise and soon, there will not be any wells to produce if you let Obama keep having his way with you. I say stand up to the feds and escort them of the reservation. The operators could even self-govern until you get it together. Most of us are honest and respectable operators. We could assist you in your efforts and maybe even lend some of our trained personnel at no cost to you on a temporary basis while you build your own management team. We could rotate some of our techs and field personnel.
Dang
DeleteYou don't know the Osage government and you can never underestimate the bottomless greed of these Osage County government Osages. In 2006, before the vote on the Osage Constitution, there were about 10-15 departments with a staff of maybe 100-200 total employees and that included those hired at the Osage Agency running on about $350,000 to $400,000. Now there are + or - 550 employees with departments, offices, divisions, boards and commissions upwards of FORTY-FIVE of them total and that may not account for and include the study groups and various and other sundry that are sucking off the Osage Nation's teats. Last year we ripped through a total of amount, all in, of roughly $60,000,000 to $65,000,000 !!! So please don't talk to US about feeling the love. And don't even think about asking US to turn around. DANG IS DAMN RIGHT !!!
DeleteThis is about the interests of the Shareholders and payment continuing forward for the headright owners. The Osage Nation will be a nightmare of literally Titianic proportions if you let them run this mineral estate business. They will run it right into the ground in record time. You shouldn't even suggest it because you will be 1000% worse off in a year or less if you think this is an option. They are exactly like high school football stars who head out into the real world thinking they own it and are entitled to whatever they want without any ability to make whatever they want happen successfully. If you even so much as expect them to put in solid day's work and ask them to expidite anything, they will put whatever you want them to do in the bottom of the drawer, forgotten until the next employee who replaces them finds it later. Don't think for a second that I'm kidding. These Osages are erudite Grand Masters of the Art of passive-agressive behavior in no uncertain terms and punishing is putting it lightly if you can't be satisfied with Indian Time. Half of them can't do what they are hired to do and so another is hired to do the job who can only handle 50% of the job description and then a third is hired who may or may not be able to get the job done any better than the other two employees who are still on the payroll. They are there for the paycheck but don't want to work for it and don't really know how to set about doing the work anyway. Next you'll be subject to some relative of the Chief or of an Osage family with a high vote count in the position of managing director who will do absolutely nothing about whatever it is that you need them to do to get the employee to do the work you need to have done. You have no idea what you are doing if you think this is an actionable idea. A worse case scenario is putting it nicely. Half the battle is getting them to show up for work and stay there for the rest of the day. I'm sorry to have to put it to you like this but there it is and if you can risk your business on a business environment like this then you won't be in business for long nor should you.
Deletehttps://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/news-events/events/bia-director-visit-osage-nation
DeleteHoly smoke! Really? I guess you are just going to turn your blankets away from them and they will be so embarrassed that they will change their ways and loosen the chokehold on you.
DeleteI never suggested that the new Osage government get involved. I was suggesting that the Shareholders man-up and take over the control of their asset. I was suggesting that the Shareholders team-up with the producers and to hell with the Osage Nation and the Obama administration. Reclaim your mineral estate. Give the ON and Obama notice then take action. Make sure the news media is present for documentation. Don't just roll over and do nothing. You're getting ready to loose everything. Go for broke and make some waves. You don't have to take it anymore. What do you have to lose? It's going, gone, gone, gone. No new drills, no maintenance on existing wells, operators not making additional investments, no new operators moving in to take their place. If I was Chairman of the OMC, I would call the Osage Nation Law enforcement officers and have them put on their riot gear and promptly remove every single BIA personnel off of the premises. Take their assets like Venezuela did to the USA and threaten them not to come back. Screw this administration and the horse they rode in on.
I love this! The End.
DeleteSeptember 2, 2015 at 7:24 PM, I three wish we could all ride into the sunset but the shareholders are beneficiaries in a trust situation. If the Feds walk out on this particular trust created by the 1906 Allotment Act as amended and shut down its operation and existence, there are no shareholders or headright owners who will receive quarterly headright payments from a defunct Federal trust account. If the trust is dissolved, along with it go the beneficiaries and the income from the mineral rights then comes back out of the trust and is given to the Osage Nation as the legal owner of the reserved mineral rights and the income generated from them. It all devolves back directly to the Osage Nation government as so stated in the 1938 Act to amend the 1906 Allotment Act. We have no standing to take over anything if we are no longer beneficiaries of this trust if it is coming to a termination point by the Federal government. The Feds hold all the cards and always have where the headright owners are concerned. You have to have an ownership position legally to proceed with an idea like this and none of us know where we even are now and won't until Mike Black comes into town and tells us what's going to happen next.
DeleteBTW there, the OMC Chairman and every other member of the Minerals Council are Osage Nation elected officials and are paid directly out of the Osage Nation Treasury. They go renegade and the Chief could call a halt to the payment of their salaries and probably be able to get away with it. This is like one of those sleep paralysis dreams that you can't wake up from suspended in limbo and no way to move or even lift a finger. Horrible!
DeleteThe Osage Shareholders can not stand alone in this modern world.
DeleteThats why we must stand together.
DeleteThey are Elected officials but not by the Nation our Government. And they are not paid thru the Nation Treasury. This is paid thru a drawdown from the M.E owned by the Shareholder's. We are the ones who developed the Nation thru our M.E the first Casino built by using the M.E as collateral which the 30th and 31st council sold us out. Of which we yet have to yet collect on tbe collateral. I know this. Let the hammer fall where it does.
DeleteIt was an Osage Nation election held under the auspices of the Minerals Estate with their rules. It was separate but it was still run under the auspices of the Osage Nation and not the BIA. Their paychecks may come from the drawdown out of the C395 account but I'm not even sure about that. Those checks may still come from the Osage Nation Treasury.
DeleteTo September 3, 2015 at 1:30 AM
DeleteFinally, someone is making some sense here. Thank you!
The Estate will not be dissolved. Silly bird. Had we been prepared and had a full running Petroleum office with a IT dept. with a skilled technician to handle the P.R we would not be seeing the fear mongering that is going on. Had we been kept in the know we could have spearheaded some of the law suits. Had we had ties of direct communication with our Land Owners and Producers we could have identified and worked directly to resove any issue that would arise. We have become so predictable and this is no accident. Change needs to come in the worst way. Statring with a New Body of M.C. No one who is directly affiliated with the Nation nor has worked for the Nation and would not be allowed to work for any other office at the same time. We know we have Moles. Bottom line, the Shareholder's will get their accountability and transparency. No kore monopoly on the poor decisions by our M.C without a vote from the Shareholder's.
DeleteThat's correct, the minerals estate will not be dissolved. It will still exist but the full ownership of the reserved mineral rights and the royalty income coming from them that include leases and bonusus will be wholly owned by the Osage Nation government. Without a trust in place there can be no beneficiaries of the trust and this is the category that the Headright owners fall into in order to receive quarterly income from the Federally managed mineral estate Trust. If the DOI/BIA managed Federal Osage Mineral Estate Trust is coming to an end and is going to be dissolved by the U.S. Congress who holds the plenary power over all Tribal matters where the U.S. Government is concerned, the income will be collected by the owner of that income who will then be the Osage Nation. What I fear is that the current set of headright owners will then be pitted against the Osage Nation government itself. This may all have been caused because the Chief may have been trying to get the Feds in Washington D.C., to make a change to let the Osages manage the trust by themselves with minimal involvement of the BIA. From the meeting on Monday, it appears to me at least, that things have gone out of control and specifically that the Chief has lost control of the situation, probably as a result of the gross mismanagement of the Osage, LLC., and other business interests that that the Osage Nation has failed to manage properly. It's very likely that the U.S. Congress sees this as a very bad idea especially since there has also been a pitched battle going on on the part of the three new government Chiefs for Osage Nation overweaning control over the Minerals Estate where the Osage Minerals Council is concerned and such a constant tug of war is not conducive to a proper professional business environment in the oil and gas business. This is probably why the U,S. Congress is going with a transitional Plan B with a compact with the State government of Oklahoma. If we do well there then we can move to a TERA once the legislation has gone through the U.S. Congress and is signed by the President. Then we can begin to run the minerals estate ourselves but I don't think the current set of headright owners will be drawing a quarterly payment check at this juncture unless the U.S. Congress mandates that the current set of Shareholders today receive income under that compact. Once the Feds are out of the picture altogether under a TERA and are no longer involved, the Osage Nation government will then be in a position to reset the deck as to who receives income from the Osage Nation managed Mineral Estate under a TERA. Placing us in the path of Oklahoma State regulations is very problematic for the Osage Nation for one important reason and I don't really think this option is doable for that reason.
DeleteTwo comments in the last several months have come out from two elected officials:
Delete"If John Red Eagle hadn't been thrown out of office this wouldn't even be happening."
"Oil is down and it's a good time for the Nation to go in and take over."
Man, I have to agree with what you are saying..The Chiel as I pointed out earlier has gone renegade. Did he exercise independent judgement for the overall benefit of the M.E and all of its Shareholder's ?In the same capacity the M.C in this case we are dual sorta of speak, we are at arms length with the Nation, owe the same duty of good management. And then you have the bureau who seems to making up rules as they go along, I say this because in someone else's post I read sometime ago was the CFR's the M.C signed off to Washington was manipulated? Not just that the failure to maximize the M.E profit after three years since the HPP. Have the rights of the Shareholder's been abrogated at all directions it has..but we are not alone in this fight either..as oblique it is, the OCC will not come in, the Nation will not come in but what will come in is the Mighty Hammer of the Federal Court will have the last word with the Nation and State. Federal Law trumps and in this case no different will rule no other way in favor of the M.E ahd before the deck is served on a platter. Ours will be served as Desert Bon Appetit all a carte a Osage Constitutional Convention. Long live the 1906 Act and what truly being Sovereign means. Long live the Osage Tribe.
DeleteTo poster @ 12:13 pm. I don't agree with your first comment because the only thing I can come up with why JRE got elected was for his inability to see the forest for the trees. And I think that says it as nicely as I can be. I believe he was played. To obvious. Second isn't so hard to believe, this tug a war has been going on for decades. But who ever you are. Stay tuned. This was not what our Elders expected or wanted I know this to be true. We are gearing for an Osage Constitutional Convention. We see it as the only alternative. And it is being discussed seriously.
DeleteTonight! Wind Farm meeting in Greyhorse:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1615078728775611&set=a.1615078762108941.1073741828.100008204974654&type=1&theater
Inertia is indeed killing us and all we still have today.
Deletehttp://osagenews.org/en/article/2015/09/02/osage-community-members-petition-government-action-wind-turbines/
There is no reason why a Osage Shareholder Constitutional Convention can not be done. With all the in fighting we see, chances are it would be another 10 years before a final draft would be ready for a final vote.We just don't have that kind of time.
ReplyDeleteThank you. It isn't as if I had not pointed out a while back the direction we were moving in John. If I may call you by your first name. You know what we should do is have a private meeting draft a New Constitution and then with one phone call thats all it would take right? After all we are the( Moral Majority) right? I think we need to let the dust settle a little. Then we go in. In the mean while we can organize a strong foothold with all the Shareholder's for fiscal responsibility. We need to structure our MINERAL OFFICE. We need to move the M.C to the back, pay them their 75 dollars a meeting which would be 600 dollars a meeting, about 8400 a year give or take. Hire 8 preople for a petroleum office starting salary commences based on experience bonuses paid depending on performance. This should take care of the draw down.. A legal secretary can multi task and 2 doolars out of our checks would pay for her Salary and a bonus at the end of the year. Our success is built around the success of the M.E...information is elementary to the success of any business good or bad..time for the status quo to change. We have a future and the way I see it we need to act now.
DeleteHow do we attain the Trust of 65% of the Osage Shareholder voting block? As Shareholders we must maintain our MC. There is a whole bunch of opportunities for unity.
DeleteYes sir. I am diligently working on this matter. John believe it when I say the M.E will not be desolved. Let the dust settle a little. I know where the problems lie. I will be reaching out to all of you. You can't run a multi billion dollar Estate from the Arm Chair. I have IT technicians ready to come install with formatting programs that will assit in our development of the M.E. at a good price. This will Ll be shared and not under the sheets.I am already talking with other Shareholder's not just on this site but by phone as well. Who concur. The M.C does not have a clue how we feel about them or our Chief. We don't have to wait till Mike Black gets here and we don't have to wait to structure a foundation with a criteria that should have been implemented when the HPP suit was settled. And really if you think about it it should have happened in 2006. We can make this happen. We don't have a choice.
Delete65% of the voting base would be more like 800. Not the entire shareholder's is it? Thats because of not everyone or shareholder's are completely comprised of our situation and that is no accident. In 2006 when we became a Nation John, and I being a huge stake owner in all of this did not get my Vote. Had I been comprised I would have said hail to the No. So do Osage Lives matter yeas they do. Part of the problem is when we became a Government it was to allow more membership. Then the Nation wanted to convert to citizenship which would have allowed for more taxation. And instead opened the Pandora's box to allow a vote in shareholder's matters by the constituency of which why? Those who are not Shareholder's or receive an annuity from the M.E how is it they get a vote in our matters? These laws are not to protect but pulmapulmagate the Nation so they can try to get control....not going to happen. Long over due should the damage be reversed into forward motion...As I have said before who is the one person who has led us in this direction and who still wants to keep the status quo I think has a lot to hide, because the truth is there for us to see. This is why we need to take control and look at exactly what Our M.C is getting paid for and how it is being spent in terms for the betterment of the Estate. I am one of those people in my expertise identify the problems and bring back the viability of a company that can turn this around to become effective and efficient. To many hands in the cookie jar.
DeleteIf you look back at the history of the ratification of the Constitution of the United States you will see that the majority did not support it either, yet here we are. The small minority comprised of the legislatures held conventions and voted to dissolve the original Articles of Confederation and form a new government, even though the citizens feared what a monster it could become. More often than not, the majority is ruled by a manipulative minority who just won't follow the laws they establish.
DeleteSo says History and History has a history of repeating itself.
DeleteI hear that at the next MC meeting a resolution is going to be presented to hand our Mineral Estate over to the Nation and the Chief. This is stupidity on an unprecedented scale. The Mineral Estate is sovereign. That has been addressed by the US Congress as far back as the 40s it has been reaffirmed by numerous court decisions most recently of which was on Aug. 10th of this year. We are SOVEREIGN. Now members of the OMC want to give that sovereignty away to the Nation. They want to give away your rights to determine your future. They want to give away your rights to administer your property. We shareholders can not let this action pass. Our sovereignty does not belong to any member of the OMC to give away. It belongs to the Osage shareholders not them. Don't buy into their scare tactics. It's all a ruse, call your US Congressman I did. That's all that these people who want to take us over have left, lies and scare tactics. Any resolution to hand over our Mineral Estate in part or entirety must be stopped.
ReplyDeleteI think you are mistaken about the next Osage Mineral Council meeting. The Council members are certainly concerned about the current situation and researching what can be done to protect the mineral estate but I do not think they are considering the actions you mention in your post.
DeleteI thought it was just ridiculous that post.
DeleteI think it's been all twisted up to scare us again.
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ReplyDeleteAs a reminder, ndnlawyer is me, Chief Standing Bear.
ReplyDeleteFederal law is superior to any tribal or state law. I am a licensed attorney of our federal courts. As an Officer of the Court for 35 years I uphold the law. The posts which accuse me or my administration of seeking to violate federal law and my oath are false. The only way to lose your headright is to die. Then it must pass to your lineal heirs of Osage blood, but you can will it to an adopted child. You are allowed to leave a life estate to a living person but after their death it reverts to your heirs. No where does federal law allow any other path. The Osage Nation cannot be your heir, at all. The fight is really about the provision in the 1906 Act which was affected by the 2004 Osage Act which became federal law.
ReplyDeleteFor a few decades,I have watched our Chief from a far.I have shared posts with him on many important issues concerning the Osage.He has given me peace many a time,to a point I didn't worry about those issues and I moved on towards other Osage issues. Just about everything which is Osage is under construction and after many decades of learning about the Osage issues and it is my opinion only.Chief Standing Bear is the best among the Osage at this time,to represent us as a People,a nation and all which is our Osage past.
DeleteThank you for posting Chief which provision are you talking about?
DeleteHow many of the Osage know of investors, who would invest in and among the Osage? Myself,the problem has always been instability,among the different groups which make up Osage Politics.Ever new Osage election, things change , a neverending circle.There comes a time when enough is enough.
DeleteChief, the concern here is this; no one that I know of is under the understanding that anyone else can take your headright away but what happens to the income that comes from it that is dispersed by the OST from the Federal Trust account if this trust is terminated by the U.S. Congress and the account is closed? We are seeing the income dropping in this account as a result of various factors and because of that, the quarterly payment is dropping. If there is nothing, that is, no income and therefore no money being held in this account for disbursement to the headright owners because the account has been closed by the OST or the BIA, whoever handles this matter, there will be no payment checks issued. You can have headrights all day long but if there is no money in the trust account you won't receive OME generated income from it. What the question here is, is what is going to happen to the OME Federal Trust if we are going to transition to a compact with the State of Oklahoma and what will become of the current Trust account where the income from minerals royalties and bonuses is collected today for quarterly disbursement to the headright owners, for gross production taxes and the Mineral Council drawdown? Will this trust account remain intact and left alone and will the Feds continue to collect the OME income and deposit it into the current Federal trust account for quarterly disbursement to the current roster of Osage headright owners?
DeleteChief, in my opinion you should answer these questions. This is your constituency who put you in office who has some real great concerns. Some of us do undestand the Politics sir and being political correct does not suit you well. Look at the largeness of the landscape and the longness of our History. So shall you dawn your true colors once again.Just read a good read. The People And the Word by Robert Allen Warrior.
DeleteTo add to what 10:40 said, what happens to us if the Osage Nation takes us over. We may still have our headrights and the trust may still be intact but administration of the Mineral Estate would be reserved to a Nation that technically doesn't answer to us. Beyond that, in my opinion, it would be reserved to a Nation that has shown occasion after occasion it lacks the ability to prudently administrate much of anything be that casino construction, LLCs, investments, bloated personnel, or even a community garden. Off the top of my head I can't think on one instance in which the Nation has demonstrated vigilant or even reasonable management skills that would give me faith they have the capacity to administer the Mineral Estate.
DeleteAnd here's the kicker. If the Nation was to take administrative duties of the Mineral Estate and muck it up, as history indicated, the shareholders are left with no recourse. If we had to go to court the Feds would point at your government and walk away. We have no recourse in the Osage courts because the award of monetary damages, even in the case of demonstrated harm, are banned by the Osage constitution, not to mention you don't have the money anyway. But perhaps the biggest problem of all, the Nation does not answer to us (the shareholders). The Nation answers to some 19,000 disparate Osages around the globe (with some suggesting enrollment drives to increase that number to 26,000). Why would 4,006 shareholders expect they even have a chance at having a voice in that environment. Are we left only to hope that when pressure starts to build the Nation doesn't sell us out? Are we left only to hope if all this indebtedness the Nation is incurring is called in that our Mineral Estate might not be on the table in some fashion? If the Nation controls production they control the cash going into the trust. They can stop production and we are left with no recourse because then its a inter-tribal matter.
The courts have affirmed our (the Mineral Estates) inherent sovereignty by what logic should we give that away? I know the Nation is fond of signing away it's sovereignty for buildings, but if they ever get them paid for theoretically at least they get it back. We have to give away our sovereignty for ever. We give it to the Nation and it's gone forever and we get nothing in return. That would be just stupid on our part.
For my part I would like to see the Nation come up with some rational well laid out business models that make it a success. I would like to see the NEPOTISM that's strangling us stop. Quit skirting NIGC rules. I would like to see some people hauled into court and sent to jail for stealing from our LLCs. I would like some accountability. I would like to see some honesty rather than the instigation of drama. Work on these problems and quit going to Washington and "knocking on doors" complaining that the OMC won't talk to you. You were elected at large you represent a different constituency, come to terms with it. With what respect I can muster, just stay away from Minerals. You have enough of challenge on your plate.
I don't know how many times we have to remind them over and over and over and over again. Here is a comment on this Blog from Archive #19: Osage Shareholder Matters--May-June 2015:
Delete"Again, we should reflect on the bill that was passed that gave us the opportunity to govern ourselves, P.L. 108-431. Read what was stated aloud on the floor of the Congress in the U.S. Congressional Record, V. 150, PT. 8, May 18, 2004 to June 1, 2004 with regard to the Headrights:
"It is past time to consider letting the Osage Tribe determine how to govern itself as it sees fit, providing no one loses any property or other vested legal rights (like the loss of MEMBERSHIP in Shannon Edwards' Osage Nation Congressional Membership Bill of 2006?) in the process. H.R. 2912 (P.L. 108-431) includes language to insure that no one's interest in headright shares is touched. Headrights are private property, and there is no intent to affect them under this bill."
https://books.google.com/books?id=DbK9zpJ1ipEC&pg=PA11080&lpg=PA11080&dq=Osage+Shareholders+Association&source=bl&ots=yW8woA9CoW&sig=Lx61C-0qgih6yN0zrJL8V3lkd80&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Wz5aVc_REYqWyQTM84HIAQ&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=Osage%20Shareholders%20Association&f=false
The personal property the U.S. Congress is referring to, from the headright; which is the right to receive the quarterly income from the Osage Mineral Estate, are to be left alone. What more do these government Osages need to understand this concept? Do they need to be slapped up the side of the head to get them to come to and wake up from their delusions of greed? They are letting this caustic greed steal their souls and it's destroying them with how rotten with it they with it are through and through. They need to get ahold of themselves before they destroy everything we have ever had or ever will. They are a clear and present danger to themselves and all of the rest of us combined. The Act we need is one of the Osage Nation Congress to pledge that they will never act against the headright owner's OME income interest or Federal law and prohibit any other branch of the Osage government from ever doing so now or or in the future.
Ok you brought it up, I wasn't. The cost overruns of the buildout of said Casino's in my experience in Construction these cost overruns fall back to the estimators of the job basically the company is responsible for covering the cost overruns that goes above the percentage of the cost overrun rate. Unless approved other wise. Then this comes back to the Dept of Appropriations. Office of Budget. On any job the foreman is not to Authorize any project, change in material or authorize addintional work force, be it hiring or authorizing overtime without notification are not consulting the contract or knows what is applicable for this Job..The foreman is to work with the superintendent directly. The Job should never continue with out one present. This is why a foreman gets good pay. I want to know how this job was marked up and the Company who did the JOB should absorb half the cost if not all. Yep it will go against their gross, but then theres way to absorb the cost...This is one example of many Chief that you now have the attention of the Minority again. Should we go underground again.
DeleteDing ding ding, its great you point out the facts folks but read my question what provision in the 1906 act would affect the 2004 Act to be not in effect?
DeleteThat is the provision. It's the only one in this particular Act of the U.S. Congress that pertains to the headrights.
Delete...particular (2004) Act...
DeleteThe few times I have been to any of the I'n-Lon-Schka's , I was never asked to leave or barred because I was not on the list of Osage shareholders. Does this mean anything at all in the world of the Osage. To me it does, it shows We are of the Osage.Our past our present and our future are inter linked without federal , state or world juristiction. But it took a act of US congress to legally accept the Osage as the People. But they went even further by re-affirming the Osage have always been the Osage , way before their claim of constitutional authority. Their bad not ours. This Osage fighting has just got to stop before it's too late.
DeleteThen tell them to leave our property and income alone and quit frightening us every chance they get.
DeleteA headright is much more than just a right to a portion of royalty interest. It includes the right to participate (through voting or running for office) in the election of the governing body charged with the mineral estate's administration. If the Osage Nation government exerts control over the mineral estate it would diminish the headright owners' rights in violation of the 2004 Act.
DeleteThat's dead on 3:27. For such a simple concept so many in the Nation have such a hard time understanding it. Or at least they don't want to understand it.
DeleteSeptember 4, 2015 at 11:50 AM is dead on too. Sensible and well thought out comments in both instances.
DeleteTo the poster at 12:06 PM. A contributing factor to the cost overruns is that Osage Manhattan Builders is a sham organization. OMB has not had employees, none of the Osage LLC management were qualified to manage construction projects, and all work was performed by Manhattan Builders. OMB was formed as a joint venture between Osage LLC and Manhattan Builders, a division of Manhattan Construction Company. The entire situation is a failure of the Enterprise Board, and of the Commerce and Economic Development Committee for not providing better oversight.
DeleteI see the big picture. Chief, please explain to your constituency how the Cost overruns happened with the build out of the Casinos. I want to know how this happened! To much room for corruption. From what I understand the Board didn't get under the terms and conditions of policy to get other bidders. Which the Contract was a fixed Contract by default. Manhattan Builders are on the hook for going above the estimate. This is why it is so paramount to understanding what the contract consists and know the plans...I am in Contruction..Paving. you get hit from all directions from drivers wanting overtime, to your labor wanting Overtime..to Asphalt Companies trying to get away with going over on material...from rentals and so forth...not to this magnitude. You have to verify, or your company is on the hook...so by the way it looks the money is being laundered...just keeping it real..I am in accounting as well..
DeleteAbout the BIA Director Mike Black meeting, what in the world is he going to be talking about for 2 solid hours?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/calendar?field_category_tid%5B0%5D=5
To be sure,its about the future of the Osage. Out of the 4006 shareholders how many are Wards of the US Government ? That is just one common responsibility has. Along with a small mound of other responsibilities
DeleteHopefully, an apology to the Shareholders, producers and the community at-large, then a statement that he is firing the Superintendent.
DeleteThen he could ask all the producers to provide him with a statement of expenses they incurred trying to implement the new CFR's for reimbursement purposes. He could then tell us that the DOI/BIA are going to drop the EA's, NEPA and ABB issues and let the producers get back to drilling and producing their wells. He could then jump on one of the federal horses from the Drummonds or Turner ranches and ride off into the sunset being careful not to crush a beetle bug.
Great post! From your keyboard to Mike Black's eyes. Visions of sugar plums are dancing in my head...
DeleteMike Black have you reached all the Shareholder's or just the minority?
DeletePoor you. Just because the shareholders didn't give you the money you want them to for the legal fund doesn't mean they aren't read only and that they don't come in every single day by the hundreds.
DeleteIf it wasn't for the producers the Shareholders wouldn't have gotten the temporary injunction. The MC's attorneys were lame and owe the producer's attorney thanks for carrying the ball. Obviously from your smart ass comment, I guess the Shareholders still deem the producers as adversaries. They are fleeing to more friendly territories thanks to the likes of you and your kind. Good luck with the bingo casinos and windmills. Maybe you can gather up and sell beetle bugs since your feds think they are so valuable. Sell photos of the feds horses to passer byes. Keep every dollar of your damn Indian check and smoke it. The producers are headed to more friendly pastures.
DeleteTo poor you: Congratulations!
DeleteYou are actually the first poster on this site that actually tried to shame the producers for asking for assistance. Most of the folks on this blog are appreciative of the producers' efforts in this dilemma even though they do not contribute to them financially. Four Shareholders out of thousands contributed a total of $100.00 which is about twenty minutes of legal fees. At least they didn't shame the producers for asking for help.
You're a sick pup. Please seek help. God bless you!
Like I wrote...POOR YOU! So full of bitterness, venom and contempt. Cool your jets and settle down. No one is ever interested in giving money to anyone who brow beats and belittles everyone in sight. If you can't grow wise, at least have the good grace to grow up. If you can't do that then I guess there's no hope for you at all because it sure does look like you're bent, twisted and weird at the core.
DeleteAgain to POOR YOU!:
DeleteThank goodness you do not represent most of the Shareholders' attitudes.
I have found during this past year of aggression by the Obama administration that the Shareholders in general have developed a much better relationship with the producers than in the past and they have been sympathetic to the plight of the producers even though they are not making financial contributions to the legal defense fund. You can take your hateful unappreciative attitude to another blog; you're the one that seems bitter. The rest of us are just trying to survive this vindictive aggression by DOI/BIA. In the meantime, you can keep drinking Crum's coolaide. We'll still keep fighting for you anyway.
The Chief is trying his best to help all Osages and all you do on here is bad mouth him. HE HAS SAID NUMEROUS TIMES HE DOES NOT WANT TO CONTROL THE M.E. JUST HELP THEM. WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? THE MINERALS COUNCIL NEEDS TO BE REPLACED. THERE IS NO OPENESS, COMMUNICATION ETC. JUST EXE. MEETING. THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT GAS AND OIL BUSINESS EXCEPT 2 OR 3. NO OFFICE EMPLOYEES THAT KNOW ANYTHING EITHER.
ReplyDeleteIs that so? I guess you didn't hear that the whole idea from the Nation's side of it is an all out effort to crush the Minerals Council at all cost. You've been sold a bill of goods that won't benefit your interest in the headright you own or the amounts you receive in your quarterly payments. Disinformation sells elsewhere else but here. I just don't buy it and neither does anyone who knows who's working for them. The Osage Nation lost $19,000,000. The Minerals Council settled the HPP lawsuit which put $156,000 per headright in the personal bank accounts of the shareholders. Now who is managing finances better? Who has stopped, together with the OPA, those oil and gas business killing new CFRs when the Nation's Congress and the Chief -- who was himself occupied with opining on fb in an all out inane effort to continue to try to crush the Minerals Council -- were neither one, anywhere in sight including inside the Courtroom when the injunction was put in place by the Judge. If you want loser results, I guess you side with losers. In a results oriented situation, the team that is getting the proven right result for the headright owners is without question, the Minerals Council, not the Osage Nation. Maybe you need to rethink the side you're taking and start smart tomorrow morning.
DeleteThe Chief just doesn't seem to understand how awful and what an appalling failure the Osage Nation is to nearly all of us who don't work for the Osage government. I am frightened to death of letting any of them from the Osage Congress and the Executive Branch any closer than a continent and an ocean away from the Mineral Estate. Talk about a textbook example of tunnel vision, this is the genuine article. He appears to be so out of touch with the reality of the headright owners on the ground which is so warped because he used to understand or at least he talked a hell of good game once upon a time.
DeleteI don't think the person above understands that her money from the Nation is being tossed like a green salad.That she is entitled to a Per-Cap, that her rights have been taken away by a Government for the few , the Nepotism and cronyism. A renegade Congress who thinks they have the respect of their compadres but really whats being said behind their back is the unspoken truth, That sums it up in short of course.
DeleteNowhere in the present Osage Constitution can I find where all members are entitled to a per-cap. Many things look and seem to be wrong,that just is the process of growing pains. Unspoken truths are many. Has anyone ever wondered why,non Osage shareholders have never demanded their right to exist as a People or a Tribe or a Nation? Sure many of the Osage over a few decades exersized and maintained Osage constitutions in many forms and through the federal court they failed.Yet the Osage still continue to maintain a constitutional document.Still today we have Osage trying to destroy.
DeleteJohn it was the premise.
DeleteIt certainly was the premise and the promise... Still dead in the water despite how the money coming into the the Osage Nation continues to freely flow.
Delete$40 to 45 million in Tribal funding a year. They move the number around to justify spending all the time. BUT not on us. $25,000,000 for them and $15 million for us and they just can't stand it. Those numbers are so upside down it isn't funny but you couldn't make them aware of that if you tried from now on.
Delete11:39 your post brings up a bigger question, how much money do the casinos have laying around, which apparently is not accounted for to the Osage Nation or at least the Osage Congress, that if we need it they can just give us an extra $6,000,000.00? How much money do they have laying around? Where is that cash coming from? Is it not already allocated? Do they have it invested? Is it sitting in back room on a table? How is it so easy to access such an amount?
DeleteI thought very the same thing, how is it just laying around. How about getting those turkey vouchers out to the Constituents for the Holidays this year?
DeleteThis Constitution was drafted without input from me, but until it is changed the Osage operate under it. I am for a separate Minerals Council to do leases and all the relationships with OST and BIA Minerals Department. That entity could have all the authority over minerals from the 1906 Act. Anyone who knows my history in the Osage knows this. I supported our efforts to create two separate governing bodies. The new government was the Osage National Council. We were doing well until Chief Tillman asked Browning Pipestem to file the court papers to dissolve the arrangement. So ended the two government experiment which led to this Osage Constitution. Do you not remember all of this?
ReplyDeleteChief did the Constituency get a vote on this Matter? And can you tell us the reason why?
DeleteWhat I remember is that the National Council wasn't doing well at all. What I remember is that there was a movement on the part of Eddy Red Eagle and Raymond Theis who were National Council members to try and take over the Minerals Council and Tillman had had enough of the end runs that he had to deal with and got into Court to not only expose the illegal nature of National Council under Federal law but to drop kick it into the trash can which is exactly what we should do with this new greed driven stupid self-serving new government put in place by non-headright owners, 60% of whom still see little if any help or benefit from what you government people have set up under it. Does any of this sound familiar with what you "support" today? I heard you've got your casino people trying to give the Congress another $6 million. Why don't you give that to the non-headright owners in a per cap instead of spending it on yourselves and this government for the government people you employ and lavish our money on every chance you get? Who runs the Casinos as CEO now Chief and how are you exactly related to him?
DeleteI voted in one of those National Council elections in the 1990's. I saw a report that to get rid of that National Council monstrosity, it cost the Mineral Council run by Tillman about a million bucks. You we're on board somewhere in there as Assistant Chief and then resigned for some reason. Maybe you can bring us up to speed on what happened there.
The new Osage Constitution SPECIFICALLY gives the Minerals Council and Agency created by it the management, administration and development of the Osage Mineral Estate within Osage County as perfectly detailed in plain english in Article XV, Section 4 and that's a hell of lot more than just the OST and the BIA. When are you government people outside the sphere of the Minerals Agency going to accept and live with the parameters set by the Osage Nation Constitution and quit working the edges on this thing? You people are out of control and the damage you're doing continues to sky rocket with every attempt on the Mineral Estate you make. You want to go into the oil and gas business and lose your shirt in the process? Do it with your government casino money and do it and outside of Osage County. There's a great big world out there for you to continue to fail from a business standpoint on a galactic scale. You people want to put your toe in this water and come to understand the term "scorched earth" in real not Indian time in the real world, you're welcome to it and to do it outside of Osage County but leave the Osage Minerals Estate for the umpteen millionth time ALONE!
Right you are! Stay out of minerals business Chief. How many times do you and the rest of your business incompetent following have to be told?
DeleteThat's telling the man. Good. To that let me add this; get gone away from the OME with your ridiculous troupe of Tribal Troubadours and stay gone from now on. Man you and yours are really something, trying to finish us off and end the hatchet job started by that $^%#*&^D Jim Gray.
DeleteOnce more, they've got that Eddie Red Eagle to be front man in there to do the dirty work with this Osage Energy Services LLC. It didn't work back then and cost the headright owners a boatload of money in the '90s and now here they are making a run at it again. CSCR: Cyclical Stupidity Continually Recycled.
DeleteThe way I am seeing it and Thank you Poster@9:46am. As long as the rights of the Shareholder's are not abrogated and under the Supreme 1906 Act The Osage Nation can not exist without THE 8 Council MEMBERS a Chief and AP Chief. Now the 1906 Act is still in full force why is the COUNCIL allowing a DE Facto GOVERNMENT to EXIST? We are a Governing body .2004 ACT is Null and VOID? Oh by the way a Per-Cap will have to go to all Osages, not just non-headright owners.
DeleteYou're welcome. Should have said perimeter not parameters.
DeleteIt sure looks like the Chief is at it again.
Deletendnlawyer you brought it up... To add to what 9:46 said, some of us where here during the National Council days, the National Council was not doing "well." Quiet the contrary in fact. As I remember when the National Council was established the BIA gave you all, what was it, about $2,000,000.00 to get your feet on the ground. That money was to last you two years or something like that. The National Council spent every dime of that in a year or less (half of what it was supposed to last anyway) on furniture, NEPOTISM, and travel all over the country. Then the National Council went back to the BIA and asked for more money and they were promptly shown the door. Once that happened they you (they) started eyeing the Mineral Estate floating every idea from taxing headrights to a complete take over. That was the impetus for Chief Tillman's filing. It wasn't the "greed" of the shareholders which I think your post seems to be implying. The failure of the National Council ...that's all on the National Council.
DeleteI have to ask. Don't you find it funny how history has a way of repeating itself, buying furniture, NEPOTISM, traveling to all corners of the US, unsustainable spending?
CSCR: Cyclical Stupidity Continually Recycled. Hahahahahaha! Funny how it's always the same people on the team over and over again and they think we would ever forget.
DeleteThank you once again Poster @12:24 PM! NOW THE TRUTH IS SHOWING its ugly face..or face the ugly truth..No reason to wallow in our sorrow, do not fear big and small we will stand tall in our endeavor. Like I said we are a Case Study. So predictable. As the facts show they speak louder than words history is repeating itself. And we are here to put an end to this insanity should we go down under remains to be seen. Time for the fingers to stop pointing and time to get off our duff and have that real discussion to restore the GOVERNMENT if they cannot hold them selves accountable. Enough with the excuses. Who wrote the Osage Nations Constitution in 2004? Did the BIA help? And where did the 2 million come from for the ONC? How many people sat on the ONC? And are there records of how that money was spent?
DeleteThis was a job by the OGRC (Osage Government Reform Commission) who Jim Gray put in place along with the other members of the 31st Tribal Council plus Harvard had a Constitutional language database that was utilized as well. It looked like Romper Room with all the ideas it floated initially but it was eventually structured to build a governing document like a steel bear trap from which none of us can escape. It was bad news then and it's bad news today. We should never have changed governments now that all is said and done. It's way over their heads and too unwieldy to manage. It's turned into a thinly veiled method of shoveling out gaming revenue to those who work for the Osage government and as much of it as they can get away with year in and year out. Basically, it's legal grand theft for those who live and work in Osage County and a way to hand out patronage jobs to keep getting elected to office over and over again. When the members of the Congress leave or aren't reelected, they still find ways of getting paid as Executive Staff. on Boards, Commissions or study groups. Millions of our money and all of those employed get merit bonuses every year whether they deserve them or not. Years ago on Kent's OSA Blog, one brave soul used to call them maggots on the dying carcass of the dream of our new government. It's dead now with all the nepotism, cronyism, money changing hands for one reason or another here and there, right an left. One of the worst things about it is more they get paid the more arrogant and vindictive they become. It's a greed driven rampant cancer totally out of control on the body of our 9 year old Osage government and I can't think of anything bad enough as to how much these government people in leadership positions need to be punished for what they've done in the past nine years to ruin, use up and destroy everything we were promised it would be from the beginning.
DeleteBTW, Chief. You still have some questions to answer from the comment on September 4, 2015 at 10:40 AM.
DeleteWhat is so galling about Harvard is how much influence they have on NA Tribal communities with that Harvard Project and how very few NAs they actually educate today. 1.4% out of 100% is laughable and a disgrace since they were originally chartered to educate NAs from the beginning of its existence. "...in the Harvard College Charter of 1650 as the “necessary provision for the education of the English and Indian youth” of the land." Perhaps someone needs to remind them about what they were chartered to do and who they were chartered to educate.
Deletehttp://features.thecrimson.com/2015/freshman-survey/makeup/
This too.
Deletehttp://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/12/30/american-indians-go-ivy-league-152768
What's so ugly is that those who had been displaced by the 31st Tribal Council government warned everyone who would listen that the Osage National Council was just a trial run for what was to come if this same bunch got back in to run things. Some listened but not enough to make a crucial difference. Tillman had made some terrible mistakes as a leader and in the way he handled the Councils as Chief. This set the stage for Gray to be very narrowly elected and to move back in the direction of the failed Osage National Council government. No choice was given to stay with what they had in the OGRC's first and only referendum election. It was all about choices involving a Constitutional government but no way to vote against it. The whole thing was set up like a confidence game with total manipulation toward exactly what the ONOs wanted to have put back in place. It was a bad business then and nine years later, with the way they have chosen to handle themselves with our money together with the govt. for govt. pervasive entitlement attitude, it's a mess and getting messier every single day. Losing the reservation was just an example of the arrogance and stupidity pervasive in this government and the shareholders must do whatever they can to keep the current OME trust intact and in place with the Minerals Council separate and independent from it or the Nation will take actions which will ultimately flush it right down the crapper the first chance they get on the basis of what has gone before.
DeleteHarvard does not matter Osage Matters..I get what has transpired and how we transformed. I understand more today than yesterday and not let the past dictate who we are as a People less should we forget...Sovereign is the Osage People, not big Government.Thank you poster Sept 7th @ 11:40 am. Gray is still preaching how wonderful the Harvard experience has changed the Lives of so many Osages as if it was Scientology. How did Harvard Vote? It was the constituency that made this happen by their vote .Non the less reality is a matter of perception..You must agree Histories past is here today once again staring straight into the eagles eye should we soar in the eye of The Eagle should hope return to the watchful eye. Yes the Tilman administration and who had all their hands in the Cookie Jar, from the ONO to ONC, to the OGRI. Who was responsible and representing the mineral trust and estate, The 31st M.C. The BIA. The OSA? When you look at the scope you can get a better perspective, when you look into the scope you can identify..Its no accident where we are at..looking back to the Ratification of the Osage Constitution and the votes..724 no. 1454 yes votes and at the time we only had 4000 members. I believe the number was much hire than that in 2006. Numbers do not lie nor has the circumstances. Just bigger Government waste and a M.C who is a day late and costing the Shareholder's quite a lot. What has not changed and true the consistent non communication exists because the truth is in the provision of the 1906 act and the true Governing body and true law must be protected and that in deed is the truth. The 1906 act was designed to keep threat, fraud and Conflict of interest, and is law. Not with the intent to create another Government which we already had, was to allow for more membership for so federal programs could be granted to those who were Osage but did not have title for ferderal status..the Provision in the 1906 Act "In Perpetuity " . The Ratification of the Constitution in 2006 is indirect conflict of the ruling law? And didn't the BIA help construct the new Constitution? Ah, yes this was in conflict of the 1906 Act. Am I wrong?
DeleteWe are the Osage Tribe we can still determine our fate how our Government should be by design for the Oaage People not someone elses pet project. Or no longer the few. Read the 2004Act, the Congress hereby reaffirms the inherent sovereign right of the Osage Tribe to determine its own form of Government.
DeleteNo. The BIA had nothing whatsoever to do with the new Osage Constitution. It was the OGRC and Harvard all the way. The twink on the new constitution vote was envelopes for absentee ballots that were transparent and you could see if the Osage voted yes or no without even opening the ballot! I heard Hepsi Barnett was seen walking around with a box full of those ballots that were supposedly never even counted. I'll bet they were the no votes on the constititution were largely the ones at the voting machines. In any event, only the membership was supposed to vote and at the time you had to have a headright in order to be a member of the Osage Tribe. That is until Hepsi and the OGRC began to reinterpret the law any which way but loose and added the non-headright owners as voting members even before the membership had been changed by a formal vote in the ballot box to do so. It was rigged process and and rig city all the way to the ratification of this coup d'etat put in by the old Osage National Council to take over again and move forward on the path they were on before Tillman derailed them. You should hear the spending conversation they had today at the opening of the Tzi-Zho Session: http://mixlr.com/osage-nation/4c_tzs_day-1_9-8-15_pt1 More and more spending and still the departments offices and the other Executive Branch can't be satisfied with $40 million from gaming in spending and $43 million in total. We don't get line item budgets anymore to find out where it goes because if we did, we would probably be clamoring to have them jailed for the rest of their lives. Still this isn't enough to satisfy their bottomless pit of greed and they are starting to go after our minerals estate.
DeleteMy breath taken away at the very site our way may be taken away. No one speaks the way.only sees what can be taken away. This coming from some where else. Loudly I sore not to far because I am yours. Do nit understand where this come from only know what is yours.
DeleteI would also like for Mr. Black to recite what the BIA's responsibilities are regarding the Osage Mineral Estate and ask if he thinks the BIA has met and/or satisfied those responsibilities.
DeleteI remember several weeks ago when the Obama administration came to town to tell the operators how they were required to comply with the new regulations imposed upon them that the meetings were not allowed to be filmed or audio recorded. This is total BS.
DeleteIf Mike Black insists on similar restrictions we should escort him out of the building and off of the reservation. We should all immediately vacate the premises and contact every media outlet we can to expose the feds should this happen again.
I hope the OMC members and Shareholders attend tomorrow's presentation by Mike Black. I can't imagine what he will have to say about the condition of the mineral estate since he will not be discussing the subject matter of the lawsuits. I hope someone will be filming the presentation and also hope the press will be attending. I think that the OMC should record the presentation and post it live on the website for all Shareholders to be able to hear. Does anyone know if this will be recorded and streaming live on the website? Due to the seriousness nature of this Obama administration visit, I think it should be broadcast live.
DeleteThe questions I think we should ask of Mr. Black are as follows:
Why did Chief Standing Bear invite you to address us and why did you accept his invitation?
What changes, if any, do you have planned for the Osage Agency office? First and foremost, do you have plans to replace the Superintendent. If not, why? If so, do you plan to replace her with someone who knows anything about oil and gas production? Do you plan to make other personnel changes, upgrade of mapping, reporting, record keeping, well records, software, interactive computer networking with producers and purchasers, etc.
Why are our producers required to submit various reporting forms on white paper, blue paper and green paper? Why not input data in fill-in pdf forms to merged into a simple database?
Why can't the public access current production data and lease status from the BIA Osage Agency? The couple of employees at the Osage Agency cannot answer the question whether or not a lease is available to lease or not with any certainty.
I would also like to know if Mr. Black knows who Galen Crum is and has he ever spoken with him. If so, I would ask what was the subject matter of the conversation.
I'll have more questions by tomorrow's presentation. Please bring your questions and speak up tomorrow.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I heard Galen has a number of those Washington D.C. BIA people on speed dial.
DeleteMr. Black knows Galen very well. Given the lawsuits, I tend to think the O.M.C should avoid the meeting. That's just basic legal advice. It applies why your in a car wreck I see no reason it wouldn't apply here. The Chief set this up for a reason and I guarantee that reason is nothing beneficial to the M.E.
DeleteWe have some very important issues that need to be addressed and Mr .Black in my book his number is 0 he is not our hero. Mr Black has nothing to say from my stand point everyone must wear their blanket and show solidarity with out backs turned to them and have the Press there as well...Osage for fiscal responsibility. It is my hope Mr Revard and other producers will attend and stand tall, we the Osage Tribe the Shareholders will be with you standing united and give there honest opinion and inform the shareholder's on this site their opinion. I live far away but I stand with each and every one of you my Osage Brother and Sisters..we can do this. Mr Black if he cannot answer our Questions what a waste of time. Good luck to you all.
DeleteThis isn't a car accident. It's a train wreck that was predicted if the new government was voted in. The MC handles minerals business with the BIA and to stay away would be negligence. The Nation deals with the BIA in more ways than Minerals so this meeting may be on the compacts that are taking place for healthcare and others associated with the BIA.
DeleteThe Mike Black Meeting is nearly ready to video roll live at https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/multimedia/live-media
ReplyDeleteMeeting is live.
DeleteWhat is going on thus far?
DeleteI do not believe Mike Black when he said he could not speak to how many permits or for that matter Robin Philips. Its like taking the 5th when in reality the BIA will be on the hook for that 100 million in lost revenue as long as this Agency pussy foots around that dollar figure sure to go up even higher..This Agency has created more redundancies. Who was the person who spoke out of line to the producer and told him he needs to be in the Restaurant business. And we can be sure there will be no compacting the Estate. It has been if I havd the CBO came out with the report of 39 areas recommended for improvement, why has it taken 3 years since the report to implement all recommendations? And as far as workovers and permitting process as A shareholder I would think the Producer should go out and do what they hzve to do and let it be up to the Council having the final word as to the fines and not fine them. Hell is going to freeze over if we don't jump start the process I ourselves.
DeleteMary lee Evens I liked how you called out Robin Philipps.
DeleteHas anyone looked at the proposals the Senator Inhoff presented the M.C. if we do not take control for a viable M.E and we cannot orchestrate for a better future of our M.C and demonstrate as well at a performance level we are in for a wake up call. I have been saying all along move the M.C to the back and lets build our engineering office for quite sometime. We do not need another M.C. Now I see why we are in the predicament we are in. Real world thinking needs to come in play..just sayin. It is not as if the M.C has not been warned.
DeleteThank you for responding poster 12:16 pm. Old codger with old Ideas. It is not as if this was not seen. I call it the JRE syndrome. They just did not do their Homework. They did not rise the the level of competence or diligence. Sure there is a lot of stuff as he coined that we did not like about in the CFR's if this is the case why should the SHAREHOLDER be required to except anyfhing less Mr. Abbott and by whos standard? As it is thus far out of 100 million dollars. Thats not chump change we are talkjng about and we are losing end of the Stick .
DeleteYou have an Osage Constitution in place that created and mandates the Minerals Council. Before you come up with such preposterous suggestions, why don't you spend some time away from this blog and educate yourself about what is possible under the new Osage government and what isn't? Let me help you get started --->>>
Deletehttps://www.dropbox.com/s/3kl5z1795sms9ul/Constitution.pdf
That will change soon the ONC. One thing at a time.
DeleteWho was the legal type with the attitude and the pony tail from the BIA side? Typical of the BIA for generations back to the very beginning of the government to government relationship. Our side tried to score some good points on the windfarm issue especially Holly Wells who was deflected by this guy. No reason he couldn't have answered. This was an official meeting and the head guy show up without a tie? This is just typical of the attitude we get from the BIA. Kugee showed respect by taking off his straw hat which can't be said for Mr. Big Shot himself who took over the microphone in the same manner he tries to take over and try to control everything minerals.
DeleteThe meeting with Mike Black was a waste of time and an embarrassment. Sonny Abbott showed how ignorant he really was on the content of the now-stayed CFR's. And what was the charade about Mike Black pledging at the end to uphold the obligations of the BIA as trustee? How ridiculous considering the BIA is constantly violating its fiduciary responsibilities on a daily basis.
DeleteDid you catch before the meeting started how Mr. Big was so buddy buddy with the BIA and how friendly he was with that Phillips woman and Mike Black? Looked like old home week to me at our economic expense.
DeleteGranted I wasn't able to listen to the entire thing but what I did hear I am still not sure what the point of all that was. We stated our thoughts and concerns and the BIA seemingly ignored them and didn't respond to much of anything.
DeleteDid anything of substance happen in the first half, that I missed? I guess if nothing else we saw an unwashed version of what we are dealing with in Abbott, Crum and Yates.
No one pointed out that the BIA had to be tapped on the shoulder by the Chief when ENEL started digging up our minerals and using them commercially on the wind mill units for the bases. The one who brought this taking to light was Dr. Connor and then the BIA finally got out there and in gear.
DeleteBTW, it will replay from the beginning if you click on the arrow on the video --->>>
Deletehttps://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/multimedia/live-media
At least Mike Black was able to see how ugly the mood is in the Osage. Even the trooper was standing by in case it came to blows after fat head Abbott shot off his mouth and nearly got it shut for him. He's a stupid hateful little bugger isn't he? I hope he watches the video of himself to find out how totally repugnant he really is.
DeleteWe were also able to see what Cynthia has had to have the strength to bear up under. Thank you, Cynthia. We own you a King's ransom for standing in the breach and protecting us from foolish ones like Abbott, Yates and Crum.
DeleteLoved your shirt Paul. You did real good on countering the statements of Mr. Big.
DeleteWhat do we make of this?
Deletehttp://osagenews.org/en/article/2015/09/09/three-proposals-surface-sens-inhofe-and-lankford-oil-and-gas-regulation-osage/
All three of them are completely unworkable for various reasons.
DeleteRight. So I missed out what was or not said about the WIND Farms? Yes as we all predicted nothing was said that we didn't already have the answers to. Side stepping the issues. And I was quite concerned when Mike Black was confronted on many issues that he didn't have answers for..15% in revenue equals a hudred million and all he could do was just stair like a deer in headlights. He did not do his homework. And his look when expressed that the American Indian is at a disadvantage priceless.
DeleteNot to miss Minerals Council Meeting on September 11, 2015. When do we get to see this resolution written about in the article?
DeleteYou cannot operate without a contingency. As of right now it is business as usual but leaves the Question about future development out of the equation and the Permitting process needs to be reduced to 20 days and the ABB fush and wlid life have no right ti discriminate. It does not take six months to get an answer.
DeleteThank you to all the Shareholder's and Producer's thank you for attending the meeting and representing.
DeleteSonny Abbot,by his own admission, in public to several people, NEVER READ THE NEW CFRs. Unfortunately, by the time they were elected most of our council persons also had not read them. This was a question asked during the the election process at one of the rallies. Unconscionable, considering they should have read CFRs before they decided to run for office.
DeleteSenator's proposal #1-- No! If the Osage Nation government Chief hands off a personal service contract for something as simple as an Osage Nation HR policies and procedures to Jim Gray's wife for $65-75K and she then turns around to see if she can get someone from the ON Congress, who proffers such educational qualifications in HR every chance she gets, to help her get the job done properly, how the heck are the Osages going to come up with self-governance oil and gas regulations? This is like asking an infant to drive a big rig and expect it to happen. It would be in violation of the fiduciary obligation of the DOI/BIA toward the Headright owners to even let the Osage Nation government anywhere near the management and running of the OME This is sheer stupidity going in right from the top.
DeleteSenator's proposal #2 -- NO! Just as bad. A second Council? We can't even get along without constant interference with the FIRST OMC from the Chiefs from the beginning of this Osage Nation government. This is asking for double the trouble and more litigation down the road. Is the Chief planning a way to get the Osage Energy Services LLC., in there as a second council lead by Eddie Red Eagle and his merry band of wo/men? What outside experts? The ubitquitous business expert, "The Bug Man" Mark Simms? Once more, sheer stupidity going in.
Senator's proposal #3 -- NOOOO! Not even close. In case they have forgotten, there is an injunction against these new CFRs in Federal Court because they are oil and gas business destructive in Osage County in direct violation of the fiduciary obligation of the DOI/BIA to the Osage Nation and the Headright owners as the beneficiaries of the OME Trust.
Is this a joke or a form of Federal torture because we won the HPP lawsuit?
This just cannot be coming from the Senator's in the U.S. government. I can't bring myself to believe it because it's so inadequate and mindless of the reality on the ground here in Osage County.
The only option on the ground is the BIA goes back to the table on the CFRs and loses the BLM regs in total. Rolls back the new EIS and all the EAs to the current valid EIS from the 1970's until the Donalson lawsuit is settled. The DOI Secretary of the Interior, the Trustee of our OME Trust tells Fish and Wildlife to "bug off" in Osage County as before. The BIA starts issuing fines to ENEL Green for a $1,000 fine a day per each and every wind machine built until they come to heel and the DOI drops this wholly transparent Obama administration's protection of the wind farm built in Osage County and doubles the fine per day per any new wind mill built in violation of Federal law. And the DOI/BIA starts behaving in a way that promotes protection as opposed to the overregulation of the oil and gas business in a mature oil field for the benefit of the Headright owners to whom they owe a fiduciary obligation.
@1:26 The Trooper had to tell me to calm down after Sonny Abbott spoke and stated like a fool that the Operators are not hurt yet because the CFRs are not in affect. I for one lost a job due to the BIA shutting down the Osage and when this so called MAN Abbott told my brother a Shareholder/Operators to get out of the oil & gas industry and open up a restaurant he showed his distain for the Oil industry if you ask me. We are third generation oilmen and we will continue to produce oil and gas, it may not be in the Osage anymore but we are oilmen. In the meantime the "Revard's" are fighting mad and will continue to speak out against the Fed's and the OMC when they fall short of their duties.
DeleteMr. Revard this is not indicative of how someones behavior should be nor reflect how we all feel. Lisa Myers
DeleteI second that.
DeleteI also found it interesting that it sure appeared that Mr. Crum and Superintendent Phillips rehearsed their exchange. This was totally staged and she knew what questions Crum was going to ask. He did his best to try to show that she is competent and knows what she's talking about. How is it the Shareholders are not demanding that Yates and Crum resign their position? Mind blowing how the Osages put up with this type of behavior.
DeleteMr. Revard they wil be replaced this coming election. A performance that gets a big F.
DeleteI second THAT!
DeleteCrum is a finger puppet for the Superintendent and the BIA. I surprised he didn't have a hat and cane for a tap dance.
DeleteMr. Revard. You opinion matters because we the Shareholder's are directly impacted so indirectly you our protecting our interest as wel. He drills we make money he doesn't we all lose out. In the future it is a goal of mine as you know, to foster better Communications with our Producers and that we no longer have to speak in terms of speak out. to, as we need to come to a consensus, a common ground of communication. This needs to happen.
Delete"Crum is a finger puppet for the Superintendent and the BIA. I surprised he didn't have a hat and cane for a tap dance." Never forget he is also a puppet for the Chief. The BIA's relationship to Crum and Crum's relationship to the Chief should be quite telling.
DeleteHe's so close to the BIA/ Chief how can he be trusted with attorney-client information about the OMC/ OPA CFR case. It would seem to me he and yates represent a potentially huge breach of our case.
The BIA holds the trust and ours is unique in that any decision or decisions less puts the ESTATE at a disadvantage. They cannot rule not in the favor of the Estate or they would be indirect conflict to the 1906 Act. All outcome must be in favor of the ESTATE whether the Agency feels otherwise. Harm has come to the Osage again..What would be more instrumental if the Senator's have taken note the problem is at a federal level and not the Osage. The Shareholder's will handle their business. If we need to construct a working Council. Meaning replacing our M.C thats down the road. But first is first. Where is the representation from the upper echelon.? Crum will be a Crumb when the Federal Courts rule in favor of the Shareholder's, that the New CFR's gave to much power to the BIA Superintendent. She cannot rule any different than not in favor for the Estate but non the less she did and she has to answer that 100 million dollar question in court. I 4hink the Court should make the Federal Government pay 400 million in damages. 98,000 dollars I am out of. Then 1 billion for the in restitution. Then maybe this Agency might get its act together. This is what the Senators should be looking at.
DeleteCan someone advise how to watch the video of today's BIA presentation. When I attempt to view the video it asked me to sign-in or log-in. I have not found a way to do this. Thanks
ReplyDeleteYes. I believe this link will work better for you:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq2mjxnWbiE
Other YouTube Videos are located at https://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/multimedia/video
DeleteApparently, the Osage Shareholders' and Osage Producers' urgency is not the BIA's emergency.
ReplyDeleteOsage producer, Paul Revard, asked what was so important that on one particular day the BIA's Superintendent deemed it necessary to shut down the permitting of all new wells and maintenance on all the existing wells. Superintendent Phillips in July, 2014 wrote the letter addressed to the producers advising that as of August, 2014 no permits will be approved for new drills and maintenance of existing wells. Mr. Revard asked what was it that made it so important to implement these restrictions on this one particular date. Director Black did not answer the question.
Director Black could not answer many of the questions posed by the Shareholders and producers and stated that they (BIA) were working on the matters being addressed. Meanwhile, the producers drowning and going under fast and the Shareholders are directly affected. The BIA is not taking into consideration the damage they have and continue to cause to the producers and Shareholders due to their over-bearing regulations.
We Shareholders and producers just received lip-service toady and were basically told to wait and be patient. We are going down fast and cannot wait on this bureaucracy to play out.
The Osage producers are, and will continue, to move to more favorable pastures (other areas outside of Osage County) but the Osage Shareholders are dependent on the production within their reservation.
It is time for a revolt! Paul Revard posed the question: what would the Superintendent do in the way of fines if the producers proceeded to maintain their wells for production without the approval of their permits. He asked if the Superintendent was required to impose a fine for such violation. The answer was no. It was up to the Superintendent to fine or not to fine. Therefor, the Superintendent could allow the producers to carry-on in a professional manner even without a permit and she did not necessarily have to fine the producers for doing so. Director Black advised against such activities. Screw him and the horse he road in on.
What a waste of time attending today's presentation. I regret having attended and, in retrospect, we should have had him address and empty room.
The producers are taking their capital elsewhere and the Shareholders need to prepare for the total demise of their mineral estate. So sad!
100 MILLION DOLLARS THUS FAR IN MISSED REVENUE. WELL I want Robin Phillips on the stand and have to explain how her actions or lack of however take the stand and try to explain her decision that is the 100 million question. This is not pennies we are talking about that the Bureau needs to answer to. They dropped the ball again. The meaning of insanity is doing the same thing over again. Get rid of Robin Philips. This needs to be looked into seriously...she is not a friend to the Estate. She is counter productive to our goals. This meeting was nothing but a show and tell. I am out 88,000. Dollars you bet I am mad as heck...
DeleteMike Black admitted in the meeting yesterday that he didn't have a problem with the 1979 EA. Then why shut the County down and require onerous permitting requirements to comply with new environmental rules when the existing ones are acceptable? Shows the contempt the BIA has for the Mineral Estate.
DeleteContempt and also shows discrimination as well.
DeleteI'm actually glad the man came into town so he can get the mood on the ground and it's ugly. It really looks from the Holly and AP Chief exchange that the BIA is in lock step with the green agenda of the Obama Administration. Black denied that they could have used Federal Marshals to stop the first wind farm that went up in the field but I'm of the belief that they still have the ability to issue fines on a daily basis shoud any business move forward without the proper Federal permitting. If ENEL had thought that they would be facing a substantial fine on a daily basis on every single wind machine they constructed and set up, I believe it would be a far different story than it is today. They certainly would issue fines if this were Federal land that they have a stewartship responsibility for but not a fiduciary obligation owed to us in a trust relationship where the loyalty, duties and responsibilities owed are far higher. 160 + acres is a lot of land to lose where production associated with the mineral rights are concerned.
DeleteENEL can go pound sand somewhere else. So why was there nothing done when the first Turbine was constructed? Yes we are different we are not Federal Public Land. The facts as they are, this is illegal taking. Take you 80,000 dollar wind turbines ENEL and put them where the sun do not shine. I believe they speed up their contruction for more than one reason. Tax credits were about to end and the fact we took them to Court..and its not just that on principal these are boondoggles. All based on an inconvenient flawed opinion. The facts as they are your not lowering the price of energy the complete opposite will happen and is. And fossil fuel will never go away. Since the M.C is qausai in charge can they not instruct the Court to level fines against them and to boot add liens against ENEL? At this point we should bypass the BIA let them handle the accounting and the regulations can be handled by a operating M.C.
Deletehttp://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/bia-director-hears-complaints-from-osage-county-oil-producers/article_74846536-a493-56aa-82af-ba6eec5ccda5.html
ReplyDeleteInteresting...
DeleteThank you Mr.Revard. I wish the Tulsa World would have not posted Mr. Abbotts comments, how disturbing his lack of knowledge was so evident, this is where his ego came in and I would have wished the Tulsa World would have ended the column with an open ended statement "why is the permitting process delayed"? Is the Osage being someones Target. It does not take 3 years to get an answer from the FISH and Wild life in regards to the ABB and it is also known they exist in other areas of the country as well, hardly endangered. In all of this at the end of the day who is responsible, the BIA.I feel like we are being targeted for example "IRS, Lois Lerner".
DeleteSonny Abbott is receiving favorable print after his despicable display? Or am I misunderstanding the intent of the author? This is a man who thinks that he will make more money for the Shareholders by killing 60% of the oil business in Osage County as a result of voluminous overweaning regulations that will put that percentage of them out of business? Does this guy need to be placed in a commitment center for those who can no longer function mentally having exhibited yesterday that he no longer has the ability to make logical rational decisions? I don't know at this point if it's a better idea to revile the guy or call the white coats to have him placed in a facility for his own protection and ours.
DeleteJust my opinion the column in the Tulsa World could have been better written. Straight Jacket lol, I called it another JRE syndrome. What I want to know is any change to any code cannot have a direct impact that would cripple the Estate and how is passing a set of rules which is plagued with bad policies inside out work for the best outcome for the Estate? Anything less would put us at a disadvantage. And Abbott wants that? This clearly is going to bite the Federal Government.
DeleteWhat is going on with the Cobell offers?
ReplyDeleteHave no idea. Check with the Osage Nation's web site.
DeleteHas anyone read the latest in the Osage News how Mike Black and Robin Phillips flet about yesterdays meeting? Great. Why was not any othe the Producers, M.C or Shareholders interviewed? And then the Chief finds out after the fact Mike Black met with the Cattle Ass. This is getting way out of control by the BIA.
ReplyDeletehttp://osagenews.org/en/article/2015/09/10/black-says-bia-will-uphold-trust-responsibility-osage-minerals-estate/
DeleteThe Osage Nation is under attack by the US Federal Government and also by the Osage County surface owners. We need to defend ourselves and fight back against this aggression. The members of our tribe need to unite for the best chance of survival. We can and must prevail, God willing.
DeleteThe world is managed by less than 500 people in many ways. Can we not say the Osage is no different? The world is a mad mad world and we the Osage have our own forms of madness. Who has the best chances of overcoming their madness,the world or the Osage. My faith is in the Osage.How,when and why should be our divine right alone.But we the Osage can not do this alone. The modern world has a lot to offer.
ReplyDeleteOsage Oil and Gas Summit dates:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.osagenation-nsn.gov/news-events/events/osage-oil-gas-summit
This thread is now closed. Go to: http://osageblog.blogspot.com/2015/09/osage-shareholder-matters-september-ii.html
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